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Tyson fought and beat plenty of big men and ones with good jabs.
Mike Tyson is not Joe Frazier he is completely a different fighter. Joe had probably better heart, courage and determination but Mike was bigger, faster and more skilled fighter/puncher.
Foreman could get up off the canvas, recover, and win.....Tyson could not. Once Big George touched Tyson the game would have been up. George is just too big, too strong, too intimidating.
Could Tyson win? Yeah of course he could. Would Tyson win? I don't believe so.
that is it.... too big, too strong. I remember my friend in '74 repeating that like a mantra, over and over, too big, too strong, about George. He is a freak of nature. Nobody is doing anything to him except Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Foreman fought Lyle in 1976. we're talking about Foreman from January 1973? It's true Tyson was formidable in his prime, but what was his prime? 1986-1989? Tyson's prime was a relatively short timespan and was effectively done before he was 24yrs old. Frazier was a seasoned professional fighter with 8 years professional experience before fighting Foreman and he was made to look like a fool by big George. Every time Frazier tired to explode underneath he was pushed away with ease. Foreman of January 1973 v Tyson of 1987 still goes the same way, Foreman is too big and simply to powerful for Mike Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou are both talking about a shattered Tyson and looking at how it ended and not at his peak as a fighter. Making a big deal about Lewis beating that shell is like making one over Marciano/Louis or Tarver stopping Roy.Tyson was already a basket case before he fought Douglas. Guys like Tucker and Smith hugged Mike to death. They never had a strategy outside of survival. Not sure what this Foreman jab you are talking about in 1973 is. He had a much better jab in 1987 and was even faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Joe Frazier had a left hook and bobbed and weaved. Tyson was a two handed fighter who took bobbing and weaving to an entirely different level and was much, much faster then Frazier. Foreman was slower in 73 then the second coming of Christ. I like Ron Lyle but Foreman went life and death with him and if Tyson put him down like Lyle did he would finish the job. Foremans lumbering octopus routine would not work with the prime Tyson. Mike would explode underneath and Foreman would not know what hit him and they would be concussive and multiple.
If I remember correctly, Mike Tyson was always vulnerable to a right uppercut. I remember Tony Tucker hurt him and push him back in their fight in the 1st round before he broke his right hand and never threw that right uppercut again. Tucker magnificently timed Tyson in that 1st round, furthermore Tyson was wobbly and badly hurt at the end of the Bonecrusher Smith fight, it wasn't a right uppercut but an overhand right that was timed when Tyson lunged in.
George Foreman in '73, although crude in style more than likely will catch Tyson lunging in. If guys like Bonecrusher and Tucker could hurt and wobble Tyson like that with timed shots, I can see Big George catching Tyson. Sure Big George was crude back then, but best believe if he catches you, it's over.
I just keep seeing the early Foreman as much more vulnerable to that speed combo than older version. A lot of mistakes for Tyson to exploit also.That almost sounds backwards but Foreman would fight likewise, heavy planted front foot and just have more vulnerabilities on instinct to match power. In either scenario..Foremans end game would be coming underneath... as Tyson would bob-weave and get that almost over exaggerated bend in the knees he had spots of. He'd over rely on the springing up and get a bit stiff. There is when Foreman forces his heels and takes the side to side step away for enough. Still think it more doable for relaxed geezer Foreman. Man I wish that would match came off then
As a self proclaimed peek-a-boo expert, I can announce you the verdict on Foreman vs Tyson for a small fee of 100 USD. PM who is interested
My first reaction was based on Tyson being the better athlete with comparable overall resilience, just being able to be more effective for the majority of skirmishes and exchanges.
However, I hadn't considered the psychological element of the match-up, which kinda hints that Tyson would loose it.
George was not very stable tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Tyson was a very sensitive and emotional guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminGeorge was not very stable tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
At times a complete train-wreck of a man.
The intimidation of Foreman would have gotten to him in some way. I'm not entirely sure how - but I'm sure it would upset him.
With stable people in his corner he seemed to be OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusTyson was a very sensitive and emotional guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminGeorge was not very stable tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
.
Big george ko4.
Nah, and again you are somehow trying to compare Frazier to Tyson and some king of evidence and it simply does not wash. I guess he could win I mean its a fight but more likely then not he'd look like a blind man in a packed shopping mall w/o a cane or dog. In theory I suppose Gerry Cooney could beat him also but not likely. In addition saying Foreman is to big and to powerful is like saying Primo Carnera was to big and to powerful for Max Baer or that Sammy Langford was to small to be fighting over 160. His size would simply not be a factor in this particular fight and he's the rinse and repeat fighter in the match not Tyson. I see no possible way Foreman wins this. Shame we dont have a time machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANForeman fought Lyle in 1976. we're talking about Foreman from January 1973? It's true Tyson was formidable in his prime, but what was his prime? 1986-1989? Tyson's prime was a relatively short timespan and was effectively done before he was 24yrs old. Frazier was a seasoned professional fighter with 8 years professional experience before fighting Foreman and he was made to look like a fool by big George. Every time Frazier tired to explode underneath he was pushed away with ease. Foreman of January 1973 v Tyson of 1987 still goes the same way, Foreman is too big and simply to powerful for Mike Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou are both talking about a shattered Tyson and looking at how it ended and not at his peak as a fighter. Making a big deal about Lewis beating that shell is like making one over Marciano/Louis or Tarver stopping Roy.Tyson was already a basket case before he fought Douglas. Guys like Tucker and Smith hugged Mike to death. They never had a strategy outside of survival. Not sure what this Foreman jab you are talking about in 1973 is. He had a much better jab in 1987 and was even faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Joe Frazier had a left hook and bobbed and weaved. Tyson was a two handed fighter who took bobbing and weaving to an entirely different level and was much, much faster then Frazier. Foreman was slower in 73 then the second coming of Christ. I like Ron Lyle but Foreman went life and death with him and if Tyson put him down like Lyle did he would finish the job. Foremans lumbering octopus routine would not work with the prime Tyson. Mike would explode underneath and Foreman would not know what hit him and they would be concussive and multiple.
George Foreman is simply not getting knocked out. He went down from sheer exhaustion against Ali. Thats all it was. He threw 1000 punches in 8 rounds against a rope a doping slickster. Mike Tyson is coming straight in and George will take his head off with uppercut. I say uppercut because all he will need is ONE. I just watched Mitch Green land countless uppercuts on a prime 1986 Tyson. Buzzed him once or twice, though Green had shit power. Big George would take Tyson's head clean off with one Texas Uppercut.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNah, and again you are somehow trying to compare Frazier to Tyson and some king of evidence and it simply does not wash. I guess he could win I mean its a fight but more likely then not he'd look like a blind man in a packed shopping mall w/o a cane or dog. In theory I suppose Gerry Cooney could beat him also but not likely. In addition saying Foreman is to big and to powerful is like saying Primo Carnera was to big and to powerful for Max Baer or that Sammy Langford was to small to be fighting over 160. His size would simply not be a factor in this particular fight and he's the rinse and repeat fighter in the match not Tyson. I see no possible way Foreman wins this. Shame we dont have a time machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANForeman fought Lyle in 1976. we're talking about Foreman from January 1973? It's true Tyson was formidable in his prime, but what was his prime? 1986-1989? Tyson's prime was a relatively short timespan and was effectively done before he was 24yrs old. Frazier was a seasoned professional fighter with 8 years professional experience before fighting Foreman and he was made to look like a fool by big George. Every time Frazier tired to explode underneath he was pushed away with ease. Foreman of January 1973 v Tyson of 1987 still goes the same way, Foreman is too big and simply to powerful for Mike Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou are both talking about a shattered Tyson and looking at how it ended and not at his peak as a fighter. Making a big deal about Lewis beating that shell is like making one over Marciano/Louis or Tarver stopping Roy.Tyson was already a basket case before he fought Douglas. Guys like Tucker and Smith hugged Mike to death. They never had a strategy outside of survival. Not sure what this Foreman jab you are talking about in 1973 is. He had a much better jab in 1987 and was even faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Joe Frazier had a left hook and bobbed and weaved. Tyson was a two handed fighter who took bobbing and weaving to an entirely different level and was much, much faster then Frazier. Foreman was slower in 73 then the second coming of Christ. I like Ron Lyle but Foreman went life and death with him and if Tyson put him down like Lyle did he would finish the job. Foremans lumbering octopus routine would not work with the prime Tyson. Mike would explode underneath and Foreman would not know what hit him and they would be concussive and multiple.
The comparisons of Tyson and Frazier are because of the tactics used by Foreman to push himself out of danger and push Joe into the ropes where Foreman could trap him. Also Joe Frazier was the undefeated, undisputed heavyweight champion of the world at the time who just beat Ali and George hammered the hell out of him. Frazier was about the same size as Tyson as well 6'0 214 vs Tyson's 5'10 218 (vs Spinks). George had slow-ish hands...people act like his punches were thrown at a glacial pace, NO his punches always had power on them but they weren't slower than the average heavyweights' punches. Tyson had fast hands? Yeah sure, his speed was part of his power...it was that kind of Shane Mosley power. The power knocks you for a loop only after the speed has caught you completely off guard. People make a big deal about Tyson's chin, but shit George's chin was pretty fucking solid as well...only KO'd 1 time, 1 time!!!