Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?
I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.
How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.
Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.
What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.
If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.
When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.
And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.
I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters.
Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?
No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.
ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.
I just can't understand the rationale.
I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\
Dead right. In this case, as much as I don't like Berto and his huggy style, there isn't anyone better. Although, at that stage it may have been good to see Mike Jones vs Andre Berto, would have been a better fight than against Zaveck, but I'll still be happy to watch a Berto vs Zaveck match-up.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boxingbantz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?
Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:
These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.
Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...
1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14 Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia
Sorry, let me just be clear on what I think you are saying?
You think boxing has more legitimacy, and is more credible if Randall Bailey or Sebastion Lujon were to be a world champion than Andre Berto?
Fuck me sideways, the mindset of an internet boxing fan is something I will NEVER understand. :-\
I can only assume you guys don't actually follow the sport at all and have no idea about these guys other than grabbing a link from a website.
Berto a world class, top level championship calibre fighter and you think it serves boxing better to give a journeyman a shot at a title instead?
You are a mentalist. ;D
If Berto is world class then he can WORK his way back to a title thats how ranking should be. You get your shot at the champ or defend you strip and if you lose you go DOWN the ranking and have to work you way up. If we were to just give former champions title shots then there would never be any new fighters coming through into the lime light.
Your starting to sound like the WBA with there love triangle of Ruiz, Valuev, Barrett.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?
I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.
How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.
Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.
What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.
If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.
When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.
And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.
I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters.
Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?
No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.
ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.
I just can't understand the rationale.
I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\
The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?
I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.
How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.
Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.
What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.
If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.
When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.
And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.
I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters.
Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?
No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.
ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.
I just can't understand the rationale.
I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\
The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)
Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.
The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
I dont think it is BS. Berto is a talented young fighter with one loss coming off a great performance against Ortiz. The guy has a fan friendly style.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mattboxingfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boxingbantz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?
Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:
These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.
Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...
1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14 Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia
Sorry, let me just be clear on what I think you are saying?
You think boxing has more legitimacy, and is more credible if Randall Bailey or Sebastion Lujon were to be a world champion than Andre Berto?
Fuck me sideways, the mindset of an internet boxing fan is something I will NEVER understand. :-\
I can only assume you guys don't actually follow the sport at all and have no idea about these guys other than grabbing a link from a website.
Berto a world class, top level championship calibre fighter and you think it serves boxing better to give a journeyman a shot at a title instead?
You are a mentalist. ;D
If Berto is world class then he can WORK his way back to a title thats how ranking should be. You get your shot at the champ or defend you strip and if you lose you go DOWN the ranking and have to work you way up. If we were to just give former champions title shots then there would never be any new fighters coming through into the lime light.
Your starting to sound like the WBA with there love triangle of Ruiz, Valuev, Barrett.
If you are a challenger and lose then fair enough you would have a point. But Berto was a champion with 5 defenses already to his credit.
Top championship level fighters should be fighting for championships. our rules make no sense whatsover.
I presume you were also opposed to the following matchups.
Sergio Martinez fighting for the middleweight championship after a draw and a loss. He drew with Cintron, then lost to Paul Williams then fought Pavlik for the world title. Despite being considered by majority consent as one of the top 2 p4p fighters in the world you regard him as a phony champion I presume?
Juan Manuel Marquez lost every round to Flotd Mayweather then fought a lightweight title rematch against Juan Diaz. A travesty I'm sure you will agree.
Carl Froch lost his title against Kessler, then won it back in his very next fight against Artur Abraham. Surely Sakio Bika or Allen Green should have a had a shot :confused:
Matthew Macklin just lost to Felix Sturm in Germany. They are going to fight a rematch. Again dead wrong, Macklin lost he should fuck off.
Lets go back a bit and look at some more famous histroical fights...
George Foreman loses a title challenge to Tommy Morrison, then gets an immediate second shot to Michael Moorer. He made history by becoming the oldest champion in boxing history but that should never have been allowed to happen.
Roberto Duran lost a world title fight to Marvin Hagler then fought for another against Thomas Hearns in his next fight and lost that too! Waste of space.
Hearns himself was knocked out in 3 rounds by Iran Barkley and fought for another title in his next fight.
Ray Robinson lost a bunch of world title fights against Turpin, Fulmner, Bobo Olsen and was always given an immediate shot at redemption. Should never have happened.
Your point of view is skewed and bizarre. You'd rather a journeyman had a chance to win a world title than the 3 rd rated fighter in the division, whose last fight was a fight of the year contender barnburner and is a former world champ just about to enter his physical prime?
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?
I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.
How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.
Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.
What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.
If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.
When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.
And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.
I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters.
Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?
No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.
ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.
I just can't understand the rationale.
I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\
The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)
Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.
The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.
Nope. The quality of the fight is more important than any ALPHABET TITLE attached to it.
Legitimate championship fights are always the top of the food chain in the sport.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMacMagician
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?
I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.
How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.
Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.
What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.
If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.
When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.
And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.
I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters.
Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?
No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.
ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.
I just can't understand the rationale.
I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\
The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)
Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.
The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.
Nope. The quality of the fight is more important than any ALPHABET TITLE attached to it.
Legitimate championship fights are always the top of the food chain in the sport.
That's right.
60-yead-old George Foreman vs Lou 'journeyman' Savarese is far more significant in the history of boxing than Holyfield-Bowe, Holyfield-Tyson, because it was for the lineal title. Hilarious.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boxingbantz
Lou DiBella has confirmed it.
It's fucking bullshit. Coming off of a loss and straight into another title shot for another belt.
I swear, I couldn't care less if they just took away all of the belts in boxing. They have become a mockery.
Simple. When a fighter is annointed the next great "_____" hope.... the networks will push that agenda until the guy gets some kind of belt. Rankings and win-loss records be damned.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Berto only has lost once not like this happens every day hey Tito do think Lopez should get another title shot i mean he lost to a guy with fucking 11 loses and was and also got koed in the fight.
Re: More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th
Berto will continue to get publicity because he's Haymon's boy. It's a no-brainer. On the other hand, I'm not mad at the Zaveck fight because they are both legit top ten welterweights and I'm curious to see how Berto looks against a decent welterweight after that loss to Ortiz.
The frustration here about Berto is that HBO repeatedly paid him 7 figures to fight nobody's. Then when his competition stepped up, he was handed his first defeat. So, to see him back on HBO with a big fight against another relatively soft touch is a bit draining.
