I blame Jinkee Pacquiao for this fiasco!

I don't have a record. I won the golden gloves in the mid 70's in my Province and never pursued boxing.Born a wrestler.

That is irrelevant. You cant cop out in a fight at this level over lifestyle. Shit or get off the pot.

I blame Marquez gloves. I mean, it was hiding his fists and therefore Pacquiao couldn't see them coming.

What a stupid argument. The idea that you stop womanizing and you get knocked out. The idea that you stop gambling and thus get knocked out. The idea that you renew vows to your wife and consequently get knocked out. I mean, where on earth does a logic like that come from? Manny was winning the fight until he got too reckless. He built into the notion that he had to be more aggresive and leave no doubts and that is what knocked him out.

By all accounts he had a very good camp and was in a good place. Blaming his wife? Who on earth are you to blame his wife? Manny was to blame. End. Of. Discussion.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

What a stupid argument. The idea that you stop womanizing and you get knocked out. The idea that you stop gambling and thus get knocked out. The idea that you renew vows to your wife and consequently get knocked out. I mean, where on earth does a logic like that come from? Manny was winning the fight until he got too reckless. He built into the notion that he had to be more aggresive and leave no doubts and that is what knocked him out.

By all accounts he had a very good camp and was in a good place. Blaming his wife? Who on earth are you to blame his wife? Manny was to blame. End. Of. Discussion.

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Yes it is a pathetic excuse. And JMM won fair and square. But don't forget plenty of fans of other boxers, like for example Hatton fans also used the many excuses of " moving up in welterweight (floyd fight), weight drain (pac fight), Joe Cortez (Floyd fight), partying lifestyle (both fights), Floyd Mayweather Sr. didn't properly train Hatton (pac fight)" and a myriad of other excuses on why Hatton lost to Floyd and Manny. Sounds familiar?

So what does this mean? Fanboys of fighters will always use excuses.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

What a stupid argument. The idea that you stop womanizing and you get knocked out. The idea that you stop gambling and thus get knocked out. The idea that you renew vows to your wife and consequently get knocked out. I mean, where on earth does a logic like that come from? Manny was winning the fight until he got too reckless. He built into the notion that he had to be more aggresive and leave no doubts and that is what knocked him out.

By all accounts he had a very good camp and was in a good place. Blaming his wife? Who on earth are you to blame his wife? Manny was to blame. End. Of. Discussion.

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Yes it is a pathetic excuse. And JMM won fair and square. But don't forget plenty of fans of other boxers, like for example Hatton fans also used the many excuses of " moving up in welterweight (floyd fight), weight drain (pac fight), Joe Cortez (Floyd fight), partying lifestyle (both fights), Floyd Mayweather Sr. didn't properly train Hatton (pac fight)" and a myriad of other excuses on why Hatton lost to Floyd and Manny. Sounds familiar?

So what does this mean? Fanboys of fighters will always use excuses.

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I say yes and no to the points regarding the Hatton/Floyd fight. Cortez was a very obvious factor and took away a bogus point and Hatton was moving up in weight to fight Mayweather at a weight he had looked dubious at. Those are observable facts. Regarding all the other arguments though and even the last point concerning weight, Hatton has only himself to blame. We cannot blame his girlfriend for any of it.

Mind you, they are all far better reasons than to blame it on Jinkee Pac. If something goes wrong and you are the cause then you are responsible. Nobody told Hatton to fight Pacquiao like a plonker and likewise, nobody told Manny to leave himself completely open either.

A fighter at that level needs to take self responsibility for eventually takes place in that ring. Pac made no excuses and I respect him for that.

Yeah, because it clearly cant be that you win some and lose some and at the end of the day everybody is human

Obviously that would be ludicrous reasoning

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

What a stupid argument. The idea that you stop womanizing and you get knocked out. The idea that you stop gambling and thus get knocked out. The idea that you renew vows to your wife and consequently get knocked out. I mean, where on earth does a logic like that come from? Manny was winning the fight until he got too reckless. He built into the notion that he had to be more aggresive and leave no doubts and that is what knocked him out.

By all accounts he had a very good camp and was in a good place. Blaming his wife? Who on earth are you to blame his wife? Manny was to blame. End. Of. Discussion.

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Yes it is a pathetic excuse. And JMM won fair and square. But don't forget plenty of fans of other boxers, like for example Hatton fans also used the many excuses of " moving up in welterweight (floyd fight), weight drain (pac fight), Joe Cortez (Floyd fight), partying lifestyle (both fights), Floyd Mayweather Sr. didn't properly train Hatton (pac fight)" and a myriad of other excuses on why Hatton lost to Floyd and Manny. Sounds familiar?

So what does this mean? Fanboys of fighters will always use excuses.

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What a dick. Hatton has nothing to do with it. The exact lifestyle supposedly abandoned by Manny and responsible for his loss was how Ricky lived between fights when he lost. It's boxing, people get knocked out, particularly come forward aggressive fighters who have inflicted the same fate on others. You live by the sword you die by the sword. As soon as you start using your same old fanboys rant you just sound as bitter as those you seek to mock. Sound familiar? Give it a rest.

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Originally Posted by christianshreve

This is a thread within a thread. It is also serious, as most of us fight junkies are just expressing ourselves in these links.
The allegation that a woman gets a fighter hurt or killed is an old one. Stallone featured it in Rocky 2, and there are a few who remember what I'm about to recount.
In 1982, Alexis Arguello was trying to win his 4th world championship against Aaron Pryor.
As the story goes, Arguello's wife committed to a campaign to throw him off mentally. Allegedly, she used every trick and tactic a wife can use with a husband.
I remember a Pryor camp member saying they should have written her a check after the fight. It seemed to resemble the biblical story of a garden, 2 naked teenagers and a serpent: or the tale of succubus; or many other stories, metaphors, or similes.
Jinkee wanted her husband to return to the values most accepted in their family cultures. By public accounts he did so. That this period saw the decline and end of the 5 year p4p reign of the "pacman" may be dead on, or symbolic, or some sort of conformation bias.
I watched a fighter become such a force that his primary competition yielded the pound-for-pound title to him by forfeit. He led the game and his people with compassion and a great straight left.
Will we ever see his like again? It remain unclear.
What is clear is that we haven't seen the last of the debate around fighters and women. How could we? We just have to be careful in our allegations. The ladies are the ones who suffer us beating each others brains in, or feed us in the later stages of pugilistic dementia.
With more women becoming fighters, will we soon see roles reversed? It's already happened. Christy Martin's husband took a shot at her not long ago, and with men playing the support role, our tendencies are bound to surface.
Comments, anyone?

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This was a really good addition to this thread. There are COUNTLESS times, in real life and out of the ring, where a woman would throw a man off of his game- we can't help it if we love them?? lololol....
;D

You guys don't understand testosterone and men. Also you have been fed this liberal trash-- get a grip man, and think about human nature. The law of the jungle. The stronger man wins, women want a strong man... why do you think women prefer to stay with crap guys that beat them and cheat on them, but piss on the good guy more often than not?

Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, like always- but in general and in the main, this is what it is.
:-\

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

You guys don't understand testosterone and men. Also you have been fed this liberal trash-- get a grip man, and think about human nature. The law of the jungle. The stronger man wins, women want a strong man... why do you think women prefer to stay with crap guys that beat them and cheat on them, but piss on the good guy more often than not?

Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, like always- but in general and in the main, this is what it is.
:-\

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Erm, fear? Manipulation?

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

You guys don't understand testosterone and men. Also you have been fed this liberal trash-- get a grip man, and think about human nature. The law of the jungle. The stronger man wins, women want a strong man... why do you think women prefer to stay with crap guys that beat them and cheat on them, but piss on the good guy more often than not?

Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, like always- but in general and in the main, this is what it is.
:-\

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What a load of old poppycock. You watch too much Coronation Street.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by christianshreve

This is a thread within a thread. It is also serious, as most of us fight junkies are just expressing ourselves in these links.
The allegation that a woman gets a fighter hurt or killed is an old one. Stallone featured it in Rocky 2, and there are a few who remember what I'm about to recount.
In 1982, Alexis Arguello was trying to win his 4th world championship against Aaron Pryor.
As the story goes, Arguello's wife committed to a campaign to throw him off mentally. Allegedly, she used every trick and tactic a wife can use with a husband.
I remember a Pryor camp member saying they should have written her a check after the fight. It seemed to resemble the biblical story of a garden, 2 naked teenagers and a serpent: or the tale of succubus; or many other stories, metaphors, or similes.
Jinkee wanted her husband to return to the values most accepted in their family cultures. By public accounts he did so. That this period saw the decline and end of the 5 year p4p reign of the "pacman" may be dead on, or symbolic, or some sort of conformation bias.
I watched a fighter become such a force that his primary competition yielded the pound-for-pound title to him by forfeit. He led the game and his people with compassion and a great straight left.
Will we ever see his like again? It remain unclear.
What is clear is that we haven't seen the last of the debate around fighters and women. How could we? We just have to be careful in our allegations. The ladies are the ones who suffer us beating each others brains in, or feed us in the later stages of pugilistic dementia.
With more women becoming fighters, will we soon see roles reversed? It's already happened. Christy Martin's husband took a shot at her not long ago, and with men playing the support role, our tendencies are bound to surface.
Comments, anyone?

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Yeah Robinson was a womanizer and party kind of guy. Its a matter of our very species. The fact that its some kind of excuse for getting knocked out is ridiculous.

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I've always heard Henry Armstrong was the worst womanizer ever. A real hound who always had his nose in the air.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

You guys don't understand testosterone and men. Also you have been fed this liberal trash-- get a grip man, and think about human nature. The law of the jungle. The stronger man wins, women want a strong man... why do you think women prefer to stay with crap guys that beat them and cheat on them, but piss on the good guy more often than not?

Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, like always- but in general and in the main, this is what it is.
:-\

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Erm, fear? Manipulation?

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Low self-esteem, past/learnt experience of 'this is how relationships are', Florence Nightingale syndrome etc.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Low self-esteem, past/learnt experience of 'this is how relationships are', Florence Nightingale syndrome etc.

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I like you Missy, so really glad you got to see your fighter Marquez win. I also like to tease. But on this day rejoice, sit back, relax. I'll go make you a nice sandwich. Maybe something to drink. Milk or wine?

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Low self-esteem, past/learnt experience of 'this is how relationships are', Florence Nightingale syndrome etc.

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I like you Missy, so really glad you got to see your fighter Marquez win. I also like to tease. But on this day rejoice, sit back, relax. I'll go make you a nice sandwich. Maybe something to drink. Milk or wine?

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Have your arms and legs dropped off? Get it yourself bone idle cripple. I'll have a cup of tea while you're there