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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I got Pavlik coming in at number 15 with Taylor dropping out of the top 15.
If Pavlik knocks out the guy in 6.75 rounds of boxing and that guy beat Hopkins twice,then why dose Hopkins get in the top five and Pavlik is in you 15th ranking? Please embellish on this because I'm confused.
P4P ranking isn't based on a single fight alone though buddy. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ of all time. Prior to his razor thin decision losses to Taylor he was p4p number 1 in the sport and had reeled off 20 odd straight defenses.
He also held all the belts and was the unified middleweight champ.
Since his losses to Taylor he has rebounded beating THE man at 175 lb jumping two divisions in the process and has beaten the best other middleweight Winky Wright.
Hopkins is top 5 p4p NO QUESTION!
Pavlik did great last weekend and the whole boxing world just stood up and took notice. But he doesn't jump up as high as Hopkins on the back of one win.
The p4p rankings arn't (or shouldn't) be at the mercy of every single fight result. To be a top 10 p4p you need to have proven yourself, defended your title a few times, unified some belts, maybe moved up and won belts in two or more divisions.
When you consider Pavliks acomplishments in the light of other fighters he's not yet done a whole lot. Sure, he might go on to be great, but you don't become great on the back of a single win. If he defends his belt a few times, unifies the titles or makes a sucessful move up to 168 lb then he becomes one of the elite.
For now he's just made the first (huge) step. :)
So Auburn is better than Ohio State because Florida lost to Auburn and Ohio State got throttled. How is it not different.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyway my take on it is this. The p4p rankings are based on a fighters overall record and performances over a period of time not just one fight result.
Just like in a soccer or American Football league during the groups stages if you beat the top team it doesn't automatically put you above them, it depends how many points you both had before.
In soccer Man Utd might lose to Fulham but it doesn't mean Fulham will replace Man Utd's position in the league it depnds how many points they had both scored in the season so far.
Likewise in boxing, Pavlik scored a huge win over Jermain Taylor but he doesn't on the back of that win, his first title fight, jump into the top 10 p4p imo. Likewise Taylor doesn't plummet down too far, it doesn't work like that.
Violent D said Pavlik is about 15 and I broadly agree. He beat the man in the middleweight division, BUT at least half of all ref's would have stopped the fight in the second round in favour of Taylor, in which we case we would all be talking about how Taylor blew Pavlik away. He was also trailing on all scorecards as well so talk about a Pavlik domination of Taylor is overblown.
It was a terrific fight reminiscent of Vazquez Marquez and like those fights the rematch could just as easily swing the other way.
Meanwhile Pavlik has only had 1 world title fight. That doesn't catapualt you to top 10 p4p imo. I'd still have guys like Mosely, Calderon, Kessler etc above him just outside the top 10 as they have all won belts in multiple divisions or else won multiple belts in the same division.
If you are going to just raise someone 20 or 30 places on the p4p list on the back of one result then your p4p list is going to change more often than Michael Jacksons face.
hear ye, hear ye.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by southakron314
1. Mayweather
2. Hatton
3.Ponce De Leon
4.Vasquez
5.Manny Pac
6.Pavlik
7.Mosley
8.Hopkins
9.Berra
10.Marquez
Stick to being a Pavlik fan (by the way, I'm one too)... and leave the p4p lists for people who know a bit more about boxing, ok?
;)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
He has two belts when i last checked the WBO and WBC i mean those are two belts and i think he has the ring belt which almost matters as much
The Ring belt means more than those alphabet trinkets!!! Pavlik will more than like be stripped of one or the other sooner or later... he should just throw them away now. Atleast he can only lose his Ring belt in the Ring!
As for P4P Pavlik doesn't make the top 10 yet for me.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Think i put just at 10 and i would not have a problem putting him as high as five if he beats Abraham and Stern and unifies all the belts what a great thing that would be a person with all the 4 major belts we could have one champ again can you imagine that i sure can and hope it happens hell i put him higher but now for me he is ten but i just want to see him unify the middle weight division and i be waiting
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Think i put just at 10 and i would not have a problem putting him as high as five if he beats Abraham and Stern and unifies all the belts what a great thing that would be a person with all the 4 major belts we could have one champ again can you imagine that i sure can and hope it happens hell i put him higher
Bro no offense but forget all that alphabet crap! Hopkins had all 4 belts, so in theory Pavlik already would if it wasn't for all the stripping. The Ring belt is the only one that matters. It's been their since Hopkins defeated Trinidad to win the vacant belt. Taylor won it by beating Hopkins & now Pavlik is the middleweight champion by dethroning Taylor.
So you can stop imagining now bro as we already do have one champ.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Yea i guess your right but if Pavlik did beat Abrham and Stern i put him up there for clearing his division completely more what i meant
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Yea i guess your right but if Pavlik did beat Abrham and Stern i put him up there for clearing his division completely more what i meant
Yeah I agree about cleaning out the division, Abraham 1st, then maybe a Taylor rematch or a fight with Wright. I think Sturm gets beat by Griffin so Sturms out for me!
cc bro
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Yea cc back my friend i think Abraham would be a good win because he is the other guy that beat Miranda but is was close but Kelly beating him i think would be great maybe they should have that before the rematch and give that time to build up a bit more
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Pavlik is not top ten buti if he keeps doing this hes on his way
and im a big ponce de leon fan but hes not even top twennay O0
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
bilbo Scores big. cc man.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
Barrera is hard to rate, could be much higher, could be lower we will see after Saturday. Taylor doesn't slip far, he's still a stellar fighter and the fight with Pavlik could really have gone either way.
Cory Spinks deserves a mention, Tarver is still a threat, Jones still has tremendous talent and then there are dangerous guys like Guzman, Soto, Williams, Cintron, Margarito, Mormeck, Bell etc.
Some great fighters out there and you can see that the top 10 p4p really is an elite level, Pavlik ain't there yet.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Thats totally different because Douglas was not even known name and had one great peformance Pavlik has beaten the two best Middleweights in the world and KO both of them he deserves to be in top 10 somewhere.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright but Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Thats totally different because Douglas was not even known name and had one great peformance Pavlik has beaten the two best Middleweights in the world and KO both of them he deserves to be in top 10 somewhere.
See my above list Ice, you can't make a case for him replacing any of those guys in the top 10 in my view. All of them multiple world champs, THE men in their respective divisions and some all time greats.
One world title fight doesn't make you top 10 p4p.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright and Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
Yes because the p4p rankings arn't based off a single result Ice. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ ever, lost two controversial losses to Taylor, then moved up 2 divisions to beat the MAN at 175 and has also beaten the other great middleweight fighter in Winky Wright.
Wright was THE man in the 154 lb division, almost beat Taylor, many felt he did and was fighting well above his natural weight in his last fight.
Taylor beat a legend in Hopkins TWICE, drew with another top 3 p4p guy in Wright and defended his title 4 times.
Pavlik needs to do more than just win a single fight to enter the top 10 p4p rankings.
If not what happens if they rematch in 6 months and Taylor wins? Do you put Taylor back up 20 places to Top 5 or 6 and demote Pavlik 10 places?
That's just schizophrenic rankings.
A place in the top 10 p4p is earned through consistently proving yourself the best. Pavlik needs to defend his belt before he can say that.
If he beats Taylor again he'll make my top 10 ;)
And Miranda isn't one of the best two middleweights in the world Ice. If my memory serves me correctly he lost a UD to Arthur Abraham last year, making HIM above him. Add Taylor and Winky and Miranda wasn't top 3 although still a legitimate challenge.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright and Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
Yes because the p4p rankings arn't based off a single result Ice. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ ever, lost two controversial losses to Taylor, then moved up 2 divisions to beat the MAN at 175 and has also beaten the other great middleweight fighter in Winky Wright.
Wright was THE man in the 154 lb division, almost beat Taylor, many felt he did and was fighting well above his natural weight in his last fight.
Taylor beat a legend in Hopkins TWICE, drew with another top 3 p4p guy in Wright and defended his title 4 times.
Pavlik needs to do more than just win a single fight to enter the top 10 p4p rankings.
If not what happens if they rematch in 6 months and Taylor wins? Do you put Taylor back up 20 places to Top 5 or 6 and demote Pavlik 10 places?
That's just schizophrenic rankings.
A place in the top 10 p4p is earned through consistently proving yourself the best. Pavlik needs to defend his belt before he can say that.
If he beats Taylor again he'll make my top 10 ;)
I can see where your coming from and i understand your point i think Pavlik will clean out Middleweight division i wouldn't mind him beating Taylor again then beating Abraham and then maybe move up and get a crack at whoever wins between Calzaghe vs Kessler.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
And if he does all that he'll be in my top 3 no question! :coolclick:
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
And if he does all that he'll be in my top 3 no question! :coolclick:
:coolclick: back mate you bring up some good points and you are right i think i am getting bit carried away because im Pavlik fan and the way he KO Taylor was damn impressive but beating Taylor again and beating Abraham is a must imo before he moves up to Supermiddleweight and takes on either Calzaghe or Kessler i wonder if Hopkins or Wright will want to take on Pavlik.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I think Pavlik could surpass Cotto and make it to top ten look at their compatetion i mean Cotto best win is Zab Judah, Oktay Urkal, Carlos Quintana, Paul Malignaggi and those to me are not better wins then Pavlik's Jermain Taylor, Bronco McKart, Jose Luis Zertuche, and Edison Miranda that to me would put him in the 10 spot not just holding abc titles it is who beats better people i think Pavlik has better wins so to me he makes it to the ten spot
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
But cc for your list Bilbo i could be wrong the way i see it who knows i hate pound for pound hard for me to judge
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I think Pavlik could surpass Cotto and make it to top ten look at their compatetion i mean Cotto best win is Zab Judah, Oktay Urkal, Carlos Quintana, Paul Malignaggi and those to me are not better wins then Pavlik's Jermain Taylor, Bronco McKart, Jose Luis Zertuche, and Edison Miranda that to me would put him in the 10 spot not just holding abc titles it is who beats better people i think Pavlik has better wins so to me he makes it to the ten spot
But Cotto has won titles in two different weights. He's fought and won 10 straight world title fights. He's beaten former undisputed welterweight champ Zab Judah by KO, Mallignaggi is now a legit world champ in his own right as is Ricardo Torres.
Urkal has fought for 3 world titles I believe, not sure if he's won one. Maussa and N'Dou are both former world champs as was Corely.
How many former world champs has Pavlik beat?
Don't misunderstand me Pavlik is a great fighter and he's got a ton of potential but p4p rankings are based on what a fighter has done so far and Pavlik so far has only had one world title fight.
Yes he knocked Taylor out but he was almost Ko'd himself, was behind in the fight and is a knockout artist all the same. A guy like Ivan Calderon actually is a far better techinical boxer than Pavlik and has acomplished more being THE man at minimum weight and beating THE man at junior flyweight in Cazares but he's not a puncher hence to some it looks less impressive.
Oh and cc returned :)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easliy be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easliy be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I have to agree with you their fire i still think he is 10 but p4p is a hard thing to judge
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
but cotto has never beaten a p4per,and he has never beaten the best and his division, he hasnt won when he was the underdog and has had sub-par performances..... pavlik has been the most dominate fighter this year against the #1 contender and the #1 in his division...
my point is he is at the top 10 P4P level... again what is yours, where would you rate pavlik??
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
man you got me there, I havent seen very many fights, and that is why I think refs dont stop fights after a guy gets knocked down the first time and then gets up half way threw the count...
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
but cotto has never beaten a p4per,and he has never beaten the best and his division, he hasnt won when he was the underdog and has had sub-par performances..... pavlik has been the most dominate fighter this year against the #1 contender and the #1 in his division...
my point is he is at the top 10 P4P level... again what is yours, where would you rate pavlik??
As I said above he's around 14 or 15. Cotto may not have had the chance to face a steller opponent yet but his chance will come next month. Whomever wins between Mosely and Cotto is p4p no question, one will probably replace the other.
It's all well and good saying someone should be top 10 p4p but it comes at the expense of another fighter and right now there are at least 10 fighters in the world across all weight divisions who have achieved more in their careers than Pavlik.
Taylor was a good champion, the man at 160 lbs but it was only one fight.
Before that Pavlik wasn't even in probably the top 30 or so p4p so he's jumped around 20 places!
He can higher again if he wins next time out.
-
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
man you got me there, I havent seen very many fights, and that is why I think refs dont stop fights after a guy gets knocked down the first time and then gets up half way threw the count...
It wasn't when he went down that they would have stopped it but when he was all over the place for the 30 seconds or afterwards. He got heeled and staggered across the whole ring. Trust me on this there are a lot of refs who would have waved it off right there.
Remember this fight?
[youtube=425,350]Kv1Et0W3xeI[/youtube]
:)
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Ok well i tell you this much if he beats Abrham or Taylor again he has to be top 10
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Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Ok well i tell you this much if he beats Abrham or Taylor again he has to be top 10
Absolutely agree 100% :coolclick:
