Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
imp
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Originally Posted by
zhubin
Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.
Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.
People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.
Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A
Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.
What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!
Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!
All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!
Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
imp
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.
Its pretty obvious that manny should have changed trainers when he couldn't crack the marquez code.
Floyd is a far superior counter puncher than marquez and better in EVERY skillset including chin.
Those videos highlight that floyd is not perfect and can be bothered with speed but guess what...he still adjusts and ends up winning!!!
And thats the difference between floyd and manny..floyd has a second gear but manny is stuck on auto.
I dont see it that way. It was Marquez who took 4 fights to land the sweet shot and that was after bulking up and making his camp right hand specific for the 4th fight. He's the one that could not crack it. He stood there like a venus fly trap and Manny finally walked in. Floyd does not and will not fight him that way and Manny wont use pressure the way Maidana did. That video shows what has been long known. The shell from the orthodox side has problems with speedy movers that are southpaws that have above average straight left hands.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
imp
Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?
Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...
You could argue Floyd should have lost 2 of those fights :p
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
imp
Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?
Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...
Floyd is lucky that he had his homer Cortez in there for Castillo 2, Hatton and Ortiz or the surprise people got from how well Maidana did may not have been a surprise at all.
In the end this is not the same fight as it would have been even 2 years ago let alone 4 or 5. Manny's chances have increased a great deal and his drive is going to be incredible vs Floyds hubris. And if its going to be as easy as some super fans seem to think it is then there will be nothing to brag about. He simply beat another no hoper.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
http://youtu.be/_MaY09p-qWI
The fact that in the rematch Maidana(whose supposed to be a slow flat footed slugger ) was able to slip and counter Floyd's right tells me that Floyd's reflexes and speed arnt what they were. Think what you want but those 2 fights with Maidana and being more active then he's been recently took alot out of Floyd.
