Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Would you care to elaborate and do so objectively?
I'm not sure I can since the question is mostly a subjective one. But, I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame since he was not "the guy" in his division at any point during his career.
I suppose you could argue that someone need not be "the champ" in cases where he was avoided and did not ever get a championship fight. I also think you could just have one of the titles and not the lineal title too. But, you have to be the guy at some point in any division where you have fought. He had the opportunity to be the guy but fell short. So, he falls short of the Hall too.
I don't mean this to be a slight on the career of Carl. I just have a different standard for entering the Hall than some.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hmmfe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Would you care to elaborate and do so objectively?
I'm not sure I can since the question is mostly a subjective one. But, I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame since he was not "the guy" in his division at any point during his career.
I suppose you could argue that someone need not be "the champ" in cases where he was avoided and did not ever get a championship fight. I also think you could just have one of the titles and not the lineal title too. But, you have to be the guy at some point in any division where you have fought. He had the opportunity to be the guy but fell short. So, he falls short of the Hall too.
I don't mean this to be a slight on the career of Carl. I just have a different standard for entering the Hall than some.
See and that's the problem. There is no criteria for induction. No mandate to even gauge by. A collection of suits get together and snort coke and drink beer and depending on the emotions of the moment they attempt to measure up. There are obvious defaults that everyone would agree on but they dont stop there.
They will induct Gatti but not Bennie Briscoe.
Bowe gets in but no Overlin
Mancini gets in but no Dejesus
McGuigan gets in but no Curry
Blackburn gets in for trainer of Louis but not as an atg lightweight. Its like he never got a title so he's exempt like many others but Gans owned it and there was only one to be had.
Everybody gets in and nobody does. I agree with you btw that its just to lax but should Ward get in for the Super 6 alone? He dominated a tournament of people lots believe should not be in the hall or be classed as Atg so why should he be eligible? How did Zivic get in? The guy lost 65 times.
Carl has done more then enough to qualify for the shifting foundations of the IBHF.
To all those saying Carl ducked Ward that's a laugh. He fought and lost to a prime one. Ward was on strike for 4 years while Carl fought on so again its Ward that for some reason wanted to fight a guy he already beat after resting for 1460 days and at the end of the mans career.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
See and that's the problem. There is no criteria for induction. No mandate to even gauge by. A collection of suits get together and snort coke and drink beer and depending on the emotions of the moment they attempt to measure up. There are obvious defaults that everyone would agree on but they dont stop there.
They will induct Gatti but not Bennie Briscoe.
Bowe gets in but no Overlin
Mancini gets in but no Dejesus
McGuigan gets in but no Curry
Blackburn gets in for trainer of Louis but not as an atg lightweight. Its like he never got a title so he's exempt like many others but Gans owned it and there was only one to be had.
Everybody gets in and nobody does. I agree with you btw that its just to lax but should Ward get in for the Super 6 alone? He dominated a tournament of people lots believe should not be in the hall or be classed as Atg so why should he be eligible? How did Zivic get in? The guy lost 65 times.
Carl has done more then enough to qualify for the shifting foundations of the IBHF.
To all those saying Carl ducked Ward that's a laugh. He fought and lost to a prime one. Ward was on strike for 4 years while Carl fought on so again its Ward that for some reason wanted to fight a guy he already beat after resting for 1460 days and at the end of the mans career.
All good points. The way I see it, the Hall of Fame is either 1) literally that, or 2) recognition of outstanding achievement in boxing. If the former, people like Gatti and perhaps Froch get in. If the latter, they don't. I am good with either definition but definitions don't have much meaning unless there is more or less unanimous agreement.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hmmfe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
See and that's the problem. There is no criteria for induction. No mandate to even gauge by. A collection of suits get together and snort coke and drink beer and depending on the emotions of the moment they attempt to measure up. There are obvious defaults that everyone would agree on but they dont stop there.
They will induct Gatti but not Bennie Briscoe.
Bowe gets in but no Overlin
Mancini gets in but no Dejesus
McGuigan gets in but no Curry
Blackburn gets in for trainer of Louis but not as an atg lightweight. Its like he never got a title so he's exempt like many others but Gans owned it and there was only one to be had.
Everybody gets in and nobody does. I agree with you btw that its just to lax but should Ward get in for the Super 6 alone? He dominated a tournament of people lots believe should not be in the hall or be classed as Atg so why should he be eligible? How did Zivic get in? The guy lost 65 times.
Carl has done more then enough to qualify for the shifting foundations of the IBHF.
To all those saying Carl ducked Ward that's a laugh. He fought and lost to a prime one. Ward was on strike for 4 years while Carl fought on so again its Ward that for some reason wanted to fight a guy he already beat after resting for 1460 days and at the end of the mans career.
All good points. The way I see it, the Hall of Fame is either 1) literally that, or 2) recognition of outstanding achievement in boxing. If the former, people like Gatti and perhaps Froch get in. If the latter, they don't. I am good with either definition but definitions don't have much meaning unless there is more or less unanimous agreement.
Yeah its a shame that those who decide dont have a criteria or even a basic code. That way they could tell the public what it is so it could then be applied both inside and outside it. It should not have to be so subjective. Does the fighter in question meet the criteria set forth in a mandate. They have no criteria and no mandate. That is why those that should get in dont and those that shouldn't do.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
There is alot of people that should not be in the hall of fame but they are i mean if it was meant for atg then yea not for Froch but it is not so he should get in. I mean the people in it are worse then the standard use to be so i guess might as well let all the good champs in.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hmmfe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Would you care to elaborate and do so objectively?
I'm not sure I can since the question is mostly a subjective one. But, I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame since he was not "the guy" in his division at any point during his career.
I suppose you could argue that someone need not be "the champ" in cases where he was avoided and did not ever get a championship fight. I also think you could just have one of the titles and not the lineal title too. But, you have to be the guy at some point in any division where you have fought. He had the opportunity to be the guy but fell short. So, he falls short of the Hall too.
I don't mean this to be a slight on the career of Carl. I just have a different standard for entering the Hall than some.
Right, so you have a higher standard for entry than the people who run the actual HOF and would presumably retrospectively eject the scores of people already in the hall who have achieved less than Carl Froch. Got you :)
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hmmfe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Would you care to elaborate and do so objectively?
I'm not sure I can since the question is mostly a subjective one. But, I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame since he was not "the guy" in his division at any point during his career.
I suppose you could argue that someone need not be "the champ" in cases where he was avoided and did not ever get a championship fight. I also think you could just have one of the titles and not the lineal title too. But, you have to be the guy at some point in any division where you have fought. He had the opportunity to be the guy but fell short. So, he falls short of the Hall too.
I don't mean this to be a slight on the career of Carl. I just have a different standard for entering the Hall than some.
Right, so you have a higher standard for entry than the people who run the actual HOF and would presumably retrospectively eject the scores of people already in the hall who have achieved less than Carl Froch. Got you :)
I'm really not looking to stir the shit up here, but I think you're being a touch harsh on hmmfe here. No doubt that with current standards, Froch will get in. In hmmfe's opinion , should he? no. Because hmmfe feels it should be more elite than that, and tbh I agree. That's not an insult to Froch personally, just a bit of a general observation.
That doesn't mean that hmmfe is looking to change the World or thinks he knows better than the powers that be and consequently wants to call up Sly Stallone for example and say "sorry Sly, you've never truly stepped in a ring in your life, you're out, but if Disney ever open up a "Boxing World, we'll give you a call."
He's just expressed an opinion and after all, that's what a forum is for , no? :)
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
"Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?"
If he buys a ticket, why not? Right guys? Yuk yuk yuk
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Right, so you have a higher standard for entry than the people who run the actual HOF
I suppose I do. Nothing wrong with that. I can't imagine there are a lot of people out there that have exactly the same standard as the "people who run the actual HOF". So, that would mean most people have a different standard - either higher or lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
and would presumably retrospectively eject the scores of people already in the hall who have achieved less than Carl Froch.
You presume too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Got you :)
No, I don't think you do.
Re: Should Carl Froch be admitted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?
Your is not whether Froch is good enough for the HOF, it's whether the HOF is good enough for you.
