world war two

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

US involvment ended the war quicker, but the Reich was doomed the second operation barbarosa was planned.

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Planned? Not sure that's quite true. Certainly by the time they had failed to take Moscow before winter you're right, but the early stages of Barbarosa went very smoothly for the Germans, conceivably it could have kept doing so if it weren't for Hitler making it up as he went along and spreading his army even thinner. Stalingrad was of very little strategic importance for instance, and the German losses there were insane. If those troops had been sent north to help take Moscow initially, things may have been a lot different.
Also, the Americans indirectly had a significant role in that theater. Before PEarl Harbour, Stalin was seriously worried the Japanese would invade Siberia and had much of the red army there. He was able to send them all west to fight at Lenin and Stalingrad once that threat was gone.

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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Britain would never have beaten Germany alone, but also would never have been defeated alone.

It is not easy to take an island nation, especially one with one of the world's largest military forces and a long history of land, sea and air battles.

Look at the trouble superpowers have had in the last 40 years with their vastly superior technology against much much smaller forces. Now think of Germany trying to take Britain. A much more even match in terms of numbers and technology, and with a grimly determined population.

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler? :cool:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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If Hitler would of delayed going into the Soviet Union and just concentrated on Britain he would of took it. Churchill knew it too. He was practically on his knees begging for the US to get involved.

What makes me mad is that FM Montgomery is the most underrated Generals of WW2. History books in America don't even talk about him at all.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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Thank you mother Russia and divided fronts but no love for the yanks...not to mention a dozen allied countries flying in the Battle of Britain. I wonder how Stalin would have taken to Hitler and an Allied lose at Normandy.

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Originally Posted by mrbig1

What makes me mad is that FM Montgomery is the most underrated Generals of WW2. History books in America don't even talk about him at all.

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I think that's partly Pattons fault. He looked at Monty as too defensive while Patton went on mad dashes no military minds thought were possible. Eisenhower, the supreme allied commander also got annoyed with Monty but in no way is he portrayed as a slouch in American history. He was a large reason the allies won.

Someone mentioned D day. Had Hitler allowed Rommel to move his Panzer divisions to Normandy it could have stopped the assault. Hitler still thought the real invasion would be Calais, one big reason we won was spycraft and deception, genius stuff really.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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If Hitler would of delayed going into the Soviet Union and just concentrated on Britain he would of took it. Churchill knew it too. He was practically on his knees begging for the US to get involved.

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Without having air superiority Hitler wouldn't have been able to successfully invade Britain even if he hadn't invaded Russia. And he tried and failed to establish it but lost the Battle of Britain.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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Thank you mother Russia and divided fronts but no love for the yanks...not to mention a dozen allied countries flying in the Battle of Britain. I wonder how Stalin would have taken to Hitler and an Allied lose at Normandy.

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The Iron Curtain would have been in Calais. And when you did eventually turn up you did very well thank you.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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If Hitler would of delayed going into the Soviet Union and just concentrated on Britain he would of took it. Churchill knew it too. He was practically on his knees begging for the US to get involved.

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Without having air superiority Hitler wouldn't have been able to successfully invade Britain even if he hadn't invaded Russia. And he tried and failed to establish it but lost the Battle of Britain.

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If you keep everything hypothetical; had Hitler focused on building more U boats before the war he could have easily destroyed the British navy and conquered it by land;D It was never a priority of his to declare war on what he viewed as another Aryan nation, the guy was a lunatic who was bent on invading Russia no matter what.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Hitler gave up thinking about invading Britain after the Battle of Britain. Shortly afterwards he got his arse kicked at Stalingrad and had more than he could handle just fighting the Russians. Britain would never have been beaten by the Germans even if America hadn't got involved.

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If Hitler would of delayed going into the Soviet Union and just concentrated on Britain he would of took it. Churchill knew it too. He was practically on his knees begging for the US to get involved.

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Without having air superiority Hitler wouldn't have been able to successfully invade Britain even if he hadn't invaded Russia. And he tried and failed to establish it but lost the Battle of Britain.

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If you keep everything hypothetical; had Hitler focused on building more U boats before the war he could have easily destroyed the British navy and conquered it by land;D It was never a priority of his to declare war on what he viewed as another Aryan nation, the guy was a lunatic who was bent on invading Russia no matter what.

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Ya I'm not much into those hypothetical alternatives in history. I think what happened was supposed to happen, or to me they were historical necessities. I'm thinking purely from what people might call 'mystical' point of view though, if you guys know what I mean. Long time back, I was thinking why the U.S. came all the way here to the opposite side of their world to set up their only full-fledged colony. There was simply no reason at that time for them to do so and so I couldn't figure out why. Then it dawned onto me that perhaps, just perhaps, they where brought here from somewhere above and I didn't necessarily mean God, to prepare for the onslaught of another evil empire, btw I'm half Jap;D, which was about to attempt to conquer the whole Asia. And the rest if history...

Let's not forgot, as long as speaking hypothetically, what if Hitler hadn't devoted so much time and means to trying to exterminate entire races. He would have had a lot more resources to provide troops.

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Originally Posted by walrus

Let's not forgot, as long as speaking hypothetically, what if Hitler hadn't devoted so much time and means to trying to exterminate entire races. He would have had a lot more resources to provide troops.

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That was exactly the mistake of the fuhrer, trying to bite more than he can chew. He'd just gone a bit too far.

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by walrus

Let's not forgot, as long as speaking hypothetically, what if Hitler hadn't devoted so much time and means to trying to exterminate entire races. He would have had a lot more resources to provide troops.

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That was exactly the mistake of the fuhrer, trying to bite more than he can chew. He'd just gone a bit too far.

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After the war they eventually tracked him down living in a bunker in the jungle in Paraguay. They asked him Adolf, if you had your time over again what would you do differently?

He said "next time no more Mister Nice Guy".

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by walrus

Let's not forgot, as long as speaking hypothetically, what if Hitler hadn't devoted so much time and means to trying to exterminate entire races. He would have had a lot more resources to provide troops.

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That was exactly the mistake of the fuhrer, trying to bite more than he can chew. He'd just gone a bit too far.

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After the war they eventually tracked him down living in a bunker in the jungle in Paraguay. They asked him Adolf, if you had your time over again what would you do differently?

He said "next time no more Mister Nice Guy".

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I thought he had a disease and was going mad anyway so the allied forces did not want him removed with someone who had the intelligence to win the war.