Mind the Gap

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Is it not true that birth rates are higher in poor countries and that most of the refugees are economic migrants? That is quite true.

The book is literature, it is not political analysis. I think you need to actually read Murray's book rather than read articles that jump aspects of tiny parts of it. Murray himself admits that the book you are quoting from has become decried as racist, but the general point I made in my first sentence above is the key one.

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Stop backtracking. First you blame the extreme rise in wealth inequality in the UK on Migrants. Then you quote a well known white supremacist Islamaphobe to further distract from the main reasons, a man like you who uses propaganda and lies to silence anyone who does not subscribe to his rampant xenophobia. Then when some of the source material that Bannon, Murray and Now YOU claim to be prophetic is shown quite clearly to be a racist piece of garbage you are revealed as the idealogue using lies to defend your racism.

No it is not true that most of the Refugees in Europe are economic migrants. Most of them are from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 10 years but you would like to pretend that white Europeans and their pasty American counterparts had no part in that.

Stop blaming your bilious pessimistic defeatist ignorant attitude on migrants. Europe has not signed up to you emo self centered death trope just because you would like to live in la la land. Europe was never the exclusive home of white people you moronic gammon head.

Your arguments are very weak. You clearly know very little of the topic you are attempting to debate.

1.Prove that the refugees are genuine refugees.
2. Prove that they mostly come from those countries.
3. Prove that they are not economic migrants.
4. Explain why the people of Europe have an obligation to take any of them in.
5. Prove that migration does not cost a substantial.amount of money.
6. Prove that migrants are not lying about their age.
7. Prove that rises in violent crime is not caused by migrants throughout many parts of Europe.
8. Tell me where the Europeans can call their home.

Show me data. Give me reasons. Tell me why I am wrong without resorting to weak slander nor ad hominem.

And nope, I have never supported any of the illegal wars. I am NOT responsible for any of those conflicts. If Lilly Allen wants to take in a refugee she is perfectly welcome to, but she changed her mind. Surprise, surprise.

He's banned already?!?!? That was fast



What for? Mods, I'd like an explanation if one of you would be so kind...you can DM me if that suits you better.

That was an unfair ban. The guy was Russian that’s how they talk.

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Originally Posted by walrus

That was an unfair ban. The guy was Russian that’s how they talk.

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Was he?


I mean it doesn't much matter, he pulled the same bullcrap Beanz pulled, but was more honest about his emotions.


I wanted to ask if the countries the immigrants are leaving are such shitholes then why is it men aged 18-35 as the LARGEST group of those migrating? What kind of MAN leaves behind their wives, children, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, etc and why the fuck would we want to import such cowards?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by walrus

That was an unfair ban. The guy was Russian that’s how they talk.

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Was he?


I mean it doesn't much matter, he pulled the same bullcrap Beanz pulled, but was more honest about his emotions.


I wanted to ask if the countries the immigrants are leaving are such shitholes then why is it men aged 18-35 as the LARGEST group of those migrating? What kind of MAN leaves behind their wives, children, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, etc and why the fuck would we want to import such cowards?

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I'm sure there's a lot of bad apples who migrate in order to cause trouble in their new country. But then there's this.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...conomic-force/


I had previously read an article about migrants to places like Dubai, among others, where the driving purpose was to make a livelihood for themselves they were unable to do in their own country. They leave their families behind, yes... but mostly to send back money that otherwise they'd be unable to provide.

Just pointing out that immigration is never an all-or-nothing deal. It's up to immigration officials and government to sift out the good from the bad.

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Originally Posted by Джем Мейс

all Indians have brought to the UK is cuisine.

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Well, that's just silly.

There was a bike, I think it was like a Grifter or a Chopper, that was called the 'Tomahawk'. We named lots of women Sue (though it believe it should be Sioux). People shout 'Geronimo' when they parachute out of 'planes, people from Dudley call a sink a 'bison', and all British kids do that woo woo woo noise when they get the palm of their hand into their lips repeatedly

Hiw dare you downplay Indian contribution to U.K. Culture!

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I'm sure there's a lot of bad apples who migrate in order to cause trouble in their new country. But then there's this.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...conomic-force/


I had previously read an article about migrants to places like Dubai, among others, where the driving purpose was to make a livelihood for themselves they were unable to do in their own country. They leave their families behind, yes... but mostly to send back money that otherwise they'd be unable to provide.

Just pointing out that immigration is never an all-or-nothing deal. It's up to immigration officials and government to sift out the good from the bad.

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Or get away from dealing with the consequences of their poor behavior in their previous country....yeah LOTS of those guys. The Cuban Boat lift....LOTS OF THOSE GUYS. Just Fidel saying "Fuck let's empty out the prisons" where sure there are some political prisoners, but mostly gang members, violent criminals, thugs.


Yyyyyyeeeeeaaaaah they send money back, but the people they're sending money back to are still in a shithole country. Remember we law abiding citizens are told "These people are escaping the horrors of the third world" "they're fleeing war torn countries"......and they're LEAVING BEHIND THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.....your "Awww, but they send money back" doesn't much change the shithole or war torn part of their former nation.


And again....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE


I cannot stress that enough, but hey whatevs

Ok so let's talk percentages.

What percentage of these 18-35 year old men are leaving their "shithole" countries to go and ravage their new country with pillaging, terrorism and rape?

98%? 99%? 99.5%?

Because all I'm saying is I don't believe in the all-or-nothing. But it seems you want to drive the argument there.

What percentage?

Mind you, that would leave 1% or less as actual decent people.

Just how many of you assholes knew that was Beanz that started this thread? So let me get this straight, he ASKS to be banned, he can't handle it so he comes back posing as a Russian/Ukrainian, and then you guys ban him but don't say "Hey guys this is how pathetic Beanz actually is....I know you thought he was a bit of a mess before this, but no really he's a fucking Fruit Loop so watch your backs because he might try some Single White Female/Fatal Attraction shit next" ......I mean REALLY, were yall just going to keep that shit a secret?

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Ok so let's talk percentages.

What percentage of these 18-35 year old men are leaving their "shithole" countries to go and ravage their new country with pillaging, terrorism and rape?

98%? 99%? 99.5%?

Because all I'm saying is I don't believe in the all-or-nothing. But it seems you want to drive the argument there.

What percentage?

Mind you, that would leave 1% or less as actual decent people.

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Well to be honest what I personally would like is for America to fix the homeless crisis we already have, help out veterans, help quell the Opioid/Heroin addiction that's currently killing 72,000 people a year.....you know before we start worrying about the problems of other nations.


18-35 year old men should be changing their governments BY FORCE if necessary. The United States ain't the baby sitter of the world. If their countries are fucked up then why not have the PRIDE to change things for the better there? When Hurricane Maria came and fucked Puerto Rico up....you and your family didn't leave, you rolled up your sleeves and got to making shit right and that my friend is commendable, it shows heart, loyalty, grace under fire, commitment to your HOME, pride in your HOME....I'm not saying 100% of everyone stay put, but bruh, women & children off the sinking ships first. How is anything going to be accomplished in the nations these folks flee from without men aged 18-35? That's the workforce, that's the police force, that's the military, that's the lifeblood of a nation and they're leaving......send money back for what? To what? What are they trying to get their families to be the wealthiest poor people? It makes no sense.


All I want is for them to follow our laws should they want to come here. Which means go to the US Embassy in your nation, apply for asylum or citizenship or a green card or what have you by the LEGAL route, the respectable route....I'd be all for making it less of a hassle for folks to come in legally maybe it would curb the bullshit sneaking across the borders, but dude these folks aren't free to treat with healthcare, they aren't free to teach, they aren't free to feed, they aren't free to charge criminally and detain.....these folks cost money that taxpayers would rather use on veterans, the elderly, our OWN problems not the ones we let sneak in.....how is that bad, horrible, racist, bigoted, hateful? The world is a shitty place, there's a distinct gap of capitalism/freedom/liberty which is unevenly spread around the globe that's the crux of the problem.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Just how many of you assholes knew that was Beanz that started this thread? So let me get this straight, he ASKS to be banned, he can't handle it so he comes back posing as a Russian/Ukrainian, and then you guys ban him but don't say "Hey guys this is how pathetic Beanz actually is....I know you thought he was a bit of a mess before this, but no really he's a fucking Fruit Loop so watch your backs because he might try some Single White Female/Fatal Attraction shit next" ......I mean REALLY, were yall just going to keep that shit a secret?

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Ok so let's talk percentages.

What percentage of these 18-35 year old men are leaving their "shithole" countries to go and ravage their new country with pillaging, terrorism and rape?

98%? 99%? 99.5%?

Because all I'm saying is I don't believe in the all-or-nothing. But it seems you want to drive the argument there.

What percentage?

Mind you, that would leave 1% or less as actual decent people.

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Well to be honest what I personally would like is for America to fix the homeless crisis we already have, help out veterans, help quell the Opioid/Heroin addiction that's currently killing 72,000 people a year.....you know before we start worrying about the problems of other nations.


18-35 year old men should be changing their governments BY FORCE if necessary. The United States ain't the baby sitter of the world. If their countries are fucked up then why not have the PRIDE to change things for the better there? When Hurricane Maria came and fucked Puerto Rico up....you and your family didn't leave, you rolled up your sleeves and got to making shit right and that my friend is commendable, it shows heart, loyalty, grace under fire, commitment to your HOME, pride in your HOME....I'm not saying 100% of everyone stay put, but bruh, women & children off the sinking ships first. How is anything going to be accomplished in the nations these folks flee from without men aged 18-35? That's the workforce, that's the police force, that's the military, that's the lifeblood of a nation and they're leaving......send money back for what? To what? What are they trying to get their families to be the wealthiest poor people? It makes no sense.


All I want is for them to follow our laws should they want to come here. Which means go to the US Embassy in your nation, apply for asylum or citizenship or a green card or what have you by the LEGAL route, the respectable route....I'd be all for making it less of a hassle for folks to come in legally maybe it would curb the bullshit sneaking across the borders, but dude these folks aren't free to treat with healthcare, they aren't free to teach, they aren't free to feed, they aren't free to charge criminally and detain.....these folks cost money that taxpayers would rather use on veterans, the elderly, our OWN problems not the ones we let sneak in.....how is that bad, horrible, racist, bigoted, hateful? The world is a shitty place, there's a distinct gap of capitalism/freedom/liberty which is unevenly spread around the globe that's the crux of the problem.

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When Maria ran us over worse than we've ever been run over before, make no mistake about it... many people did leave. Usually whole families, looking to get a fresh start somewhere else. Having the benefit of U.S. citizenship, many moved to the States. Some have come back. But yeah... most of us just bore down and went about the process of rebuilding what had been destroyed, and making it better. Staying or leaving is a personal choice... and I myself don't criticize those who left.

I get that the world's problems aren't distributed evenly across the globe, just like I get that a nation has every right to protect its borders and its way of life. I've never said otherwise. But there seems to be a general panic with anything having to do with immigrants. Which is ironic if you think about it, because the vast majority of us come from families who have immigrated at one point or another in history. Before you respond, I get it that immigrants back in the day are by and large different from a lot of modern immigrants. But they were immigrants just the same. And they had to face down a lot of grief, heartache, obstacles in the form of huge "Not Welcome" mats (figuratively speaking), prejudice, and a lot of other things. So anger and resentment toward immigrants is nothing new.

Yes... the U.S. has plenty of its own problems to fix. But nobody is asking them to give anyone a free ride. If you don't/can't contribute to your new society, you have no business going there. See that's the thing with these arguments. Maybe not you, but someone like Miles immediately goes off the deep end thinking that I'm advocating throwing the gates wide open. Where have I ever said that. I'll pay actual money to anyone who can find a quote from me saying such a thing. I just like to temper arguments that become emotional hot buttons, because IMO nothing good ever comes from emotional arguments. I believe there's a way around just about anything... we only need to sit down and figure it out.

At least the U.S. is geographically distinct from European countries, including the UK. The U.S. basically has to worry about the Mexican border, and that's pretty much it. Speaking of which, I'm not in favor...... repeat..... not in favor of throwing out the welcome mat to these caravans and offering coffee on the way in. But in other threads I was having to defend the position of not "mowing down the toothless, smelly, illiterate peasants" against someone else on this forum. And when I would complain about the stupidity of such a plan..... all I got in return was that I was saying throw them the welcome mat and offer them coffee. Hardly the way to carry on an adult conversation. Thankfully he's not around at the moment for me to have to argue like that.

Tito, I have always said 'Sensible, moderate migration' is fine. What has happened in Europe is awful though. I have a friend living in Belgium who sent me an email saying just how bad it was there. He was saying where could he and his family go if it does not stop? China? I told him that wouldn't happen. The Philippines? The thing is Europe is the only home Europeans can be certain of. To destroy it as is currently happening is treason and none of it needed to happen.

You have migrants claiming to be kids. They are not kids. You have migrants claiming to be from Syria. They do not speak the dialect. Many have purposely ditched paperwork and still been let in. This is not immigration, it is an NGO sponsored orgy and that Europeans have to put up with it is appalling. They are rightly angry.

Let's not pretend that this is immigration. It is tantamount to an invasion.

I disagree it’s panic and hysteria. It’s not panic wanting at least enforce existing laws and even fixing our crazy immigration laws that let people run about the country with applications pending relying on them to show up for scheduled court dates.the Current system has allowed for 30 million illegals in our country. It really makes no sense

Let me be clear. I am all for Europe protecting its borders and its way of life. The wife and I visited there about 4 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed our stay. We plan to go back, maybe even live there temporarily.... we'll see. The whole time I was there, and several times before on business, I felt safe and loved the diversity between the different countries. It's only been in recent years that I've read about and heard about the rise in terrorism and the immigration crisis. Yes... a tough stance should be adopted. What I'll always resist and oppose is the blanket statements made of other cultures and people. It smacks of ignorance just rounding people up and cubbyholing them. That's not the way real life is. Complex problems require complex, well thought-out solutions. Simply going to the extremes is not going to help anybody. That's all I'm saying.