Get back to work!!!....slacker ;) heh I'm at work too :P
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Get back to work!!!....slacker ;) heh I'm at work too :P
As Smashup put it best get paid to talk about the sport I love, watch videos and have fun..... 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
On another note I'm pretty much done for the day and have everything under control.... But it never fails that something goes wrong at 5 o'clock when it's time to go home.... >:mad
My favourite part was when Barrera blatantly broke the rules by hitting Marquez full force whilst he was down . Then had the audacity to hold his arms up as if to say say " what did I do wrong "
You gotta love him for that . Plenty of times in the pasti've seen him getting told off like a naughty school boy .Most notably ramming Nas' head against the turnbuckle . He breaks the rules and then acts shocked as if he cant belive he is getting pulled up on it . Its class . Marco is legend !!!!! ;D
CC back Mick (#1239). It's refreshing to have someone conclude a debate that way rather than secretly sad click me. Respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
I just saw the knockdown in the 7th round via youtube, dang is Jay Nady blind? :o
Havent seen the whole fight yet but I'm pretty sure that fucked up round is crucial, Marquez is lucky. I feel bad for Barrera but I'm pretty impressed with his overall durability to survive that round and power dropping JMM with 1punch :)
I wanna see JMM PAC now :D
Yeah that and fridays, it always seems like every friday I'm swamped with crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Whats your input on MAB hitting JMM while JMM was down?Quote:
Originally Posted by GP100
Marco's my boy. I've followed him since his Great Western Forum days. But that was clearly a cheap shot. I'm disappointed in himQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
That was bad.Marco has shown his ugly face to the world and to his fans. I am disappointed with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
The way I see the hit when he was down is like this: The referee wasnt in there waiving him off sayin it was a slip, it happened to fast, the replay was slow motion so it looks like he was down for awhile. Barrera did what he is supposed to do, keep fighting until he is told to either reset or go to the neutral corner. The ref got in there after the late punch and then said it was a slip..then he deducted the point for the late hit. I put that one on the ref not doing his job, at least thats what I remember, I was a little buzzed.I could have swore he hit em then the ref seperated after.It was obviously not a slip, so I think Barrera got totally hosed. I can still see Marquez winning on the cards if that round was scored different, but a hell of a lot closer.Rematch ;D
You didnt see Ray Mercer stop using Tommy Morrisons head as a punching bag when he was being held up by the ropes until the ref jumped in...same thing, its a killer instinct to put em out.
deduct a point but score the knockdown :) at least it could have been a 10-9 round for MAB instead of the 10-8 for a knockdown. I'll give MAB the benefit of the doubt probably adrenalin rush, still foul, but MAB deserve the point for the knockdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
I think that would have made it a 9-8 round (10-8 minus a point), but I do agree with you. Nady also should have stepped in immediately, regardless of whether he had (correctly) called it a KD or (incorrectly) called it a slip. That probably would have prevented the foul.Quote:
Originally Posted by GP100
but JMM wasn't knocked down so he's fair game and right to look to finish himQuote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Both his knees and gloves were touching the canvas. Whether Nady ruled it a knockdown or not is completely irrelevant. It's one of the most basic rules in boxing, you can't swing at a fighter who is down on the canvas. Marquez was down on the canvas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Barrera has been a professional boxer for 18 years. He knows the rules of the sport. He chose not to follow them.
;D then (as we know) Nady is incompetent & should have called break started a count stepped between them any of the above instead of napping. Protect yourself at all times
Maybe Nady didn't think he needed to jump in between them right away. Maybe he expected an old pro like Barrera to be classy enough to not throw a dirty, gutless punch at a fighter who was down on the canvas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
It's OK for people to criticize Nady for not ruling it a knockdown, because it was a knockdown.
But when it comes to the punch that Barrera threw while Marquez was on the canvas, there is absolutely no one at fault other than Barrera. He deserves 100% of the blame and deserved to have a point deducted.
rubbish. Gay Nady is there precisely for moments like that. If JMM is NOT down and under the protection of the ref then he's UP and a target. Why not issue a warning?
amat wrote:
Now here's where a lot of people are going to disagree with me but I think that Nady dropped the ball on this one. Awesome ref but how long was Marquez in that awkward position without Nady stepping in? It was five seconds at least and Marquez was close to getting up. Barrera motioned to hit Marquez, he hesitated seemingly waiting for Nady to step in, he feinted pulled back again and still nothing from Nady until Barrera was moving forward already. Protect yourself at all times and Nady wasn't calling a knockdown. I didn't have that much of a problem with what Barrera did because of how awkward of a position Marquez was in and how Nady waited forever to step in. I thought he deserved a warning and obviously should have been credited with the knockdown.
---
SPea. I'm not the only one thinking this way.
Then that makes two of you who are wrong ;D
I think your clinging on to the vaguest of technicalities here. Had it been against the ropes then it is possibly understandable as that is where these kinds of incidents take place, is he down or is he against the ropes? They were practically center rind and Barrera took a swipe at a man who was doubled over with his hands on the deck. Totally undefendable.
I think amat should take another look at the fight with a stop watch. If more than a second passed before Nady was grabbing Barrera then Im a Chinaman.
Memphis makes an important point about the timing. It's not like this all happened in a split second. If Marquez had gone down, and Barrera had swung at him a second later, you could understand it. You could say that it happened really fast and Barrera didn't have time to realize that Marquez was on the canvas.
But that's not how it happened. Marquez went down from a punch (and Barrera obviously knew he went down from a punch, because he's the one who threw the punch that knocked him down) and then Barrera stood over him for several seconds. That's more than enough time for Barrera to realize that Marquez was on the canvas.
As I said before, there is only one person to blame for the illegal punch, and that's Barrera. He's a smart fighter and he has been fighting for a looooooong time. He knows the rules, he knows when a guy is on the canvas or not. He CHOSE not to follow a rule. Just like he chose to grab Hamed by the neck and ram him headfirst into the turnbuckle.
See, neither of you agree, was it a second or several seconds? Either way it's the same, bad ref'ing and the boxer doing what they should, less than a second it's reflexive more than that yes they choose BECAUSE the ref hasn't called it as a down or called break. If it's neither of those then it's legit.
If he's touching down then the ref steps in calls it a count or dusts down the guys gloves but he did nothing. So why not follow up?
It wasn't a knock down as the ref did not call it as such. Barrera waited for the ref to call it, he didn't call it, JMM is now bent over and still the ref didn't step in so Barrera hit him. Why not?
You're saying boxers should self regulate? then why bother with refs?
Not self regulate, just stick to the rules, he should know them by now. It is illegal to hit a fighter who is down or in the process of getting up, thats the bottom line here.
The only instruction he has to give is to send Barrera to a neutral corner, which he did.
if he had fallen down, then I agree, if he had been knocked down (and it was called) and was getting up I would agree but it was neither of those cases. Who checks to see if their gloves are on the floor when they're bent over at the waist and in the process of rising? Target, hit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
He did go down!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
He went down from a punch, his knees (and gloves) clearly hit the canvas. He was getting up, and got clocked by a dirty punch.
When an opponent hits the canvas, whether it's because of a knockdown, a slip, a push, or whatever.... you wait for him to stand up and get back on his feet. You don't hover over him with your right hand cocked back, ready to sucker punch him.
The people who are defending Barrera in this instance either:
a. haven't seen the tape of what happened
or
b. are even more in love with Barrera than Jim Lampley
yeah i wasn't to happy about the decision either. no disrespect to marquez as he is a great fighter and proved it was pretty damn good but i'm sure most people had barrera ahead and i was really impressed with the fight unfortnately it was ruined by shitty scoring
It has to be one of them though doesnt it? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Missy
I'm discussing the nature of the touchdown. If it was a slip, where was nady to step in? Nowhere. Was it a knockdown? No, Nady didn't call it as that either. If it was a slip why wasn't nady between them? To call a halt to the action and then wave them on?Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
so you're now saying he was up? Therefore it's ok to hit him.
What your saying is if the ref is a little slow out of the blocks the rules dont count?
Did Barrera consider it a knockdown? you bet he did. Did he recognise that Marquez was down and therefore shouldnt hit him? The slight pause and then 'Im going to do it anyway' would suggest that he did.
The "nature" of the touchdown is absolutely pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Are we in agreement that Marquez went down to the canvas with his knees and gloves?? If the answer is "yes," then I don't see what else there is to argue.
If he went to the canvas, then any boxer with a functioning brain (and Barrera is a smart guy) knows that it is illegal to hit an opponent either while he is down on the canvas, or while he is in the process of pulling himself up.
It doesn't matter if Barrera thought it was a knockdown.
It doesn't matter if Barrera thought Marquez slipped.
It doesn't matter if Nady was late in getting between them.
It doesn't matter if Barrera was unsure whether Nady was going to rule it a knockdown or a slip.
All that matters is that Marquez went down right in front of Barrera's eyes. Therefore, if Barrera didn't know that he was doing something wrong by throwing another punch several seconds after Marquez went down, then Barrera is either blind or mentally incompentent.
Or it could be another answer.... that he's a dirty fighter at times and decided to break a rule.
damn 'puter ate my reply.
Of course it matters. Is he down is he up? He's getting up the ref doesn't call a break so he hits him.
Refs call "break" when two fighters who are standing on their feet are in a clinch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
He doesn't call break when one guy is on the canvas, and trying to begin the act of standing back up.
I will ask again... are we in agreement that Marquez's knees and gloves hit the canvas after the initial legal punch that Barrera landed?
I can't understand why you're laying all this blame at MAB's door when it's clear that Nady fucked up big time. If it was a slip then you get between the two fighters dust the guy who slipped down and resume the fight. If it's a knock down then score it. He did neither.
I've seen it happen loads of times just as I've seen loads of fighters touch down, pop back up and get tagged again for their trouble, it happens.
Thats what he tried to do though didnt he? He clearly saw it as a slip. He is guilty of taking up a bad position but nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
well he's the only one who didn't see it.
MAB stood waiting for the call that didn't come.
The more ive been thinking about this the more I am inclined this way. Nady was nowhere to be seen for an absolute age. He was completely incompetent in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
A great fight but somewhat marred for me by what happened in that round. For me if that round went as it should there could be no question of doubt at all in my mind about Barrera winning it and convincingly so...
DAMN! IT >:mad I MISSED THIS DEBATE..... >:mad
OK for those who said MAB is a fighter and hes just doing his job to keep punching untill hes told to stop.....
Well then lets just throw the rules out the window and turn boxing to UFC....
I mean haven't you guys heard the refs. pre-fight instructions in the dressing rooms?
He clearly states IF there is a knockdown you must immidiately go to a nuetral corner and stay there......
I mean how many times have we not seen once a fighter knocksdown an opponent he knocks him down and steps back and goes to his corner even before the ref. starts counting?
Fact of the matter is MAB punched JMM while he was down and MAB knew he was down regardless if Nady ruled it a knockdown or not.
I mean I'm sure you read the post-fight quote I put on here about what MAB said it's there what's the issue here hes even saying what he did.....
Also look at the picture Saddo posted you can clearly see Nady trying to stop MABs hand but MAB countinues with the punch.....
I'll say it again he was very lucky that he didn't get DQ'd for what he did, I'm sure the DQ crossed Nadys mind but I'm willing to bet in those split seconds he thought about it and prefered to just deduct a point.....
He clearly states IF there is a knockdown you must immidiately go to a nuetral corner and stay there......
Nady didn't call a knock down or slip, he did bugger all, Barrera paused, Nady paused Barrera went to clip JMM and Nady then pulled him away.
i saw nothing but neglegence on nady's behalf. barrera was almost out on his feet before the knockdown and nady should have been about ready to dive in if a stoppage was neccesary. but then "whack" and JMM goes down (in what was clearly a legit knockdown) and nady wasnt on the cse and quick to do his job like he should have been and instead was way too slow to react. it is not a tickeling competition in the ring and no one is trying to win the best behaved boy scout badge either. if i was fighting JMM and he was knocked down and getting up again and the ref had done fuck all i would have hit him again aswell. nady should have been a lot quicker to react in a fight as action packed as this one and he should have pounced on the knockdown the second it happened. he should have got between the fighters, sent barrera to a nuteral corner and given JMM a count.
So you're saying that after 18 years of professional boxing, Barrera still doesn't know the rules, and needs to rely on the ref to tell him everything? Come on. The man went down to the canvas right in front of Barrera's eyes! As soon as that happens, it should register in Barrera's brain that there is going to be a break in the action (because it's either a knockdown or a slip) and that he needs to back up and wait for action to be restored. Instead, as soon as Marquez went to the ground, Barrera decided to stand over him with his right hand cocked and ready to throw a punch. He tried to throw an illegal punch, got his arm grabbed by Nady, then still tried again and on the second attempt landed the illegal shot!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Could you please name some of the fights where you've seen this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy