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the government can NEVER decide we cannot have guns, it would be the only way to put them in line if the got totalitarian and shit, also i would imagine alot more people would commit crimes with guns if they knew it was illegal for someone to defend themselves with 1Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
thats a thing that a lot of people don't understand. This country was founded with the ability to revolt against a government if the one they set in place should some how be corrupted.
You're absolutely spot on, mate. They are a total nightmare. This guy obtained guns via the internet over here. Laws vary from state to state, but I could go to WalMart right now and by a shotgun and walk out of the store within five minutes with a powerful firearm. My best friend did the same and went home with it and blew his head off. ::** :'( Absolute disgrace. But you are never going to see that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
With the severe polarization of the current Supreme Court, and the historical commitment to Stari decisis, there is no way they would alter the 2nd Amendment. I"m moving back to Europe in a few years anyway. But the fact of the matter remains that many of these laws should be reexamined by an independent panel made up of a variety of pundits from different political persuasions.
The U.S. is a great country, but all forms of government and lawmaking are inherently flawed everywhere around the globe. :(
I understand a few people kill themselves with guns but people also try to kill themselves in cars by driving the wrong way on the highway......should we ban cars too???
What about knives?
Also the 2nd Amendment is a valid reference point because as you well know it was put in effect to keep the government from being tyrannical....and if you think that threat has gone by the wayside then you are sorely mistaken!
Guns are fine in the hands of responsible, mentally healthy people.....can we agree on that? I mean I know accidents happen but shit accidents happen with ANYTHING....give me an object and I can tell you an accident that has occured with it!
Also you must ask yourself, if a person wants to kill themselves then not having a gun won't stop them....I mean there are MANY MANY MANY other ways
Yeah, but my best friend Rob was hospitalized 6 times for suicide attempts. He was clearly mentally unstable and was able to go out and purchase a gun. These current gun laws are a complete joke, and believe me, I'm no Michael Moore fan. Actually, I despise the man for what he did to an infirmed Charlton Heston. But don't get me started on commie bastards like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The question that I have for you, Lyle:
How and who determines who is responsible to own a gun? Apparently no system has been put into place to investigate any potential FIREARM owner. Yes, people get killed in cars; killed in the ring; killed by a knife attack, etc. That still doesn't justify the ease of obtaining a firearm, don't you think?
Further, when this country formalized the amendments, the inhabitants were living in a completely different world. The threat of Euro-Tyranny was still fresh in the minds of the founders. Things are much different now, though.
The N.R.A. has also used the 10th Amendment to oppose the Brady Bill. A full battery of psychological tests should be put into place and mandated for persons wishing to own a firearm. This is one of the most inane laws in this great country. ::**
But the majority of people who jump through all the hoops to get their guns aren't going to shoot people.
For every Cho Seung-Hui there are a million law abiding gun owners!!!
The majority rules in the US and therefore guns are still legal because the majority of voters want to keep them legal.
Your friend Rob shouldn't have been able to buy a gun, I whole heartedly agree...but that shows me a problem with the mental health system in the US as well as the gun laws....don't place 100% of the blame on one area.
The "tyranny" was not just from Europe, it was homegrown as well....if our government ever took steps out of bounds the US citizen was able to GATHER LEGALLY and have firearms and take down the government.....of course you'd get charged with treason but treason is difficult to be convicted for.
So you would agree that a full battery of psychological and background checks should be implemented? The current system of background checks is a joke. Fact of the matter is a firearm is far more dangerous than most other conventional weapons. You think that screwball nut in Virginia would have been able to kill over 30 people with a knife, ax, machete, etc.? No way. It would have never went down that way. An IMMEDIATE moratorium should be put on any type of firearm purchases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The majority really doesn't rule here, Lyle. It's not a direct democracy like the ancient Greeks had. It's a representative democracy where politicians get elected to office by the people and then open their bank accounts to the plethora of lobbyists in Washington. They count on the people having short-term memories during their stays in office and don't want touch such issues with a ten foot pole.
If guns is all you have you wouldn't stand a chance against a corrupt wealthy government today.
Think about all the advanced weapons and trained soldiers they have.
I did my honours degree on a protein that can kill you if as little as one molecule enters your system. It can enter the bloodstream with a tiny pin prick and is completely untraceable.
I was looking at it's expression and role in the developing grain so I didn't have to play with the actual protein itself (luckily otherwise I'd have probably accidentally killed myself) but it can be extracted and used by people wealthy enough to do it.
Do you really think the government doesn't have extremely advanced technology that could wipe you out in the blink of an eye?!?!
Of course this is a bit dark and i do not really sit at home fearing government conspiracies but I'd just like to point out that if guns are owned as a right to overthrow your government then that is outdated.
Excellent points. :coolclick: Any graduate student with access to a University lab can make an abundance of varied lethal pathogens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharla
??? ::** :P I can see the E.C.U. education is really making an impact on your thinking, Lyle. Public executions? What the hell are you thinking? I'm convinced that this was just a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm for a moratorium on the Death Penalty. Over recent years, with the advent of PCR testing and other forensic technologies, several death row inmates have been exculpated for crimes they didn't commit. I wonder what the total tally is for inmates wrongly convicted that were executed? ::**
There is no punishment greater than a dangerous inmate who killed someone to have to spend the rest of his days in prison, and be locked down in a cell for over 20 hours a day.
Taking away the freedom to simple things like no interaction and isolation is a far harsher punishment than getting a needle stuck in your arm and going to sleep.
What they really need to do is put such offenders, under supervision, in a brick-yard and have them work like slaves from morning to dusk.
You can't and shouldn't lower yourself to an animals level.
C'mon, Lyle. I thought that you were more reasonable that this.
If, in fact, it was a joke, disregard my comments.
I like the fact that the gun stores questionnaire had a question along the lines of 'are you a nutter? yes/no'
tick no here's your gun!
anyone think for a second someone may, I dunno, lie?
It's a bit like those green forms you fill in when going to the states? Are you a terrorist? ;D Wonder if anyone ticks yes 8)
Our "government" consists of 600 old people who are mostly overweight and greedy bastards. Its the companies that pay off our government that would be the problem. they're the last one who would want a new government to be implemented. Yeah the government has soldiers that have to follow orders but if the whole freaking country revolted you think the soldiers (who are mostly noble people) are gonna side with the people that sign their paycheck or the movement their friends and family are a part off. Besides if we had soldiers killing citizens left and right, we'd be justified in saying the government is tyranical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharla
Sure, there are countless historical examples of soldiers who were loyal to tyrannical leaders even in spite of the people's will: Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot,Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Kim Jong Ill, Mao Zedung, ad infinitum. Just some food for thought.
Yes but they didn't have clauses set up by men much smarter and honest than themselves stating that the government should be overthrown in a time of tyranny and no bad judgement will be placed upon you*Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
*as long as you're successful
The tyranny is already present. It's just financial. See the ruling elite within the government need people to work and pay lots of taxes so they can live off of us living lavish life styles and doing nothing but passing laws and rules that make them more money.
The guns are necessary for when the ruling elite feel that all of us slaves are messing up their planet and now they need to exterminate a couple billion so that we stop messing up the environment.
And yes those plans already exist, just haven't been carried out. Don't believe it check out the link here.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
Not a cheap project.
on top of that, if our government goes completely tyranical who's gonna bail us out? Yeah they are worried about the government when they have all made money off of fossil fuels to begin with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge
....I'm never going to say guns are bad but then again I'm not going to go ape shit and shoot up anywhere......(but if I change my mind I'll let you guys know first)