What if? Floyd Mayweather vs 1981 Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Lyle its that simple cc

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Thanks bud, cc back

Floyd is going to go down in history just like Mike Tyson (providing he retires before fighters start figuring him out)...Overrated

Being REAL about boxers is tough to do but if you're going to make the assessment you have to.

Floyd is very fast and talented with his defense but Ray Leonard was just as fast and had power as well....and not to mention he beat ALL-TIME GREATS!!!!

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CC on that excellent point. No matter how good he is PBF needs some Marquee names on his list. Corrales, Gatti, Castillo aren't going to be good enough all greats have those real big names

Leonard--Hearns, Benitez, Hagler, Duran

Ali--Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Patterson,

Robinson--Bassillio, Archer, LaMotta

Guys that for some reason were legends themselves by time their career is over....

Another problem is that unlike those other eras though anyone in the top 10 was considered good not like today where the cream of the crop is so scattered

And it's not like Floyd hasn't had those names availible to him: Oscar De la Hoya, Shane Mosley, and Kostya Tszyu are a few of the guys he didn't fight.

De la Hoya is a great name to have on your record

Zab Judah wasn't a bad one either but not right after he lost to Carlos Baldomir!!!

A comment by Scrap made me realize that alot of guys may havent seen much of Leonard. If they did, they probobly saw clips of his fights with Hearns and Hagler. Those fights dont give a true representation of Leonards style. Against Hearns, Ray had to go outside his fight plan to get to Hearns. Against Hagler, he fought in the only style that would give him a chance against Marvin.

Here is clip of Ray against a tough Brit named Davey "Boy" Green. Granted, I dont classify Green as a great welter, but dare I say I put him a notch above the Gatti and Baldomir that Floyd has faced recently.

Its a nice display of footwork, combos, speed and power. I think you'll dig it. :)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=6__DmwNFTfU

If any of you guys could work the magic of bringing the youtube screen up, I'd appreciate it. Me not to smart. :-[

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

What did I say? Anyone worth a damn before the 14th. Let's not try to put Donnie and Ayub in the same category with Pretty Boy.

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I don't think he is putting LaLonde in the same catagory as Mayweather...But with you getting over your soap box preaching and dismissing everyone elses statements but yours why don't you read the point!!!!

He said good fighters...LaLonde was pretty good...and just in case you forgot...IT WAS AT LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT!!!!!!!!
Floyd lacks KO power at 147 let alone 4 divisions above....
and if you say Floyd can KO a top light heavy then you lose all credibility on any post from here on out.....even PBF most die hard fans would not make that statement

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Point out where I said Floyd had more power than Ray and then come talk to me. Until then, shut the f@#k up! Thank you and goodbye ;)

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I don't think I ever said you did say that did I? But no again ou do not read correctly and understand what people are saying. The power was just a point. A point that witout any real speed advantage and no power advantage Floyd is the underdog...CAN YOU UNDERSTAND NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN YOU READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I don't know who you are telling to shut the F%$# up you little piss ant....Maybe if you weren't so illiterate things would not have to be broken down to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I S*&% out more boxing knowledge in the morning than you do now or could ever hope to have so come back when you grow up and can act like a big boy. Till then head on to a pro wrestling site it doesn't matter what you say in those forums its all bullshit anyway

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Are you still talking? I thought I told you to shut the f@#k up :lickish:

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Originally Posted by right_cross

A comment by Scrap made me realize that alot of guys may havent seen much of Leonard. If they did, they probobly saw clips of his fights with Hearns and Hagler. Those fights dont give a true representation of Leonards style. Against Hearns, Ray had to go outside his fight plan to get to Hearns. Against Hagler, he fought in the only style that would give him a chance against Marvin.

Here is clip of Ray against a tough Brit named Davey "Boy" Green. Granted, I dont classify Green as a great welter, but dare I say I put him a notch above the Gatti and Baldomir that Floyd has faced recently.

Its a nice display of footwork, combos, speed and power. I think you'll dig it. :)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=6__DmwNFTfU

If any of you guys could work the magic of bringing the youtube screen up, I'd appreciate it. Me not to smart. :-[

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Um, dude, Dave Green is not even on par with a Carlos Baldomir, much less a notch above.

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Originally Posted by ImRipped

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Originally Posted by right_cross

A comment by Scrap made me realize that alot of guys may havent seen much of Leonard. If they did, they probobly saw clips of his fights with Hearns and Hagler. Those fights dont give a true representation of Leonards style. Against Hearns, Ray had to go outside his fight plan to get to Hearns. Against Hagler, he fought in the only style that would give him a chance against Marvin.

Here is clip of Ray against a tough Brit named Davey "Boy" Green. Granted, I dont classify Green as a great welter, but dare I say I put him a notch above the Gatti and Baldomir that Floyd has faced recently.

Its a nice display of footwork, combos, speed and power. I think you'll dig it. :)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=6__DmwNFTfU

If any of you guys could work the magic of bringing the youtube screen up, I'd appreciate it. Me not to smart. :-[

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Um, dude, Dave Green is not even on par with a Carlos Baldomir, much less a notch above.

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Wont argue with you on that, but Baldo never impressed me as much more than a club fighter who got his day in the sun.

Dave Green beat John StraceyWho beat Jose Napoles so he wasnt that bad

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Dave Green beat John StraceyWho beat Jose Napoles so he wasnt that bad

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Laurent Boudouani beat Terry Norris who beat Sugar Ray Leonard so he must be a Hall of Famer.

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Originally Posted by skyler

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Dave Green beat John StraceyWho beat Jose Napoles so he wasnt that bad

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Laurent Boudouani beat Terry Norris who beat Sugar Ray Leonard so he must be a Hall of Famer.

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Mate you said that Floyd would embarrass SRL, thats stupid. I cant think of a fighter at welter IN HISTORY that would 'embarrass' SRL.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by skyler

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Dave Green beat John StraceyWho beat Jose Napoles so he wasnt that bad

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Laurent Boudouani beat Terry Norris who beat Sugar Ray Leonard so he must be a Hall of Famer.

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Mate you said that Floyd would embarrass SRL, thats stupid. I cant think of a fighter at welter IN HISTORY that would 'embarrass' SRL.

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I can't either, except Floyd Mayweather, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Pernell Whitaker.

I know somebody who would have beaten those three.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

I know somebody who would have beaten those three.

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Somebody named........

In 81 when Leonard beat Hearns those 2 were the best welters Id ever seen Id been in the game20 years then, the last 30 years theres nothing Ive seen that would make me change my mind

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Floyd is going to go down in history just like Mike Tyson (providing he retires before fighters start figuring him out)...Overrated

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OVERRATTED??? Oh like your Boy Wlad Klit??? Yea thats him Mr China chin himself...Ruler of the paper division. 8) Man Lyle your hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes...

You rag on Floyds style but your so fast to point out Willie Pep being a G.O.A.T and PFP one of the best ever.... and he admited himself This coming out of Willie Peps Mouth and I Quote

" MY FIGHT STYLE.. HE WHO HITS AND RUNS AWAY LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY....SO THATS WHAT I DID FOR 29 YEARS, I TRIED TO HIT AND RUN....I GOT AWAY WITH IT"

So one fighter you like fights a certain way but another does a little of the same and you diss him..... ::**

To call Mayweather OVERATTED, is not just ridiculous but total insanity...I mean C'mon man

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Originally Posted by Scrap

In 81 when Leonard beat Hearns those 2 were the best welters Id ever seen Id been in the game20 years then, the last 30 years theres nothing Ive seen that would make me change my mind

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So are you saying Leonard and Hearns were the two best welters you have ever seen? Very good choices, who you rate higher?

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

OVERRATTED???  Oh like your Boy Wlad Klit??? Yea thats him Mr China chin himself...Ruler of the paper division.   8) Man Lyle your hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes...

You rag on Floyds style but your so fast to point out Willie Pep being a G.O.A.T and PFP one of the best ever.... and he admited himself This coming out of Willie Peps Mouth and I Quote

" MY FIGHT STYLE.. HE WHO HITS AND RUNS AWAY LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY....SO THATS WHAT I DID FOR 29 YEARS, I TRIED TO HIT AND RUN....I GOT AWAY WITH IT"

So one fighter you like fights a certain way but another does a little of the same and you diss him..... ::**

To call Mayweather OVERATTED, is not just ridiculous but total insanity...I mean C'mon man 

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I have not called Wladimir an all-time great...and the fact you always bring me being a fan of his up to debunk my point of view is sorry and just goes to show you have NO argument against me....."but but but you like Wladimir".....yeah and what does it have to do with FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR......at least Wlad stepped up to the plate and fought some challenges in his career!

Yes I think of Willie Pep as one of the P4P greatest of all time HOWEVER...he used his defense more than his legs.

Willie Pep was never lackluster, he was never boring, he didn't put fans to sleep....Floyd does that, Floyd doesn't feint and bob and weave too much....Floyd Mayweather Jr lays back in his little philly shell defense and waits.....or he runs around.

Willie Pep was active in the ring and when he outclassed someone he worked hard to do it, to do his best....if he could KO them, he did it. Floyd doesn't even TRY....why pay the guy any money if he's not even going to try.

Willie Pep also met challenges....Sandy Saddler anyone??? And that was AFTER a life threatening plane crash!!!!

Floyd has done fuck all with the talent he has!


AND TO COMPARE FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR TO WILLIE PEP IS OUTRIGHT BLASPHEMY!

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

OVERRATTED??? Oh like your Boy Wlad Klit??? Yea thats him Mr China chin himself...Ruler of the paper division. 8) Man Lyle your hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes...

You rag on Floyds style but your so fast to point out Willie Pep being a G.O.A.T and PFP one of the best ever.... and he admited himself This coming out of Willie Peps Mouth and I Quote

" MY FIGHT STYLE.. HE WHO HITS AND RUNS AWAY LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY....SO THATS WHAT I DID FOR 29 YEARS, I TRIED TO HIT AND RUN....I GOT AWAY WITH IT"

So one fighter you like fights a certain way but another does a little of the same and you diss him..... ::**

To call Mayweather OVERATTED, is not just ridiculous but total insanity...I mean C'mon man

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I have not called Wladimir an all-time great

Yes I think of Willie Pep as one of the P4P greatest of all time HOWEVER...he used his defense more than his legs.

Willie Pep was never lackluster, he was never boring, he didn't put fans to sleep....Floyd does that, Floyd doesn't feint and bob and weave too much....Floyd Mayweather Jr lays back in his little philly shell defense and waits.....or he runs around.

Willie Pep was active in the ring and when he outclassed someone he worked hard to do it, to do his best....if he could KO them, he did it. Floyd doesn't even TRY....why pay the guy any money if he's not even going to try.

Willie Pep also met challenges....Sandy Sadler anyone??? And that was AFTER a life threatening plane crash!!!!

Floyd has done F*** all with the talent he has!

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Yea at 28 he such a colossal waste of talent ::** Also you are so completely wrong and shows you know zip about Mayweather.... Philly Shell??? Oh yea cause he fought Baldomir hurt his hand and decided to humiliate Baldomir and make him look like Frankenstein for the last 6 rounds...Basically beating him with one hand tied behind his back...

and That was 1 Friggin match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me who he fought and ran???? He has one hell of a Ko percentage for being a runner.... Your just hating Lyle....

You got 0 to back up any of this up.....

Floyd is an exceptional Feinter and bobs and weaves better than anyone since he has turned pro especially on the ropes... Get over it man ::**

I'm not talking about ONE match dude....I'm talking WHOLE CAREER.

I didn't expect PBF to KO Carlos Baldomir....I did however expect Floyd to WORK for the win and not just coast for 12 rounds....hurt hand or not!

I got 0 to back it up? He right NOW admittedly at the end of his career is FINALLY fighting a Great fighter.

For being p4p or as great as he thinks he is, that plain FACT is depressing when looking over his career.

Floyd has the talent of a great fighter I am not sold on his heart....and his dedication to the fans. His dedication to being in fighting shape is amazing but hell Jack Lalane is 90 and he's in amazing shape, it doesn't make him a great boxer though.

I question his desire to achieve....to really WORK to be great. He has very seldom been tested and it sounds like I am really hating but check it...when you are a great you have to seek out challenge. Oppertunity doesn't just come to you, you have to find it and defeat it and only then can you be great.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I'm not talking about ONE match dude....I'm talking WHOLE CAREER.

I didn't expect PBF to KO Carlos Baldomir....I did however expect Floyd to WORK for the win and not just coast for 12 rounds....hurt hand or not!

I got 0 to back it up? He right NOW admittedly at the end of his career is FINALLY fighting a Great fighter.

For being p4p or as great as he thinks he is, that plain FACT is depressing when looking over his career.

Floyd has the talent of a great fighter I am not sold on his heart....and his dedication to the fans. His dedication to being in fighting shape is amazing but hell Jack Lalane is 90 and he's in amazing shape, it doesn't make him a great boxer though.

I question his desire to achieve....to really WORK to be great. He has very seldom been tested and it sounds like I am really hating but check it...when you are a great you have to seek out challenge. Oppertunity doesn't just come to you, you have to find it and defeat it and only then can you be great.

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I really dont think anyone is particularly sold on him retiring after Delahoya at least I'm not.....I get so agitated when people(not you) bring up these 3 fighters that Floyds greatness runs through

Margarito

Cotto

Hatton

You know what all 3 of those guys have in common???? I'll tell you...In the next month all 3 of them have tough fights that arent gimmes...I for one will wait till the outcomes before I utter these guys deserving a shot at Floyd..

especially Margarito.. Outside of this who would get Floyd to acceptable status in your eyes

JT, thanks for agreeing to disagree...CC

As for the guys like Hatton, Cotto, Margarito....if you look back to Ray Leonard (oddly enough) you'll find he took on a YOUNG, TALENTED, POWER PUNCHING, DANGEROUS, SEEMINGLY INVINCIBLE, UNDEFEATED fighter by the name of Tommy Hearns.

Ray didn't have too much left to prove but the CHALLENGE OF THE FIGHT drove Ray Leonard to take on Tommy Hearns and he had to work really hard to win that fight. He had to overcome adversity to triumph.....that's what people are waiting for Floyd to do.


Floyd has all the talent in the world I am just waiting for him to get in with someone who is going to make him use 110% of that talent....someone that's going to push him to the brink of quitting. Jose Luis Castillo is the only one that has even come close so far. And I don't know if it's just how much better Floyd is that the other guys or if he's scared to get a 1 in the L column....that's my concern, I never have decided...why not fight Oscar? Why not fight Shane Mosely?

If Floyd is truely the best he'll be willing to prove it and that's all the fans ask for.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

JT, thanks for agreeing to disagree...CC

As for the guys like Hatton, Cotto, Margarito....if you look back to Ray Leonard (oddly enough) you'll find he took on a YOUNG, TALENTED, POWER PUNCHING, DANGEROUS, SEEMINGLY INVINCIBLE, UNDEFEATED fighter by the name of Tommy Hearns.

Ray didn't have too much left to prove but the CHALLENGE OF THE FIGHT drove Ray Leonard to take on Tommy Hearns and he had to work really hard to win that fight. He had to overcome adversity to triumph.....that's what people are waiting for Floyd to do.


Floyd has all the talent in the world I am just waiting for him to get in with someone who is going to make him use 110% of that talent....someone that's going to push him to the brink of quitting. Jose Luis Castillo is the only one that has even come close so far. And I don't know if it's just how much better Floyd is that the other guys or if he's scared to get a 1 in the L column....that's my concern, I never have decided...why not fight Oscar? Why not fight Shane Mosely?

If Floyd is truely the best he'll be willing to prove it and that's all the fans ask for.

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Its hard when Floyd dosent have a bona fied nemesis like Tommy Hearns, Joe Frazier Jake Lamotta etc YET

It could be Cotto, Hatton or Margarito but not yet..

:coolclick: back by the way

...it is hard, but you have top search those guys out.

If he had to move divisions or whatever he had to find someone good to fight. Tszyu, Oscar, Mosley, ....people called for him to fight Spadafora....Dorin. Those guys aren't GREAT by any means but they are more of a challenge than Miguel Melo and Sam Girad

I look at Floyd's record and see a lack of great fighters but also a lack of really GOOD fighters....there are some has beens and never was' but Floyd really didn't spend too much time during his prime (which is now) finding opponents to make his record stand out like Great fighters like Oscar De la Hoya and Shane Mosley did.

Floyd must understand he could take a loss in doing this but taking a chance is worth the risk....as long as he doesn't move up to light heavyweight or anything stupid like that

I think Ray Leonard's brightest moment as a pro which showed his great talents was his unbelievable performance against Aaron Pryor when he, oh wait, that's right, Ray ducked Aaron.

sorry

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Originally Posted by ImRipped

I think Ray Leonard's brightest moment as a pro which showed his great talents was his unbelievable performance against Aaron Pryor when he, oh wait, that's right, Ray ducked Aaron.

sorry

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I could make a case that Pryor fought at 140 in his prime and Ray at 147. Pryor never stepped up to 147 to push the challange. But I wont do that.

In fact I agree with you. Ray wanted nothing to do with Pryor. But then again, who did? Prime Pryor was an animal. The only fighter with the balls to fight him was Arguello, who moved up to 140 to face him. We all know how that turned out.

If a prime Pryor was fighting today at 140, I'd say Floyd would be spending a great deal of time in the sweatbox to stay at 135. ;D

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by Scrap

In 81 when Leonard beat Hearns those 2 were the best welters Id ever seen Id been in the game20 years then, the last 30 years theres nothing Ive seen that would make me change my mind

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So are you saying Leonard and Hearns were the two best welters you have ever seen? Very good choices, who you rate higher?

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I have never seen him in person due to the time gap of course but I Have seen many of his fights on film or tape and I don't care what anyone says...Ray Robinson at 147 is the most amazing man I have ever seen to put on a pair og gloves...at 147 or anyother weight

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

OVERRATTED??? Oh like your Boy Wlad Klit??? Yea thats him Mr China chin himself...Ruler of the paper division. 8) Man Lyle your hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes...

You rag on Floyds style but your so fast to point out Willie Pep being a G.O.A.T and PFP one of the best ever.... and he admited himself This coming out of Willie Peps Mouth and I Quote

" MY FIGHT STYLE.. HE WHO HITS AND RUNS AWAY LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY....SO THATS WHAT I DID FOR 29 YEARS, I TRIED TO HIT AND RUN....I GOT AWAY WITH IT"

So one fighter you like fights a certain way but another does a little of the same and you diss him..... ::**

To call Mayweather OVERATTED, is not just ridiculous but total insanity...I mean C'mon man

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I have not called Wladimir an all-time great

Yes I think of Willie Pep as one of the P4P greatest of all time HOWEVER...he used his defense more than his legs.

Willie Pep was never lackluster, he was never boring, he didn't put fans to sleep....Floyd does that, Floyd doesn't feint and bob and weave too much....Floyd Mayweather Jr lays back in his little philly shell defense and waits.....or he runs around.

Willie Pep was active in the ring and when he outclassed someone he worked hard to do it, to do his best....if he could KO them, he did it. Floyd doesn't even TRY....why pay the guy any money if he's not even going to try.

Willie Pep also met challenges....Sandy Sadler anyone??? And that was AFTER a life threatening plane crash!!!!

Floyd has done F*** all with the talent he has!

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Yea at 28 he such a colossal waste of talent ::** Also you are so completely wrong and shows you know zip about Mayweather.... Philly Shell??? Oh yea cause he fought Baldomir hurt his hand and decided to humiliate Baldomir and make him look like Frankenstein for the last 6 rounds...Basically beating him with one hand tied behind his back...

and That was 1 Friggin match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me who he fought and ran???? He has one hell of a Ko percentage for being a runner.... Your just hating Lyle....

You got 0 to back up any of this up.....

Floyd is an exceptional Feinter and bobs and weaves better than anyone since he has turned pro especially on the ropes... Get over it man ::**

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I have t9o disagree and say that James Toney is the best fighter in the last 20 years to fight off the ropes

James Toney is not even close to as good as Mayweather defensively off the ropes or anywhere... he got hit alot more.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

OVERRATTED??? Oh like your Boy Wlad Klit??? Yea thats him Mr China chin himself...Ruler of the paper division. 8) Man Lyle your hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes...

You rag on Floyds style but your so fast to point out Willie Pep being a G.O.A.T and PFP one of the best ever.... and he admited himself This coming out of Willie Peps Mouth and I Quote

" MY FIGHT STYLE.. HE WHO HITS AND RUNS AWAY LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY....SO THATS WHAT I DID FOR 29 YEARS, I TRIED TO HIT AND RUN....I GOT AWAY WITH IT"

So one fighter you like fights a certain way but another does a little of the same and you diss him..... ::**

To call Mayweather OVERATTED, is not just ridiculous but total insanity...I mean C'mon man

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I have not called Wladimir an all-time great...and the fact you always bring me being a fan of his up to debunk my point of view is sorry and just goes to show you have NO argument against me....."but but but you like Wladimir".....yeah and what does it have to do with FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR......at least Wlad stepped up to the plate and fought some challenges in his career!

Yes I think of Willie Pep as one of the P4P greatest of all time HOWEVER...he used his defense more than his legs.

Willie Pep was never lackluster, he was never boring, he didn't put fans to sleep....Floyd does that, Floyd doesn't feint and bob and weave too much....Floyd Mayweather Jr lays back in his little philly shell defense and waits.....or he runs around.

Willie Pep was active in the ring and when he outclassed someone he worked hard to do it, to do his best....if he could KO them, he did it. Floyd doesn't even TRY....why pay the guy any money if he's not even going to try.

Willie Pep also met challenges....Sandy Saddler anyone??? And that was AFTER a life threatening plane crash!!!!

Floyd has done F*** all with the talent he has!


AND TO COMPARE FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR TO WILLIE PEP IS OUTRIGHT BLASPHEMY!

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Floyd Mayweather would have destroyed WIllie Pep in the ring... He is faster, better defensive, and a way better fighter to say otherwise is Blasphemy. Floyd met Corrales who was his biggest challenge, then Castillo, and then Gatti, Judah, Baldomir(welterweight champ and hardest opposition after Judah at the weight). NOw he facing ODLH hows that for a challenge. If you can't see that Floyd doesn't need to faint because he is such a superior boxer... he is so fast and accurate he doesn't need to set anything up. Did Floyd sit around against Gatti? Ndou? Burton? Chavez? Hernandez?.

Oh yeah and not punching for a round is some of the greatest examples of an exciting slugfest I've ever witnessed.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

What did I say? Anyone worth a damn before the 14th. Let's not try to put Donnie and Ayub in the same category with Pretty Boy.

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I don't think he is putting LaLonde in the same catagory as Mayweather...But with you getting over your soap box preaching and dismissing everyone elses statements but yours why don't you read the point!!!!

He said good fighters...LaLonde was pretty good...and just in case you forgot...IT WAS AT LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT!!!!!!!!
Floyd lacks KO power at 147 let alone 4 divisions above....
and if you say Floyd can KO a top light heavy then you lose all credibility on any post from here on out.....even PBF most die hard fans would not make that statement

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Point out where I said Floyd had more power than Ray and then come talk to me. Until then, shut the f@#k up! Thank you and goodbye ;)

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I don't think I ever said you did say that did I? But no again ou do not read correctly and understand what people are saying. The power was just a point. A point that witout any real speed advantage and no power advantage Floyd is the underdog...CAN YOU UNDERSTAND NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN YOU READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I don't know who you are telling to shut the F%$# up you little piss ant....Maybe if you weren't so illiterate things would not have to be broken down to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I S*&% out more boxing knowledge in the morning than you do now or could ever hope to have so come back when you grow up and can act like a big boy. Till then head on to a pro wrestling site it doesn't matter what you say in those forums its all bullshit anyway

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Hmm... with less of a speed advantage over Zab, Mayweather was able to still not be an underdog, so what are you trying to say that? Speed is important, but hardly the be all and end all when to people are relatively close in speed.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Lyle its that simple cc

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Its not that simple.. Boxing isn't rudimentary mathematics. 1+1= don't necessarily equal 2.

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Originally Posted by right_cross

A comment by Scrap made me realize that alot of guys may havent seen much of Leonard. If they did, they probobly saw clips of his fights with Hearns and Hagler. Those fights dont give a true representation of Leonards style. Against Hearns, Ray had to go outside his fight plan to get to Hearns. Against Hagler, he fought in the only style that would give him a chance against Marvin.

Here is clip of Ray against a tough Brit named Davey "Boy" Green. Granted, I dont classify Green as a great welter, but dare I say I put him a notch above the Gatti and Baldomir that Floyd has faced recently.

Its a nice display of footwork, combos, speed and power. I think you'll dig it. :)


Nice footage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6__DmwNFTfU

If any of you guys could work the magic of bringing the youtube screen up, I'd appreciate it. Me not to smart. :-[

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Oh Damn! This is a heated thread! :o

Ray man!!!! EASY! Too easy to pick! haha
If you pick Floyd, you have some SERIOUS explaining to do.

To whom it may concern, "HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN LEONARD HEARNS I?!!!"

Ray was as fast, if not FASTER than Floyd.
Floyd's speed isn't that special, look at the Judah fight.
NOBODY did FLURRIES like Ray, ever in the sport. Sure Jones Jr. had combinations and Ali had great flurries for a heavyweight.... but we are talking FLURRIES!

The POWER goes to Ray, EASY! Stamina, RAY always had more in the tank.
While Floyd was desperately running in the closing rounds against Castillo.

Leonard had Power in Every round, including the 15th.

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

Oh Damn! This is a heated thread! :o

Ray man!!!! EASY! Too easy to pick! haha
If you pick Floyd, you have some SERIOUS explaining to do.

To whom it may concern, "HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN LEONARD HEARNS I?!!!"

Ray was as fast, if not FASTER than Floyd.
Floyd's speed isn't that special, look at the Judah fight.
NOBODY did FLURRIES like Ray, ever in the sport. Sure Jones Jr. had combinations and Ali had great flurries for a heavyweight.... but we are talking FLURRIES!

The POWER goes to Ray, EASY! Stamina, RAY always had more in the tank.
While Floyd was desperately running in the closing rounds against Castillo.

Leonard had Power in Every round, including the 15th.

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Leonard was naturally bigger then little Floyd also. The thing that needs to be remembered is that there is no way Floyd could run from Leonard he was far too quick on his feet to let anyone box rings around him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Floyd Mayweather would have destroyed WIllie Pep in the ring... He is faster, better defensive, and a way better fighter to say otherwise is Blasphemy. Floyd met Corrales who was his biggest challenge, then Castillo, and then Gatti, Judah, Baldomir(welterweight champ and hardest opposition after Judah at the weight). NOw he facing ODLH hows that for a challenge. If you can't see that Floyd doesn't need to faint because he is such a superior boxer... he is so fast and accurate he doesn't need to set anything up. Did Floyd sit around against Gatti? Ndou? Burton? Chavez? Hernandez?.

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At 126 Willie Pep beats damn near ANYONE, up to and including your beloved Floyd Mayweather JR.

Floyd didn't sit around vs Gatti, Ndou, Burton, Chavez, and Hernandez....but that's like saying "Well Ali didn't sit back vs George Logan, Don Warner and Sonny Banks"

if Floyd is GREAT then he's supposed to beat GOOD fighters with a little more ease than everyone else....the thing I have a problem with in regards to Floyd's career is that he never challeneged himself.

"I beat Gatti" well whoopty fuckin do you're supposed to Gatti was NEVER great and one could say he barely made it into the GOOD category.

Floyd fighting Oscar is AWESOME the fight should have been made a long time ago but to call it his last fight is BULLSHIT I will NEVER consider him great if he retires after winning or losing vs De la Hoya....yes he moved up and won titles. Did he unify? Did he fight and beat great fighters?

At 28 Floyd has done less than Mike Tyson did when he was 28....much less Willie Pep!

Diego Corrales although widley considered very good right now was very GREEN when Floyd fought him.....FIVE YEARS AGO.


Jose Luis Castillo is the only challenge Floyd has had to overcome and when he did that he got a gift decision and acted like a bitch "am I bleeding? Am I bleeding?".....in the rematch he improved that's what I expected from him and I was impressed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Floyd Mayweather would have destroyed WIllie Pep in the ring... He is faster, better defensive, and a way better fighter to say otherwise is Blasphemy. Floyd met Corrales who was his biggest challenge, then Castillo, and then Gatti, Judah, Baldomir(welterweight champ and hardest opposition after Judah at the weight). NOw he facing ODLH hows that for a challenge. If you can't see that Floyd doesn't need to faint because he is such a superior boxer... he is so fast and accurate he doesn't need to set anything up. Did Floyd sit around against Gatti? Ndou? Burton? Chavez? Hernandez?.

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At 126 Willie Pep beats damn near ANYONE, up to and including your beloved Floyd Mayweather JR.

Floyd didn't sit around vs Gatti, Ndou, Burton, Chavez, and Hernandez....but that's like saying "Well Ali didn't sit back vs George Logan, Don Warner and Sonny Banks"

if Floyd is GREAT then he's supposed to beat GOOD fighters with a little more ease than everyone else....the thing I have a problem with in regards to Floyd's career is that he never challeneged himself.

"I beat Gatti" well whoopty F****** do you're supposed to Gatti was NEVER great and one could say he barely made it into the GOOD category.

Floyd fighting Oscar is AWESOME the fight should have been made a long time ago but to call it his last fight is BULLSHIT I will NEVER consider him great if he retires after winning or losing vs De la Hoya....yes he moved up and won titles. Did he unify? Did he fight and beat great fighters?

At 28 Floyd has done less than Mike Tyson did when he was 28....much less Willie Pep!

Diego Corrales although widley considered very good right now was very GREEN when Floyd fought him.....FIVE YEARS AGO.


Jose Luis Castillo is the only challenge Floyd has had to overcome and when he did that he got a gift decision and acted like a bitch "am I bleeding? Am I bleeding?".....in the rematch he improved that's what I expected from him and I was impressed.

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Willie Pep beats Floyd Mayweather? cool click for making me laugh ;D

Floyd started at 130....if the hypothetical fight happened at 130 I'd side with Pep eventhough he fought his whole career at 126...you don't get 230 wins by being average.


Yes 230 wins...you could give Floyd 20 more years of his prime and he still couldn't get that many wins and we're talking pre and post life threatening PLANE CRASH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Floyd Mayweather would have destroyed WIllie Pep in the ring... He is faster, better defensive, and a way better fighter to say otherwise is Blasphemy. Floyd met Corrales who was his biggest challenge, then Castillo, and then Gatti, Judah, Baldomir(welterweight champ and hardest opposition after Judah at the weight). NOw he facing ODLH hows that for a challenge. If you can't see that Floyd doesn't need to faint because he is such a superior boxer... he is so fast and accurate he doesn't need to set anything up. Did Floyd sit around against Gatti? Ndou? Burton? Chavez? Hernandez?.

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At 126 Willie Pep beats damn near ANYONE, up to and including your beloved Floyd Mayweather JR.

Floyd didn't sit around vs Gatti, Ndou, Burton, Chavez, and Hernandez....but that's like saying "Well Ali didn't sit back vs George Logan, Don Warner and Sonny Banks"

if Floyd is GREAT then he's supposed to beat GOOD fighters with a little more ease than everyone else....the thing I have a problem with in regards to Floyd's career is that he never challeneged himself.

"I beat Gatti" well whoopty F****** do you're supposed to Gatti was NEVER great and one could say he barely made it into the GOOD category.

Floyd fighting Oscar is AWESOME the fight should have been made a long time ago but to call it his last fight is BULLSHIT I will NEVER consider him great if he retires after winning or losing vs De la Hoya....yes he moved up and won titles. Did he unify? Did he fight and beat great fighters?

At 28 Floyd has done less than Mike Tyson did when he was 28....much less Willie Pep!

Diego Corrales although widley considered very good right now was very GREEN when Floyd fought him.....FIVE YEARS AGO.


Jose Luis Castillo is the only challenge Floyd has had to overcome and when he did that he got a gift decision and acted like a bitch "am I bleeding? Am I bleeding?".....in the rematch he improved that's what I expected from him and I was impressed.

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Very well said. Cool click. It's is absurd to compare Floyd to some of the greats from the past. Floyd cannot be mentioned in the same breath as a Leonard or Pep...and he never will. Are you people insane?! Floyd's resume is a JOKE for someone who claims that they want to be considered an all time great. He has not fought ONE GREAT fighter...PERIOD. Gatti?! Chavez?! Corrales?! Baldomir?! Judah?! Good fighters at best. Castillo was the best fighter he faced...and i for one do not think he is a truly GREAT fighter. People remember fighters who had defining moments in their careers. Floyd for all of his skill has no defining moment. No moment where you can point to and say it will be remembered for years to come. Whether the lack of an impressive resume is his fault or not...BOTTOM LINE...he doesn't have an impressive resume. So you all can rant and rave about his great skill, defense, blah, blah...and how be demolished the likes of GATTI...but please don't disrespect LEGENDS of the past by comparing them to Floyd. He just doesn't measure up.

CC Zhubin. Castillo may not be great, but he is damn good. In one of the greatest fights of all time!