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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
And that's not even mentioning the fact that Broner was jumping TWO weight divisions and fighting a champ. Put that in context: name someone else in boxing that you'd pick right now to jump TWO weight divisions and beat one of the champions (for argument's sake, the weakest champ in the division even). That's an incredible feat unto itself.
Is that really such a big deal? Name a belt holder as "weak" as Paulie? There are welterweight "prospects" that would have started big favourite against him. Also he is not super slick, as shown by Hatton, Khan, Cotto, N'Dou etc. He's a good tough boxer that gets his face smashed to bits against genuine world-class fighters.
Broner is a good young talent. However, he looked ordinary against a man picked specifically for him to look spectacular against. If you struggle to a points victory over Paulie you certainly wont be "carrying the sport" into the future. Thank fuck.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
Gandalf
The point is obvious and it hasn't taken Malignaggi alone to show that Broners defence is porous as he gets hit a lot often. His defense just isn't very effective.
My point stands, Ricky Hatton is more Floyd Mayweather than Broner. By conceding 200+ punches I think a case can be made for Paulie getting the draw. No boxer risks losing rounds by letting an opponent tee off for fun and Broner did lose his share of the rounds.
His defense is very effective. He stood right in front of a guy, unmoving, for 12 rounds and hardly got touched with anything. I can probably count on one hand how many times he got hit flush in the head.
A case can be made for Paulie getting a draw? Based on the number of punches he landed? This is the pros, not the amateurs. Fights aren't scored by who lands the most punches. I had money on Paulie and I still saw that Broner clearly won the fight.
Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen. He is flat footed and punches wail on through a leaky guard. He gets hit in every fight and now is in a division in which he cannot stop any of the top fighters.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen.
That's a terribly simplistic view of what happened. He stood right in front of the guy, unmoving, and Paulie could hardly touch him. Punch stats are always flawed, especially when you have a guy who stands still and lets his opponent tee off. I gaurentee you Paulie didn't land 200 clean blows.
If you think Broner's defense is average, you don't know boxing.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Is that really such a big deal?
I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen.
That's a terribly simplistic view of what happened. He stood right in front of the guy, unmoving, and Paulie could hardly touch him. Punch stats are always flawed, especially when you have a guy who stands still and lets his opponent tee off. I gaurentee you Paulie didn't land 200 clean blows.
If you think Broner's defense is average, you don't know boxing.
What?!
You are an idiot. Hatton had better defence than Broner as I already said. Broner gurns and turns his shoulder, but he is getting tagged to the body a lot. You are blind to not see it.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
The kid has has 27 pro fights, 108 rounds. He is still learning how to fight- we'll see down the road if, tonight, we saw how good he is, or if it was a step in the learning process.
(I was going to give James Toney as an example, but in his 27th fight he kod Michael Nunn. Didn't look great against Reggie Johnson after that, however.)
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
And that's not even mentioning the fact that Broner was jumping TWO weight divisions and fighting a champ. Put that in context: name someone else in boxing that you'd pick right now to jump TWO weight divisions and beat one of the champions (for argument's sake, the weakest champ in the division even). That's an incredible feat unto itself.
Thats more testament to how cluttered up and rubbish the multi division trinkets grabs are now. It's very over played and exactly by careful design. He was already 'unofficialy' at welter when he hood winked Escobedo. Guerrero pulled a leap frog too.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Well he jump up 12 pounds and i can name fighters who have done that and won belts vs better people. I mean there are so many divisions that jumping up one is kinda of a joke compared to what it use to be and most of the guys cut weight and should be at the weight they end up hydrated to.
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Wow boxing fans never cease to amaze me, Broner could beat Khan, Peterson, Cano, Lopez, Maidana, Berto, Judah, Paris, Perez, Burns for sure and I'll give him a fair shot against everyone but the elite.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Is that really such a big deal?
I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.
There are currently around 80 belt holders. Name them and I'm pretty sure we'll find several fighters that could step up two weight classes.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Is that really such a big deal?
I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.
As Spicoli just said, Guerrero actually did exactly the same thing in beating Berto, did he not? That was certainly a much tougher ask. I think more to the point is that Paulie has absolutely no size advantage on Broner, and wasn't by any means a relevant welterweight himself, trinket aside. He really deserved to lose the fight prior against a guy who had just been beaten up by Eric Morales, to put things in context. It's not really as impressive as you make it out imo.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
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Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
The kid has has 27 pro fights, 108 rounds. He is still learning how to fight- we'll see down the road if, tonight, we saw how good he is, or if it was a step in the learning process.
(I was going to give James Toney as an example, but in his 27th fight he kod Michael Nunn. Didn't look great against Reggie Johnson after that, however.)
Ironically it was Nunn being mentioned with Leonard or the 'next coming' by a few ;D But a p4p peaking Nunn at that. I just have a sour taste anytime we call a '3 time champion', blah, one who's still learning or fully unknown. Just doesn't pass the smell test for the sport as a whole.
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Might have underrated Paulie a little too! I believe Broner will grow into and belong at welter, he is just 23 yrs.
It doesn't take a genius to see that he has a ways to go to be the top welter or a top welter, but he is a monster at 135 and 140.
Don't forget that he was fighting at 130 about a year ago. Like I've said before, he is almost as good as he thinks he is. If the prick could just talk like a man instead an asshole.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
At least Broner is making things interesting, he could have stayed at lightweight and defended against a mandatory but instead does something unconventional and he should be praised for it.
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Re: Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Is that really such a big deal?
I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.
There are currently around 80 belt holders. Name them and I'm pretty sure we'll find several fighters that could step up two weight classes.
Id say Flloyd could jump up to super middle and beat Bika. So could Alvarez :D
