Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
16-20 based on level of opponent, top ten based on power.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
I have him just inside my top ten at #10.
Two or three wins against decent opponents (Povetkin, Pulev, Fury, Price) and he'll be securely in the top ten on my list, about #8. And with four to six such wins, he can go even higher.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Lennox Lewis and Larry Holmes can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Mike Tyson and George Foreman can never EVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
So right there at the very BEST they could be ranked they are at #9 and #10. BUT...:)
A very VERY strong case can be easily made that:
Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, and Audley Harrison are ALL ranked ahead of the K Brothers.
Therefore the K Brothers cannot reasonably be ranked any higher than #12 and #13 on the All-Time Great Heavyweights. And I reckon a prime Jersey Joe Walcott' prime Sonny Liston, or even a prime Ingemaar Johanssen would've given them a Night of Hell and probably won.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
I have him just inside my top ten at #10.
Two or three wins against decent opponents (Povetkin, Pulev, Fury, Price) and he'll be securely in the top ten on my list, about #8. And with four to six such wins, he can go even higher.
Even taking their best potential upside into consideration, none of those guys really add to Wladimir's legacy because they're not all that great from a historical perspective. Would any of them beat Sharkey, Baer, Schmeling, Johansson, or Liston? Because that is the level of fighter guys like Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Holyfield, Foreman, Holmes, Marciano, Frazier, Johnson beat. It's a tough, tough list. In no fault of his own, Wladimir just hasn't faced that level of competition, and given his potential opponents, it's impossible. Now, with that said, Wladimir will end his career with over 60 wins. He definitely merits a high ranking, but top ten is tough in my opinion, given that his career-defining win is David Haye?
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Lennox Lewis and Larry Holmes can NEVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
Mike Tyson and George Foreman can never EVER be ranked below the K Brothers.
So right there at the very BEST they could be ranked they are at #9 and #10. BUT...:)
A very VERY strong case can be easily made that:
Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, and Audley Harrison are ALL ranked ahead of the K Brothers.
Therefore the K Brothers cannot reasonably be ranked any higher than #12 and #13 on the All-Time Great Heavyweights. And I reckon a prime Jersey Joe Walcott' prime Sonny Liston, or even a prime Ingemaar Johanssen would've given them a Night of Hell and probably won.
Other than Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis, I agree with your assessment. Mike Tyson never really beat a prime top dog. What was his best win? Holmes at 38? To me, he's in a pretty similar situation to the Klitschko's, but what they have over him is longetivity.
With regard to Lewis, I have no problem ranking Vitali near Lewis, but I agree with you it shouldn't be ahead of him. Any way you cut it, Lewis struggled mightily with Vitali. When the fight ended, Vitali was winning. Lewis won though fair enough. but there is no argument that there was some big difference in class between Lewis and Vitali. In my opinion, the K-Bros should be ranked somewhere near Lewis, within five steps behind him. So, if you put Lewis outside the top ten, the K-Bros should be between 15-20, or something like that. Then again, that might be overestimating all three's ranking. It's a tough list to draft.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Wlad's opponents have almost all been mismatches ... especially last year in 2012 ... an old cruiser (who he held for over half the fight), a 40 year old whom he already defeated, and a cheating punching bag??
Sam Peter, Chris Byrd, and Sultan Ibragimov are his best wins. I would've included Ruslan Chagaev but he was a hepatitis patient.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
I not sure were i rate him but to be fair i feel any fighter from the 1900's to the 1960's would have major problems with some of Wlads best wins. I mean the size differences alone would a problem for some of the older fighters who were not very big. I mean Bryde, Sultan, Peter, Haye, and Chaagaev would cause some problems for people. Wald is very dominate so i not sure if he can fight any fighter we would consider great but when i look at other eras besides the 70's and 90's this era really not as bad as everyone thinks it is its just we have Wlad making it look that way. I mean Wtf is Holmes best win fucking old Norton, Shavers, Cooney, Maybe Mercer,and then there's a huge drop off in his wins but like other great champs he region on top.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
If he keeps winning then high! Maybe top 10...
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, and Audley Harrison are all ranked ahead of the K Brothers.
:rotflmao:
I assume u are being sarcastic.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
I look at the guy mostly as a champion rather than just a fighter.
I had Mike Tyson at 10 based on unification. Wladimir is pretty much unified and has had a much better reign as a champion so he is 10 now. Possibly 9 (have to review my list?!).
****EDIT*** - I now see I have Jack Dempsey at 9.... I think I'd be more happy to demote Dempsey some time after Wladimir has retired. I'm almost certain I would but who knows what else could happen in WK's career.
He was always going to be knocking on the door of the heavyweight greats but now his longevity and and all but undisputed reign pretty much confirms his place in the top 10 for me.
I just wish he would fight his brother. Or that one of them would die. Or something?! :mad:
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Sam Langford, and Audley Harrison are all ranked ahead of the K Brothers.
:rotflmao:
I assume u are being sarcastic.
If you knew him you would know he is.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
The thing with Wlad is that he is very safety first and that seems to turns alot people off. But he has been champ for a long time and if he keeps going it be hard not be make him in the top ten.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
I just wish he would fight his brother. Or that one of them would die. Or something?! :mad:
That's a bit harsh. LOL.
