Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
this fight IMO is just as bad and just as disappointing as Mosley/Pacquiao and Pacquiao/Clottey
No surprise there. Guerrero isn't a popular fighter and not that well known. So therefore he must not be that good a fighter, right?
He's a good fighter, but he's much smaller than Mayweather and I don't think he'll pose much of a threat. I also think that it will be something of a boring style match-up, but maybe Mayweather will press the action.
my point exactly, I already said it's more of a knock on Mayweather rather than on Guerrero, Robert has better fights for him at 135 and 140 rather than face a bigger and technically better Mayweather 2 divisions north, he should just fight Rios at 140 but leave it to VD to try and make his dude the victim
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
this fight IMO is just as bad and just as disappointing as Mosley/Pacquiao and Pacquiao/Clottey
No surprise there. Guerrero isn't a popular fighter and not that well known. So therefore he must not be that good a fighter, right?
VD - you may be confused. The problems with this fight aren't Guerrero's fault. He should make his $ and no one will blame him for taking the fight. The problem is that he isn't close to good enough or proven to face the top p4p fighter in the world 12 pounds north of his present division. Guerrero isn't even ranked in Mayweather's own division or the division below him, and frankly, with wins at lightweight against Kastidis, Escobedo, and Casamayor (where he was put down once), he hasn't exactly done very much at lightweight either. All together, there is nothing at all to suggest he is ready for Mayweather at 147.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
I agree with this 100%.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
this fight IMO is just as bad and just as disappointing as Mosley/Pacquiao and Pacquiao/Clottey
No surprise there. Guerrero isn't a popular fighter and not that well known. So therefore he must not be that good a fighter, right?
He's a very good fighter. A very good lightweight. Who has been out with an injury and surgery for the past year. And who has never been in the ring with a world class fighter (though there are several world class lightweight and
junior welterweight fighters I think he could beat, preferably after a tuneup).
Mayweather will end up fighting Canelo anyway, so this discussion is kind of academic.
Yes, take out the weight class discussion and the same criticisms of a fight with Guerrero exist for Canelo.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
Can you at least for one day worth of posting try and be objective? Who keeps letting Floyd get away with what crap? Has Cotto spoken up about wanting Floyd? I haven't heard shit from him..Martinez yes and I will be the first to say that's the only fight worth a damn outside of Pacquiao.
But Ortiz wasn't a gimme. Floyd sat and watched the number 3 Welterweight at the time Berto take on Ortiz. Obviously Money had Berto in his sights but rightly took on the winner who looked BEAST in that fight Ortiz. A man who is 3rd best Welter in the world, weighs 160 on fight night and a southpaw who apparently Floyd likes to avoid is a gimme? Gtfo of here, seriously...we'll see for sure about Ortiz in the rematch but at the time it was a good fight to make
If he fights Guerrero though, i'm with you - and nobody will let him off the hook and rightly so. Its a bullshit fight at this stage
Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz.
Mosley was 18 months out and ancient
Marquez tiny compared to him and even more unproven at the weight
Ortiz....who?
And now rock hard Guerrero. Mayweather does indeed get away with the smallest hint of crap.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
Can you at least for one day worth of posting try and be objective? Who keeps letting Floyd get away with what crap? Has Cotto spoken up about wanting Floyd? I haven't heard shit from him..Martinez yes and I will be the first to say that's the only fight worth a damn outside of Pacquiao.
But Ortiz wasn't a gimme. Floyd sat and watched the number 3 Welterweight at the time Berto take on Ortiz. Obviously Money had Berto in his sights but rightly took on the winner who looked BEAST in that fight Ortiz. A man who is 3rd best Welter in the world, weighs 160 on fight night and a southpaw who apparently Floyd likes to avoid is a gimme? Gtfo of here, seriously...we'll see for sure about Ortiz in the rematch but at the time it was a good fight to make
If he fights Guerrero though, i'm with you - and nobody will let him off the hook and rightly so. Its a bullshit fight at this stage
Alt - I'll be objective. Ortiz was a gimme. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. In your response to Diane, you explained well why Ortiz was given the fight with Floyd and why Ortiz wasn't a poor choice in opponent: (1) he defeated the #3 ranked welterweight in Berto and (2) he was the highest ranked welterweight outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are missing a crucial step in logic: those facts don't equate to Ortiz being good competition or a challenge for Mayweather. This is not the same as stating that Ortiz was a bad choice considering the options. It wasn't as good as Martinez or Pacquiao or other fighters above his weight class, but it was an easy fight. There was no daring to be great in choosing Ortiz as an opponent. I hate to be vindictive, but I said as much prior to the fight.
Quite frankly, it should have been called out by more of the boxing public. The outcome was obvious to me much like the outcome was with Mayweather's fight against Hatton at 147 and his fight with Marquez at 147. Ortiz drew with Lamont Peterson and quit against Marcos Maidana. These losses were impossible to ignore; they don't just disappear with a win against Berto. I'm as big of a fan of Maidana and Peterson (and Peterson looked improved against Khan last time out) as anyone, but not being able to defeat either one division below Mayweather is indicative of the fact that Ortiz would be way out of his depth against Mayweather.
Can we agree that if Floyd faces Alvarez at 54 or 50, he should be really be facing Sergio Martinez, and that the Guerrero fight is a joke?
I believe what people want from Floyd that it appears he has failed to give in the past is striving for greatness. Ask yourself what opponent out there would be a challenge for Floyd in or around his weight class?
Of course, there may be a point where there aren't any - see the Klitschko connundrum. However, unlike Manny and Floyd, the Klitschkos fight every single person put in front of them. There has not been one person either hasn't seen. Not one. For Manny, it's Floyd, for Floyd there have been quite a number of fighters that for whatever reason, promoter politics, money wasn't right etc., he hasn't seen.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
Can you at least for one day worth of posting try and be objective? Who keeps letting Floyd get away with what crap? Has Cotto spoken up about wanting Floyd? I haven't heard shit from him..Martinez yes and I will be the first to say that's the only fight worth a damn outside of Pacquiao.
But Ortiz wasn't a gimme. Floyd sat and watched the number 3 Welterweight at the time Berto take on Ortiz. Obviously Money had Berto in his sights but rightly took on the winner who looked BEAST in that fight Ortiz. A man who is 3rd best Welter in the world, weighs 160 on fight night and a southpaw who apparently Floyd likes to avoid is a gimme? Gtfo of here, seriously...we'll see for sure about Ortiz in the rematch but at the time it was a good fight to make
If he fights Guerrero though, i'm with you - and nobody will let him off the hook and rightly so. Its a bullshit fight at this stage
Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz.
Mosley was 18 months out and ancient
Marquez tiny compared to him and even more unproven at the weight
Ortiz....who?
And now rock hard Guerrero. Mayweather does indeed get away with the smallest hint of crap.
I will again call you out on your forgetfulness Miles/Gandalf whatever you wanna go by these days. You said you would have immense respect for Mayweather if he signed the Mosley fight..All of you fuckin did. "Oh he's ducking Mosley".."he'll never sign to fight him".."I'll believe it when the bell rings"...he did and whooped him..now he was "ancient". Pleeease GTFO of here with that shit..some of you can't even hear yourselves. It's embarrassing.:-\
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
I'm a fan of Guerrero, I really am, but if this fight happens, or a fight with Canelo, NO ONE should be happy about it. Neither of these guys is ready to step into the ring with Mayweather. Plus, Mayweather just had a gimme with Ortiz, and should be stepping up to the plate himself. It's ridiculous that everyone keeps letting him get away with this crap.
Obviously a fight with Pac isn't going to happen, so the only 2 guys Mayweather should be fighting is Martinez or Cotto. They are guys that would actually be a challenge for him, and are guys who have earned the right to a big money fight.
Can you at least for one day worth of posting try and be objective? Who keeps letting Floyd get away with what crap? Has Cotto spoken up about wanting Floyd? I haven't heard shit from him..Martinez yes and I will be the first to say that's the only fight worth a damn outside of Pacquiao.
But Ortiz wasn't a gimme. Floyd sat and watched the number 3 Welterweight at the time Berto take on Ortiz. Obviously Money had Berto in his sights but rightly took on the winner who looked BEAST in that fight Ortiz. A man who is 3rd best Welter in the world, weighs 160 on fight night and a southpaw who apparently Floyd likes to avoid is a gimme? Gtfo of here, seriously...we'll see for sure about Ortiz in the rematch but at the time it was a good fight to make
If he fights Guerrero though, i'm with you - and nobody will let him off the hook and rightly so. Its a bullshit fight at this stage
Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz.
Mosley was 18 months out and ancient
Marquez tiny compared to him and even more unproven at the weight
Ortiz....who?
And now rock hard Guerrero. Mayweather does indeed get away with the smallest hint of crap.
I will again call you out on your forgetfulness Miles/Gandalf whatever you wanna go by these days. You said you would have immense respect for Mayweather if he signed the Mosley fight..All of you fuckin did. "Oh he's ducking Mosley".."he'll never sign to fight him".."I'll believe it when the bell rings"...he did and whooped him..now he was "ancient". Pleeease GTFO of here with that shit..some of you can't even hear yourselves. It's embarrassing.:-\
Co-sign.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz.
Mosley was 18 months out and ancient OR he was coming off of a big win against Margarito in which he annihilated him and was letting his hands go etc
Marquez tiny compared to him and even more unproven at the weight OR You mean the Mexican legend that Floyd took as WARM-UP after 2 years off? In the same weight where Maquez gave Pacquiao all types of hell?
Ortiz....who? OR Victor Ortiz, the number 3 ranked Welterweight in the world at the time. You know who he is..
And now rock hard Guerrero. Mayweather does indeed get away with the smallest hint of crap. OR he ain't fighting Guerrero, watch.
See above for alternatives...
and Rantacrat, if you read my post I have already said the only fight worth a damn now is Martinez or Pac. That's the problem - Like you said, nobody will cut him a break unless the fight is Pac. Trust me, if he beats Martinez, Martinez was weight drained. Just like every other fight that Floyd was supposed to lose but the goalposts were moved when he went through them like a hot knife through butter. Meh..You lot will never be happy bottom line. It's even funny the excuses already coming out for his future victory against Pac. I hope at least the general public will remember him as deservedly one of the greatest of all time.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
this fight IMO is just as bad and just as disappointing as Mosley/Pacquiao and Pacquiao/Clottey
No surprise there. Guerrero isn't a popular fighter and not that well known. So therefore he must not be that good a fighter, right?
He's a good fighter, but he's much smaller than Mayweather and I don't think he'll pose much of a threat. I also think that it will be something of a boring style match-up, but maybe Mayweather will press the action.
Like I said before I rather see Mayweather fight either Pacquiao or Martinez first. But obviously that ain't happening. It's easy to throw out a bunch of names and say fight them. But that just shows ones true ignorance on how the sport works. Some of the names I read mentioned are just dumb and make no sense.
Victor Ortiz & Andre Berto: Ortiz-Berto fight in February. There first fight was a brutal war. Good chance the rematch will be the same. There is no way either fighter would be ready to fight in May. To ask Mayweather (who already is way to inactive) to wait on them is unrealistic. Super Star fighters don't wait on opponents.
Miguel Cotto and Tim Bradley: Look at the trouble Mayweather has had dealing with Top Rank regarding a Pacquiao fight. No way he's gonna bother going through all that for Cotto or Bradley?
Marcus Maidana: People already crying about Guerrero. Madinana would be an even bigger mismatch than a Guerrero fight would be. Jesus Christ the man was bothered by Erik Morales hand speed. Yet some think he'll do better Guerrero?
Lamont Peterson & Erislandy Lara: I saw these names mentioned today. So now Floyd needs to go knocking on doors to get a fight? Guerrero has shown he wants the fight. When the fuck has Peterson or Lara ever, even mentioned they want to face Mayweather? They shown no interest what's so ever. And neither one is even close to big enough for Mayweather to chase.
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
this fight IMO is just as bad and just as disappointing as Mosley/Pacquiao and Pacquiao/Clottey
No surprise there. Guerrero isn't a popular fighter and not that well known. So therefore he must not be that good a fighter, right?
He's a good fighter, but he's much smaller than Mayweather and I don't think he'll pose much of a threat. I also think that it will be something of a boring style match-up, but maybe Mayweather will press the action.
Like I said before I rather see Mayweather fight either Pacquiao or Martinez first. But obviously that ain't happening. It's easy to throw out a bunch of names and say fight them. But that just shows ones true ignorance on how the sport works. Some of the names I read mentioned are just dumb and make no sense.
Victor Ortiz & Andre Berto: Ortiz-Berto fight in February. There first fight was a brutal war. Good chance the rematch will be the same. There is no way either fighter would be ready to fight in May. To ask Mayweather (who already is way to inactive) to wait on them is unrealistic. Super Star fighters don't wait on opponents.
Miguel Cotto and Tim Bradley: Look at the trouble Mayweather has had dealing with Top Rank regarding a Pacquiao fight. No way he's gonna bother going through all that for Cotto or Bradley?
Marcus Maidana: People already crying about Guerrero. Madinana would be an even bigger mismatch than a Guerrero fight would be. Jesus Christ the man was bothered by Erik Morales hand speed. Yet some think he'll do better Guerrero?
Lamont Peterson & Erislandy Lara: I saw these names mentioned today. So now Floyd needs to go knocking on doors to get a fight? Guerrero has shown he wants the fight. When the fuck has Peterson or Lara ever, even mentioned they want to face Mayweather? They shown no interest what's so ever. And neither one is even close to big enough for Mayweather to chase.
the only other name that schaefer has thrown out is Canelo, who IMO is a better opponent than Guerrero, since at least he's bigger than floyd. (neither guy is better, and guerrero is way too small and coming off a long injury layoff to boot.)
Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz.
Mosley was 18 months out and ancient OR he was coming off of a big win against Margarito in which he annihilated him and was letting his hands go etc
Marquez tiny compared to him and even more unproven at the weight OR You mean the Mexican legend that Floyd took as WARM-UP after 2 years off? In the same weight where Maquez gave Pacquiao all types of hell?
Ortiz....who? OR Victor Ortiz, the number 3 ranked Welterweight in the world at the time. You know who he is..
And now rock hard Guerrero. Mayweather does indeed get away with the smallest hint of crap. OR he ain't fighting Guerrero, watch.
See above for alternatives...
and Rantacrat, if you read my post I have already said the only fight worth a damn now is Martinez or Pac. That's the problem - Like you said, nobody will cut him a break unless the fight is Pac. Trust me, if he beats Martinez, Martinez was weight drained. Just like every other fight that Floyd was supposed to lose but the goalposts were moved when he went through them like a hot knife through butter. Meh..You lot will never be happy bottom line. It's even funny the excuses already coming out for his future victory against Pac. I hope at least the general public will remember him as deservedly one of the greatest of all time.
I believe I criticize Floyd the same as I criticize any other fighter that steps in the ring. If I criticize him more, it's only because he is higher profile than other boxers. Objectively, I believe there are reasons to be critical of Mayweather's career. I'm sorry but I do. As great as Floyd Mayweather's talent is, throughout his career, he's missed opportunities to prove himself as one of the greatest of all-time in terms of legacy. There are just enough fighters he's missed during his career path to prevent him from breaking into that top echelon of all-time greatness. We can agree to disagree. I have also been critical of Manny Pacquiao in the past and I actually am one of the few that can appreciate both boxers.
I also try and be as critical of my current favorite fighters as I am to other boxers. For example, I'm a huge fan of Sergio Martinez and I believe there are reasons to be critical of his recent desire to face Chavez Jr. I don't think defeating Chavez Jr. does much for him other than give him a big pay day. Similarly, while I'm also a big fan of Lucian Bute, I completely admit that until he faces Carl Froch or Mikkel Kessler (because Ward won't face him now) he remains unproven. Tim Bradley, another one of my favorite fighters, ducked Amir Khan. I can't deny that fact just because I'm a fan. Accordingly, I like to think of myself as even-handed. I implore you to call me out if I ever allow my bias to cloud objectivity.
Back to the example of Sergio Martinez, it's often tough for me to come to grips with the fact that boxing is a business first and foremost. I would be naive to think that they fight for their legacy and not for the $. Sergio wants Chavez Jr. because it's not a risky fight and he can make more money fighting him than other fighters at his weight class + it increases his profile among Mexican fight fans. I get it. Floyd chose May 5th because it is Cinco De Mayo. He is negotiating fights with Guerrero/Alvarez, not Martinez, because they are of Mexican background and easier fights. Risk/reward. We can all agree with that. He didn't fight Cotto or Margarito probably because they are Arum fighters and they hate eachother and because he could make more money fighting Hatton. It's a business. It's tough to accept sometimes, but that's the bottom line.
