Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Where we part ways is Ward deserves more scrutiny, Ward wants the fight! How does the guy that wants the fight get scrutiny and the guy that doesn't want the fight get a pass?
We differ on our opinion of the middleweights, we generally agree on the placement but I do not consider Proska quality and he went DOWN in weight after proved he wasn't. I do not consider Rosado quality and all his losses prove that, I do not consider Stephens quality etcetera. We are talking about a champion of 12 title fights he should be fighting championship level not fringe contender after fringe contender.
I was a fan and want to be again but he's been talking about what he WILL do for a long time. In your best case scenario you HOPE he fights Sergio at the end of the year. I'm tired of hoping. There's a good fighter saying let's do it, do it. If Ward is unfair Froch said he wanted the fight as well. At least see what the offer before you decline.
Ward wants the fight against a guy COMING UP in weight and Ward is consensus number two on most people's p4p lists. GGG is unranked. Ward himself could go up in weight and get fights as big as GGG with Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal or Stevenson. Wins over any of those light heavyweights does more for Ward than against a middleweight coming up and he'll make as much money. Thus, he deserves scrutiny. GGG gets a pass for now because he would have to go up in weight before he has cleaned out the division. Ward also gets a pass for not facing Stevenson or Kovalev because he would be going up in weight to do it, although Ward has cleaned out the division. Why should he wait around at 168 when there is no one else to face?
Also, how is his hype undeserved? Perhaps you're overestimating the amount of hype he's getting. He's not considered the second coming. He's no Broner or Canelo 2013. Ring Magazine had Broner ranked in their top 6 p4p before Maidana clarified things. Canelo is still in their top ten. That's also the definition of hype. GGG is just the second best middleweight in the world. He's earned that level of hype or close to it in my opinion.
Just to clarify, you agree that he hasn't ducked anyone at 160, right? So, the only competition you think he should be criticized for is at 168?
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Where we part ways is Ward deserves more scrutiny, Ward wants the fight! How does the guy that wants the fight get scrutiny and the guy that doesn't want the fight get a pass?
We differ on our opinion of the middleweights, we generally agree on the placement but I do not consider Proska quality and he went DOWN in weight after proved he wasn't. I do not consider Rosado quality and all his losses prove that, I do not consider Stephens quality etcetera. We are talking about a champion of 12 title fights he should be fighting championship level not fringe contender after fringe contender.
I was a fan and want to be again but he's been talking about what he WILL do for a long time. In your best case scenario you HOPE he fights Sergio at the end of the year. I'm tired of hoping. There's a good fighter saying let's do it, do it. If Ward is unfair Froch said he wanted the fight as well. At least see what the offer before you decline.
Ward wants the fight against a guy COMING UP in weight and Ward is consensus number two on most people's p4p lists. GGG is unranked. Ward himself could go up in weight and get fights as big as GGG with Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal or Stevenson. Wins over any of those light heavyweights does more for Ward than against a middleweight coming up and he'll make as much money. Thus, he deserves scrutiny. GGG gets a pass for now because he would have to go up in weight before he has cleaned out the division. Ward also gets a pass for not facing Stevenson or Kovalev because he would be going up in weight to do it, although Ward has cleaned out the division. Why should he wait around at 168 when there is no one else to face?
Also, how is his hype undeserved? Perhaps you're overestimating the amount of hype he's getting. He's not considered the second coming. He's no Broner or Canelo 2013. Ring Magazine had Broner ranked in their top 6 p4p before Maidana clarified things. Canelo is still in their top ten. That's also the definition of hype. GGG is just the second best middleweight in the world. He's earned that level of hype or close to it in my opinion.
Just to clarify, you agree that he hasn't ducked anyone at 160, right? So, the only competition you think he should be criticized for is at 168?
I see both sides here but I dont see why GGG should be criticised for not moving up. He is fighting again in April. He is one of the most active champs and while his competition is not high profile the way they have performed against other champions should show how well he did against them. Mack leading against Martinez, and in very close fight with Sturm, Rosado did very well against Quillin. I feel bad for him because even if he does get a fight agaisnt these guys and beats them easily hell get criticised for fighting these guys instead of moving up.
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I'm rather sure I never said anything about hype. I don't think GGG has ever avoided anyone at 160. But I don't see any evidence he is cleaning out 160. Proska was at 154 last time I checked, Rosado moved up for big fights and back down to 154. Ishida came from 154. I can't recall the busy african with the tremendous back story but he came from 154.
Let me be perfectly clear. I'm good with a Geale fight, I'm not good with Kirkland because yet again 154. I'm not good with Andy Lee because Julio Cesar Chavez destroyed him and Brian Vera KOed him as well, yhat tells you all you need to know. If it's Geale that IME is his 2nd fight towards cleaning out the division to go with Macklin. That's 2 fights in the 3 years since I said I thought he was the best MW in the world. He's fighting a lot. There should be more than 2 and one isn't even signed. I fully expect him to take on Lee.
If he picks Geale, good. If not his excuse of cleaning out the division is dead and buried from my perspective.
Could that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bcollins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I'm rather sure I never said anything about hype. I don't think GGG has ever avoided anyone at 160. But I don't see any evidence he is cleaning out 160. Proska was at 154 last time I checked, Rosado moved up for big fights and back down to 154. Ishida came from 154. I can't recall the busy african with the tremendous back story but he came from 154.
Let me be perfectly clear. I'm good with a Geale fight, I'm not good with Kirkland because yet again 154. I'm not good with Andy Lee because Julio Cesar Chavez destroyed him and Brian Vera KOed him as well, yhat tells you all you need to know. If it's Geale that IME is his 2nd fight towards cleaning out the division to go with Macklin. That's 2 fights in the 3 years since I said I thought he was the best MW in the world. He's fighting a lot. There should be more than 2 and one isn't even signed. I fully expect him to take on Lee.
If he picks Geale, good. If not his excuse of cleaning out the division is dead and buried from my perspective.
Could that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?
Will it be any easier making fights at 154? I dont know if his power holds at 168. If it doesnt will he outbox Ward or Groves? Or be able to keep guys like Bika or Froch off him for 12 rounds? I doubt it.
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Here's why its fair to criticize Golovkin for the Ward fight. You can't be credited for calling out everyone from 154 to 175 and then when Ward calls you on it you all of sudden want to clean out 160 first. In addition Golovkin's team just put out a statement claiming he is a star and that they won't negotiate unless Ward concedes. That is 2 quick clear cut ways they have already said no to fight. Ward wasn't calling anyone out but as everyone should know by now you're not going to punk him by making your guy seem like this boogeyman that nobody from 154 to 175 wants to fight. Man, I was a bigger Golovkin fan but his team is just a turn off and its only falling on GGG. Its not even GGG making these claims. How can you call out everybody from 154 to 175 but you never leave 160, every 154er had to come to him. And when a 168er wants you you then want to clean out 160 first? His team needs to stop talking and trying to create this myth that everybody is afraid of the guy when in reality it is a few guys who aren't even worth bragging about. I like GGG a lot and he is good for boxing and I think he is the real deal but no top name has ducked him, he is not the boogeyman, and he is not willing to fight anyone from 154 to 175. Having said that I think the only fight that matters at 160 is GGG/Martinez.
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jehoshaphat
Here's why its fair to criticize Golovkin for the Ward fight. You can't be credited for calling out everyone from 154 to 175 and then when Ward calls you on it you all of sudden want to clean out 160 first. In addition Golovkin's team just put out a statement claiming he is a star and that they won't negotiate unless Ward concedes. That is 2 quick clear cut ways they have already said no to fight. Ward wasn't calling anyone out but as everyone should know by now you're not going to punk him by making your guy seem like this boogeyman that nobody from 154 to 175 wants to fight. Man, I was a bigger Golovkin fan but his team is just a turn off and its only falling on GGG. Its not even GGG making these claims. How can you call out everybody from 154 to 175 but you never leave 160, every 154er had to come to him. And when a 168er wants you you then want to clean out 160 first? His team needs to stop talking and trying to create this myth that everybody is afraid of the guy when in reality it is a few guys who aren't even worth bragging about. I like GGG a lot and he is good for boxing and I think he is the real deal but no top name has ducked him, he is not the boogeyman, and he is not willing to fight anyone from 154 to 175. Having said that I think the only fight that matters at 160 is GGG/Martinez.
I guess he is waiting for a decent payday at middle before going anywhere. Everyone reckons he will easily beat Sturm, Quillin or Martinez and all would give him a decent payday. A fight against Ward probably wouldnt give him that big a payday and would as such be too big a risk?
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jehoshaphat
Here's why its fair to criticize Golovkin for the Ward fight. You can't be credited for calling out everyone from 154 to 175 and then when Ward calls you on it you all of sudden want to clean out 160 first. In addition Golovkin's team just put out a statement claiming he is a star and that they won't negotiate unless Ward concedes. That is 2 quick clear cut ways they have already said no to fight. Ward wasn't calling anyone out but as everyone should know by now you're not going to punk him by making your guy seem like this boogeyman that nobody from 154 to 175 wants to fight. Man, I was a bigger Golovkin fan but his team is just a turn off and its only falling on GGG. Its not even GGG making these claims. How can you call out everybody from 154 to 175 but you never leave 160, every 154er had to come to him. And when a 168er wants you you then want to clean out 160 first? His team needs to stop talking and trying to create this myth that everybody is afraid of the guy when in reality it is a few guys who aren't even worth bragging about. I like GGG a lot and he is good for boxing and I think he is the real deal but no top name has ducked him, he is not the boogeyman, and he is not willing to fight anyone from 154 to 175. Having said that I think the only fight that matters at 160 is GGG/Martinez.
I guess he is waiting for a decent payday at middle before going anywhere. Everyone reckons he will easily beat Sturm, Quillin or Martinez and all would give him a decent payday. A fight against Ward probably wouldnt give him that big a payday and would as such be too big a risk?
I agree with what GGG is doing. Clean out your division. But I disagree with what his team is doing. Making everyone from 154 to 175 seem less credible. If you're going for cleaning out your division then rescind that 154 to 175 tough tony talk. It only pertains to 160.
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
GGG V Ward a fight for the purists, can't see it generating much interest with the general public.!
it's a good fight for us fans, Lee will take a beating and last as long as GGG lets him, well JC Jr
take a look at them sparring on Youtube, he beat the shit out of Jr.;)
Re: GGG might fight Andy Lee in April.. is he the new Erdei?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Could that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?
It very well could be no fault of his own. The thing is I don't care about fault, I care about big fights. This guy has had NONE. I think he's good and have for years and I want him to prove it. I don't buy into fear, these guys are fighters they're tough.
He's fought plenty of 154 fighters, if he wants to continue that's fine but go to 154.
If he wants big fights at 160 but can't get them there's no point in staying there.
My problem isn't with GGG it's with the way fans back him. He can fight a bunch of 154 fighters at 160 but it's wrong for Ward to fight 1 160 fighter at 168? Why the double standard?
My main reason for wanting Ward/GGG is I think it's a great fight. I see it as the best fight between 154-168. If Ward goes up to 175 we never see it. And if Ward gets the idea he isn't going to get the fight he will move up.
I love a Kovalev/Ward fight or Stevenson/Ward fight. I just don't want to miss a GGG/Ward fight.
I don't think Sergio ever fights GGG. I think he's ready for retirement. We'll see, but as I see it I think Ward vs 175 is being held up by the hopes of Ward/GGG and Ward/GGG is being held up by hopes of GGG/Martinez and since I don't expect it to happen it's all for nothing.
It looks like the whole damn sport has bought into the Floyd/Manny sales model of building fighters on the hopes of a fight rather than building fighters on fights.[/QUOTE]
Just to be clear, Proksa is a tried and true middleweight. His last fight was a loss against Sergio Mora at middleweight. As far as I know, he hasn't ever fought at 154. Adama was a tried and true middleweight. Macklin was a tried and true middleweight. Same with Stevens. Ishida is a now a heavyweight (no joke actually). 3/4 of Rosado's last fights have been at middleweight.
I think a passing-of-the torch fight, if that is what it is, and I'm not willing to say that until I see Sergio against Cotto, makes sense at middleweight. If GGG beats Martinez, he should then move up, unless Kid Chocolate has left Golden Boy by that time and still hasn't been beat.
But, I'm not sure why you want to see Ward-GGG so badly. Do you really think it's a great fight? I think Ward would be highly favored in that fight, at least right now. Do you disagree? The way I look at it, Ward is the second best boxer in the world by most people's standards, and GGG is still on the come up. Ward has fought Froch, Kessler, Bika etc. He clearly has more experience. Most importantly, he's naturally bigger. So, I don't see the fight as super competitive. Plus, even if we don't get the Ward-GGG fight, there will be other good fights at super middleweight at the time GGG moves up.
Plus, Ward had Dawson and Rodriguez come down in weight. Prior to that, he campaigned for Pavlik and Junior fights. I'm a fan of Ward, but facts are facts. There is no one to fight at 168 right now for him. He should have moved up already especially when the top five at 175 is pretty deep.
