Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Ward hasn't got the style to give significant height, weight, reach and general size to heavyweights.
Anyone that thinks he can compete with Joshua is having an absolute bubble. How is he possibly going to win? Pot shot from the outside? Grab/wrestle? Turn him up close? Funks sake, it's laughable, even if he got inside on Joshua he'd get tossed into the third row, they'd need to use reinforced corner posts and ropes.
Virgil Hunter wants it because he's shortly about to drop back into obscurity when Ward retires, might as well risk killing his man to make more dough in one night than they did their entire career put together.
I hear what you're saying, and I know it sounds crazy, but like I said, they wouldn't just line up a fight and go for it. They would be working out a strategy and trying it out on numerous BIG guys in the gym, and maybe then they would see that it ain't possible and that would be that.
BUT............if they thought they had a chance, they would go for it. Andre Ward would not go into a ring with anyone and make himself look a cunt.
All I'm saying, is that he thinks he has a chance, and it ever happened, then I think he has a shot.
I'm fully aware I could look a mug.;D
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Ward and Virgil specifically named Joshua for one reason and one reason only. If it was about winning a title at heavyweight he could easily take a few fights against fringe guys whilst waiting for a winnable title shot to emerge.
It's all nonsense anyway, waffle, something to get headlines, something to give all those youtubers constantly shoving camera's in their faces.
Having said that, at 200lb Ward could definitely beat some decent heavyweights. Huck gave Povetkin a tougher fight than most big fellas have. Fat James Toney beat plenty of "slow-ass" heavyweights. I could pick the heavyweights he could beat let alone Virgil and his team.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Ward and Virgil specifically named Joshua for one reason and one reason only. If it was about winning a title at heavyweight he could easily take a few fights against fringe guys whilst waiting for a winnable title shot to emerge.
It's all nonsense anyway, waffle, something to get headlines, something to give all those youtubers constantly shoving camera's in their faces.
Having said that, at 200lb Ward could definitely beat some decent heavyweights. Huck gave Povetkin a tougher fight than most big fellas have. Fat James Toney beat plenty of "slow-ass" heavyweights. I could pick the heavyweights he could beat let alone Virgil and his team.
Like you said, Hunter mentioned Joshua specifically. Maybe it is all nonsense, but it definitely isn't about another trinket. He knows Joshua is the cash cow, and if he's gonna do it (which I have to admit is seriously doubtful.) he's gonna want to get paid proper money for it.
Ward has never been afraid to fight the best , but sometimes the financial side of things have got in the way.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Maybe Ward is putting it out there that he is available to fight and waiting for a silly offer.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
So does Dre stand a chance against AJ ?
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
Bullshit, but not all Bullshit. FAT people are different from BIG people. Bone density is the strength and weight of your frame/skeleton, has nothing to do with muscles or how much fat around it you have.
For example the difference between Fallon Fox (transgender MMA fighter) and the women he/she faces. She may be the same weight, same height and even the same reach. HOWEVER, her bone strength and density is FAR GREATER than any woman he/she has faced. Which gives he a distinct advantage over the women he/she faces, regardless of what the scales say or how good her opposition's muscles look or how tall they are.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Fat people be taxed harsher than everyone else..bit off topic, but it would work.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
Bullshit, but not all Bullshit. FAT people are different from BIG people. Bone density is the strength and weight of your frame/skeleton, has nothing to do with muscles or how much fat around it you have.
For example the difference between Fallon Fox (transgender MMA fighter) and the women he/she faces. She may be the same weight, same height and even the same reach. HOWEVER, her bone strength and density is FAR GREATER than any woman he/she has faced. Which gives he a distinct advantage over the women he/she faces, regardless of what the scales say or how good her opposition's muscles look or how tall they are.
Fat people are different than big people, true. But the larger people are the higher their body fat percentages are. And body fat is directly related to bone density. You are speaking of tensile strength not bone density. Bone density is quite literally the density of your bones. The strength and weight of your bones is quite literally not bone density.
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
So does Dre stand a chance against AJ ?
No
Re: Andre Ward at heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
I just can't see Ward lasting against AJ, Ortiz or Wilder for over 5 rounds. Strength, weight advantage, bone structure and density as well as speed.
Ward may just be talking. What I have come to understand in the heavier division it is about bone structure and bone density, which helps to absorb punishment and be stronger to dish out punishment. Ward is a good Super-Middle, and would have been a dominant Middle if he decided to fight there.
Heavier people don't have higher bone density. In fact the higher your fat content the lower the bone density. And heavier people have higher body fat percentages.
You can adjust your bone density by training. Adaptive stress, same as with muscles. But a bigger person is generally going to have worse stamina allowing them to put less stress. Yes, a higher weight seems like more stress but it is met with bigger bones balancing that out.(larger, not more dense) The smaller guy will train harder, faster, longer, and with this have more adaptation.
So in short, big guys have less bone density.
Bullshit, but not all Bullshit. FAT people are different from BIG people. Bone density is the strength and weight of your frame/skeleton, has nothing to do with muscles or how much fat around it you have.
For example the difference between Fallon Fox (transgender MMA fighter) and the women he/she faces. She may be the same weight, same height and even the same reach. HOWEVER, her bone strength and density is FAR GREATER than any woman he/she has faced. Which gives he a distinct advantage over the women he/she faces, regardless of what the scales say or how good her opposition's muscles look or how tall they are.
Fat people are different than big people, true. But the larger people are the higher their body fat percentages are. And body fat is directly related to bone density. You are speaking of tensile strength not bone density. Bone density is quite literally the density of your bones. The strength and weight of your bones is quite literally not bone density.
Nope. I'm talking about bone density, tensile strength is something a little different, but not all out of the discussion as it does prove more of a point- in that some people can be fat, but that weight or even muscle mass may equal to strength and durability in the ring. I think that's why we had weight classes in the first place and why boxing is a fitness sport even by casual participants.
Bone density better encapsulates jaw and eye-socket breakage, neck reverberation and whiplash, broken hands and more resounding effects from temple and nose shots.
Tensile strength does not encapsulate that, in fact it is not even a part of the dynamic in durability and punch-resistance as it is an opposite measurability of durability. In fact, you may want to say compressive strength, which bone density may be more comparable to and what may be more in line to your train of though.
