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Originally Posted by Cressa121
If Martinez is too big to go down, and is looking for the big fights then why not move up and fight Bute? That guy is crying out for a decent opponent, having to make do to with B listers like Jesse Brinkley and Brian Magee as all the other top guys are tied up in the Super Six.
That's the same thing that be said about ever Floyd Mayweather fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner
To be fair to Martinez, why don't they just allow him to keep his weight while he fights Pacquiao and Mayweather at the same time?
So, let Martinez just fight someone his own size. Or he can challenge someone two weight divisions up to a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant LiveThat's the same thing that be said about ever Floyd Mayweather fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner
I understand wanting to fight Floyd and Pacman. But if Martinez can't get neither, why is he not chasing the champions at 154?
Alvarez vs Martinez
K9 vs Martinez
Cotto vs Martinez
Margarito vs Martinez
Trout vs Martinez
And I know JccJr don't want it, call him out!!! Martinez needs to promo himself.
The fight to be made is
Martinez vs Andre Dirrell at 164
But the one thing in supporting Martinez is that he has spent most of his career at lower weights. If he is truly able to fight at 150 then bring it on, but I just don't think he can make that without killing himself. Going down to 150 is far less evil than Mayweather fighting Marquez heavy and then refusing the CW.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerSo, let Martinez just fight someone his own size. Or he can challenge someone two weight divisions up to a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant LiveThat's the same thing that be said about ever Floyd Mayweather fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner
I'd like to see that. Instead of asking someone that's already been through 8 weight classes to move up again, he should go up himself if he wants bigger and better fights. There's plenty of great opponents for him at super middleweight, aside from Bute he could fight the Kessler/Stieglitz winner, Dirrell if he ever returns and then there's Froch and Ward too. I've probably missed someone out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121
If Martinez is too big to go down, and is looking for the big fights then why not move up and fight Bute? That guy is crying out for a decent opponent, having to make do to with B listers like Jesse Brinkley and Brian Magee as all the other top guys are tied up in the Super Six.
Really I don't know why he doesn't consider it. It's a lot more realistic then asking Pacquiao to come up again.
Imo it's because he's not a true middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121I'd like to see that. Instead of asking someone that's already been through 8 weight classes to move up again, he should go up himself if he wants bigger and better fights. There's plenty of great opponents for him at super middleweight, aside from Bute he could fight the Kessler/Stieglitz winner, Dirrell if he ever returns and then there's Froch and Ward too. I've probably missed someone out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121
If Martinez is too big to go down, and is looking for the big fights then why not move up and fight Bute? That guy is crying out for a decent opponent, having to make do to with B listers like Jesse Brinkley and Brian Magee as all the other top guys are tied up in the Super Six.
Really I don't know why he doesn't consider it. It's a lot more realistic then asking Pacquiao to come up again.
He's never weighed in at 160. He was 157 against Paul Williams and just over 153 against Kermit Cintron.
The idea that he would be a corpse at 150 is just plain untrue imo. Everyone judges off the nightmare experience of Oscar De La Hoya and assumes it's impossible to drop weight, but if he's serious about it it wouldn't be that hard for him, else he wouldn't offer to do it.
There are numerous examples of fighters able to move down. Shane Mosley and Zab Judah have done it fine in the last couple of years. Kenny Florian in the UFC dropped down to 145 lb featherweight division in his last fight and looked awesome, totally dominating Diego Nunes and is now in line for a title shot there. He has fought in 4 weight classes in the UFC now and actually started out at 180 lbs. He's 35 as well.
Martinez is a small middleweight, he moved up because of the opportunity. There are no same day weigh in's any more, he knows he can move down and that's why he's pushing for it. Conversely, he obviously knows he's too small to move up, which is why he never makes any noise about the stars above him.
Martinez has fought as low as welter, although not in years. Remember he only stepped up to middle to fight Williams when Pavlik/ Williams came apart. Its not like he had to move up because he was having trouble making weight! If he thinks he can get down to 150 for a huge money fight with Pacquaio then all power to him
The reason Martinez is looking for the big fights is because he wants a big pay day. Does Bute offer a bigger pay day than what Martinez could get now at or around where he would normally fit in, which is 154-160? Given what Kessler, Pavlik, and Johnson have said, I doubt it. I imagine Martinez is getting paid high six figures or $1M or there abouts for his HBO fights now and I believe Bute is paying Johnson $500k and offered Pavlik, $1.1M. Going up to fight a bigger guy for the same amount of money doesn't make sense from a financial viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121
If Martinez is too big to go down, and is looking for the big fights then why not move up and fight Bute? That guy is crying out for a decent opponent, having to make do to with B listers like Jesse Brinkley and Brian Magee as all the other top guys are tied up in the Super Six.
In addition, Martinez from when he was 25-30 was a welterweight/junior middleweight. In the next couple of years, he grew into a full junior middleweight, and now at 35, I believe really he is at his best between 154 and 160.
However, he has to get over the idea of fighting Pacquiao because it will never happen. Pacquiao was most hurt after the Margarito fight, which was at 150. I don't see why he would go back up to 150 to face a tougher opponent in Martinez.
I actually think the best fight for Sergio Martinez right now given $ as the main incentive is the winner of the Cotto v. Margarito fight at 154. Big pay day at a division Martinez can fight in. Will Top Rank let that happen? Doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe reason Martinez is looking for the big fights is because he wants a big pay day. Does Bute offer a bigger pay day than what Martinez could get now at or around where he would normally fit in, which is 154-160? Given what Kessler, Pavlik, and Johnson have said, I doubt it. I imagine Martinez is getting paid high six figures or $1M or there abouts for his HBO fights now and I believe Bute is paying Johnson $500k and offered Pavlik, $1.1M. Going up to fight a bigger guy for the same amount of money doesn't make sense from a financial viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121
If Martinez is too big to go down, and is looking for the big fights then why not move up and fight Bute? That guy is crying out for a decent opponent, having to make do to with B listers like Jesse Brinkley and Brian Magee as all the other top guys are tied up in the Super Six.
In addition, Martinez from when he was 25-30 was a welterweight/junior middleweight. In the next couple of years, he grew into a full junior middleweight, and now at 35, I believe really he is at his best between 154 and 160.
However, he has to get over the idea of fighting Pacquiao because it will never happen. Pacquiao was most hurt after the Margarito fight, which was at 150. I don't see why he would go back up to 150 to face a tougher opponent in Martinez.
I actually think the best fight for Sergio Martinez right now given $ as the main incentive is the winner of the Cotto v. Margarito fight at 154. Big pay day at a division Martinez can fight in. Will Top Rank let that happen? Doubt it.
I just don't see Manny vs Martinez as a viable fight really. Manny is too small to fight a guy of that calibre. Margarito's size was offset by Manny's vastly superior skill set but in Martinez he's fighting a top level fighter and one with a sizeable weight advantage.
Martinez vs Floyd however is a far more legitimate matchup. Floyd has won a legitimate title at 154 lbs and he's been the world's best welter since 2005. A 154lb matchup with Martinez would be a sick fight and Floyd's toughest test to date. But we know he won't take it.
Incidently, Martinez would make much more than Johnson and Pavlik for fighting Bute. He's the undisputed middleweight champion, p4p number 3 in the world. It's a much bigger fight and if some catchweight of say 165 could be arranged, maybe one or even both belts could be on the line. It could be a great fight, with the winner to fight Andre Ward after he wins the Super Six. Of course Papa Hopkins would be all over that too.
But I happen to think Martinez would be as disadvantaged in those fights as Manny would be against him and therefore don't think of them as fair matchups.
Floyd vs Martinez at 154 however. That is a dream fight.
Yeah the winner of Cotto Margarito would be a very viable matchup as well.
It's a logical plan. Move back down, fight the winner of that to get a belt. Then challenge Floyd with it.
Yep thats the best path for both Floyd & Martinez if neither can get it on with PacQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Exactly. If Margarito won, I could see it happen, but if Cotto won, I doubt it happens. Then again, with Margarito, you would have a good back story because Margarito beat Sergio in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
160lbs Champ calling out 147 Champ at 150.
175 Champ Bernard Hopkins is older than Martinez
Bernard Hopkins vs Sergio Martinez at 165lbs - Now thats a better fight
Pac UD Martinez at 150 but might not walk again until a week or if ever.