Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

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06-09-2014, 07:24 PM
cyclone

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.

You sure do like making excuses for Sergio.

Martinez was ALWAYS wide open for the punches Cotto had for him.
06-09-2014, 08:17 PM
Kirkland Laing

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I was very critical of not only his legs but how he used them. I felt terrible after the fight because it probably came off dismissive of Cotto when that certainly wasn't my intention.

Here is what my eyes thought they saw.
Not a knee issue as much as a leg strength issue and how he moved not his ability to move. First, one foot was always in the air. Big step left with his lead leg, he's not in a good punching position while it is up or turned as it put him. Then big step sideways with his train foot, again he can't really punch with that foot in the air. Once he plants it down he is sturdy but he then moved his lead leg again. Constantly with no base under him. His balance was shook from early but some of that can be compensated by pure leg strength. And awkward fighters can generate power without having their legs under them from their legs. That's what makes them awkward. Being able to get power when you don't expect. But I saw about five times(not counting when he was stunned) where he went to make a simple movement and he sort of tripped because it didn't look like he had the strength in his legs to compensate for his movement.

I fully apologize if it came off I was dismissing what Cotto had done. That certainly wasn't my intention. I just didn't see leg strength from Sergio, I commented on how pencil thin his legs were at the weigh in. I thought they'd use the 14 months to build them up to stabilize the knee. I didn't see leg strength at the weigh in and I didn't see a solid base in the fight. Full props to Cotto for beating the hell out of him. And I use what I say about Sergios legs as no excuse for how wildly wrong I was about the fight. What happened happened I was just flat wrong. Probably the most wrong I've been since I under estimated a young Andre Ward. This one will stick with me for the shot to my ego. But it's awesome that Cotto got to put on such a show. Bariquas rejoice!

This is the thing. He didn't have his legs from the first bell in this fight which meant he didn't have his normal mobility to get himself into punching position/out of the way of Cotto's punches and didn't have any snap in his punches when he did throw them.
06-09-2014, 10:02 PM
JazzWolf

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Check 1:05 of round one. Martinez twists his right knee and ankle badly as Cotto steps on his front foot and lands a left hook. My knee hurt just watching it.

Edit: If it was from the punch alone, both legs would have gone.

Occurs again at R1 1.25 and 0.43 where Cotto wedges his own knee behind Martinez front knee and pushes him, causing him to collapse over.

Evil as sin but effective tactics.
06-09-2014, 10:05 PM
Master

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

I have not seen the fight but Sergio did not use it as an excuse.
06-09-2014, 10:19 PM
zhubin

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

I was 99% sure Sergio was finished physically after the Murray fight...he just looked that bad. When i heard he was having a tough time making 159, i had a feeling he was in for a long night. His legs are gone...anyone trying to dispute that by saying he was able to back pedal from Cotto in order to survive is just a hater. His mobility and balance have been greatly diminished...and you can tell his punches no longer have pop. For a fighter who relies a lot on his athleticism...he was in position to get demoralized. Credit Cotto for doing what he had to do...he showed that he still has life in him. But i am not going to get carried away and say he is a threat to the other big (and much healthier) names at 160.
06-09-2014, 10:41 PM
Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.

You sure do like making excuses for Sergio.

Martinez was ALWAYS wide open for the punches Cotto had for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Martinez issue wasn't his knees which has nothing to do with the way he couldnt get away from Cottos left hook. Almost every hook he threw landed and Martinez could do nothing to get away from it. Even if he was 100% Cotto would still be landing those hooks. He was aggressive when he had to be and patient when he had to be. Props to Cotto. Hope Martinez retires he had a late start and still manged to have a great career great fighter lots of heart for wanting to stay in it.

I dont make excuses not even for one of my favorite fighters im just pointing out that there's a difference from getting KTFO like Pacquiao, Williams or Hatton then getting stopped like Alvarado, Castillo or Martinez.
06-10-2014, 12:59 AM
Addicted to_boxing

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamInuit

The guy was on his friggin bike the entire fight. That is quite a feat for a one legged man. Of course it was not the same Sergio from 3 years ago. Neither was it the same Cotto. Not everyone is Juan Marquez. He simply never recovered from round 1.

No way does a guy use his legs like he did if he had a bad knee. He was so much bigger, stronger, faster that he could have just stood in the pocket right? Anyway if someone would be so kind to point out the round and time when he lost the limb?

FF TO 14 min for the ending of the chatter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3PE_6ERTDI

He was moving in one direction due to bad knee . That direction was not the direction a southpaw should move in vs a right handed fighter. It was the only gear he could move in . He was not able to brace and put power behind it and he did not dart in and out or make quick stop and go movements. Remarkably he lasted that long. Cotto should have taken him out sooner had he just leaned on him More. Sergio's knees could barely handle his own weight. There was no strength afforded to him he simply had no base to stand up and throw any punches with power.
06-11-2014, 03:54 PM
beenKOed

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.

You sure do like making excuses for Sergio.

Martinez was ALWAYS wide open for the punches Cotto had for him.

Margarito is a known cheater and a poor example, the majority of his fights should be suspect, anyway you are talking about now not then.
06-11-2014, 04:01 PM
beenKOed

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

He was sure as fuck, all that, when he planked Paul Williams!
06-11-2014, 05:30 PM
IamInuit

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Double post
06-11-2014, 05:31 PM
IamInuit

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing

He was moving in one direction due to bad knee . That direction was not the direction a southpaw should move in vs a right handed fighter. It was the only gear he could move in . He was not able to brace and put power behind it and he did not dart in and out or make quick stop and go movements. Remarkably he lasted that long. Cotto should have taken him out sooner had he just leaned on him More. Sergio's knees could barely handle his own weight. There was no strength afforded to him he simply had no base to stand up and throw any punches with power.

Sorry not buying that. You are not giving Cotto any credit for steering the vehicle and Martinez has never moved a certain way. He's not a fundamentalist fighter. He relies on his natural athletic ability and not a how to book.He takes a Roy Jones like approach.

See now I have no problem with the notion that Sergio was not at his best. Its the reason I picked Cotto. Its the reason Cotto went after the fight. I would not have picked Cotto 2 years ago. I also have no issues with accepting that he has/had a knee issue. Thing is, if his knee was that bad then he would not have been cleared to fight. The entire knee bracegate almost has the stench of premeditation because Martinez never bothered to train and was living in a sauna the week of the fight.

Cotto got to him early and caught him off balance(which has happened throughout his career because of the way he fights)

Martinez never recovered and that's right from his mouth.Its not really a chicken vs egg question. Cotto found him earlier and laid the egg.That fact happened in front of everyone who watched it.How that has translated to his knee being the cause is unbelievable.Any further damage that may have resulted to his knee which is yet to be substantiated was done as a direct result of being dropped three times, probably concussed badly and never recovering.
06-11-2014, 05:56 PM
Gandalf

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.

Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.

He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.
06-11-2014, 06:56 PM
cyclone

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.

You sure do like making excuses for Sergio.

Martinez was ALWAYS wide open for the punches Cotto had for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Martinez issue wasn't his knees which has nothing to do with the way he couldnt get away from Cottos left hook. Almost every hook he threw landed and Martinez could do nothing to get away from it. Even if he was 100% Cotto would still be landing those hooks. He was aggressive when he had to be and patient when he had to be. Props to Cotto. Hope Martinez retires he had a late start and still manged to have a great career great fighter lots of heart for wanting to stay in it.

I dont make excuses not even for one of my favorite fighters im just pointing out that there's a difference from getting KTFO like Pacquiao, Williams or Hatton then getting stopped like Alvarado, Castillo or Martinez.

Sergio quit on his stool before he got KTFO like Williams and Pacman

It was coming and he knew it.

He did get dropped on his face though..
06-11-2014, 07:00 PM
cyclone

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.

Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.

He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.

You sure are one hypocritocal little Hobbit.

Manny made a living out of beating up old semi disabled fighters...at least Sergio had a license..unlike the shattered version of Margarito Pactrash cherry picked.

Pac has plenty meaningless wins on his juiced-up resume.
06-11-2014, 07:56 PM
Gandalf

Re: Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Cotto deserves credit for fighting well and making few mistakes. But the facts are obvious, he beat up an old and semi disabled person to gain that title. It isn't respectable. You could see the way Martinez was stumbling all over the place in the first round, and was moving with all the agility of a snail in the rounds thereafter. He was a pretty wounded deer and a deer doesn't move pretty with 3 let alone 1leg, as Martinez had. He didn't have his legs from the off.

Martinez was not in that fight from the day the contract was signed and he knew it and Cotto knew it. One can get all pissy that Cotto isn't getting his credit, but that is because he willingly chose to fight an invalid. That is how that cookie crumbles. From the off Martinez was going the wrong way BECAUSE he was trying to minimise damage. He thought he could slug it out, but really had no idea in that regard. Or was just too greedy for the paycheck or deluded.

He was a fighter fighting with none of his skills intact and thus it was a meaningless win for Cotto who can only redeem this tragedy by having a meaningful fight at MW to prove it wasn't a joke. After all Pac moved up, Cotto surely can't be satisfied with beating up old peg leg and being crowned MW king.

You sure are one hypocritocal little Hobbit.

Manny made a living out of beating up old semi disabled fighters...at least Sergio had a license..unlike the shattered version of Margarito Pactrash cherry picked.

Pac has plenty meaningless wins on his juiced-up resume.

I don't recall mentioning Pac above.

In fact he has nothing to do with this, so you are being bizarre.

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