Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
But i still not sure when Lewis prime was i get lost trying to find when his prime really was i think it was in mid to early 30's could be wrong though
Basically when he join Emmanuel Steward.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
good point there cc ice i forgot about how much that changed him in his career it was a huge success and it is helping Wald to
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Hope he can get unification match or beat peter again or something the hw need some one to jump start them again
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
He wants to make Kelly Pavlik hungry to go up and fight him. Then, if Pavlik did which he shouldn't, Joe would back out like a little wimpy ladyboy.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helminth
He wants to make Kelly Pavlik hungry to go up and fight him. Then, if Pavlik did which he shouldn't, Joe would back out like a little wimpy ladyboy.
Ur Knoledge and insight is so graet that my brain could not comprehend it's logic.
In fact it was so far beyond the reaches of my mind it apopears in my eyes to be total b******t.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I'm just giving you the facts, ICB.
Johnson was basically nothing but a S*** journeyman with lots of losses - Hopkins, Sosa, Kiwanuka, Ottke, Vanderpool, Branco, Sheika, Harmon, Gonzalez...all these guys found a way to beat him but Roy couldn't.
And to make matters 1000 times worse Roy got beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
If Roy was so good he would of never lost to a guy like that. Let alone get beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
So i suppose Tyson losing to journeyman Douglas or Tyson losing to Williams makes him bad and wasn't great in his prime ??
Jones had lost his reflexes speed and confidence thats pretty obvisious how many greats have lost to fighters when there past there prime ?? Robinson even lost Terry Downes so does that make him not good or not great in his prime ??
Jones just like many greats have lost to fighters they wouldn't of in there prime that still doesn't take away how amazing Jones was.
OK, so going by your reckoning.. Sheikas win over Johnson doesn't mean shit - cos there's excuses, Johnsons win over Roy doesn't mean shit - cos there's excuses...That can go on forever.
You can make excuses for anyones wins or losses.
Jones win over Toney doesn't mean shit.. Toney was weight funked. Jones win over Hopkins doesn't mean shit.. Hopkins was green. Excuses, excuses, excuses....
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I'm just giving you the facts, ICB.
Johnson was basically nothing but a S*** journeyman with lots of losses - Hopkins, Sosa, Kiwanuka, Ottke, Vanderpool, Branco, Sheika, Harmon, Gonzalez...all these guys found a way to beat him but Roy couldn't.
And to make matters 1000 times worse Roy got beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
If Roy was so good he would of never lost to a guy like that. Let alone get beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
So i suppose Tyson losing to journeyman Douglas or Tyson losing to Williams makes him bad and wasn't great in his prime ??
Jones had lost his reflexes speed and confidence thats pretty obvisious how many greats have lost to fighters when there past there prime ?? Robinson even lost Terry Downes so does that make him not good or not great in his prime ??
Jones just like many greats have lost to fighters they wouldn't of in there prime that still doesn't take away how amazing Jones was.
OK, so going by your reckoning.. Sheikas win over Johnson doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses, Johnsons win over Roy doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses...That can go on forever.
You can make excuses for anyones wins or losses.
Jones win over Toney doesn't mean S***.. Toney was weight funked. Jones win over Hopkins doesn't mean S***.. Hopkins was green. Excuses, excuses, excuses....
Your just talking nonsense now i was giving you examples of great fighters losing to fighters while being past there prime that they wouldn't have in there prime its obvisious Jones was past his prime its not an excuse all you have to do is watch a prime Jones then go watch that version of Jones who fought Johnson and see the difference and Toney was p4p top 5 and was 44-0 yes your right Fenster Jones victory over him means nothing ::**
You do know Toney always has trouble with weight right ??
So Robinson losing to Downes while past his prime is an excuse ?? Tyson losing to Williams while past his prime is an excuse ?? so by logic every great fighter who is past there prime and loses is an excuse so i suppose saying Ali was past his prime vs Berbick is an excuse aswell ??
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I'm just giving you the facts, ICB.
Johnson was basically nothing but a S*** journeyman with lots of losses - Hopkins, Sosa, Kiwanuka, Ottke, Vanderpool, Branco, Sheika, Harmon, Gonzalez...all these guys found a way to beat him but Roy couldn't.
And to make matters 1000 times worse Roy got beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
If Roy was so good he would of never lost to a guy like that. Let alone get beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
So i suppose Tyson losing to journeyman Douglas or Tyson losing to Williams makes him bad and wasn't great in his prime ??
Jones had lost his reflexes speed and confidence thats pretty obvisious how many greats have lost to fighters when there past there prime ?? Robinson even lost Terry Downes so does that make him not good or not great in his prime ??
Jones just like many greats have lost to fighters they wouldn't of in there prime that still doesn't take away how amazing Jones was.
OK, so going by your reckoning.. Sheikas win over Johnson doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses, Johnsons win over Roy doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses...That can go on forever.
You can make excuses for anyones wins or losses.
Jones win over Toney doesn't mean S***.. Toney was weight funked. Jones win over Hopkins doesn't mean S***.. Hopkins was green. Excuses, excuses, excuses....
Your just talking nonsense now i was giving you examples of great fighters losing to fighters while being past there prime that they wouldn't have in there prime its obvisious Jones was past his prime its not an excuse all you have to do is watch a prime Jones then go watch that version of Jones who fought Johnson and see the difference and Toney was p4p top 5 and was 44-0 yes your right Fenster Jones victory over him means nothing ::**
You do know Toney always has trouble with weight right ??
Yep.
I'm just showing you excuses can be made for anyone.
Why do you rate Clinton Woods as one of Jones better wins?
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I'm just giving you the facts, ICB.
Johnson was basically nothing but a S*** journeyman with lots of losses - Hopkins, Sosa, Kiwanuka, Ottke, Vanderpool, Branco, Sheika, Harmon, Gonzalez...all these guys found a way to beat him but Roy couldn't.
And to make matters 1000 times worse Roy got beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
If Roy was so good he would of never lost to a guy like that. Let alone get beat the F*** unconcious. They're just the facts.
So i suppose Tyson losing to journeyman Douglas or Tyson losing to Williams makes him bad and wasn't great in his prime ??
Jones had lost his reflexes speed and confidence thats pretty obvisious how many greats have lost to fighters when there past there prime ?? Robinson even lost Terry Downes so does that make him not good or not great in his prime ??
Jones just like many greats have lost to fighters they wouldn't of in there prime that still doesn't take away how amazing Jones was.
OK, so going by your reckoning.. Sheikas win over Johnson doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses, Johnsons win over Roy doesn't mean S*** - cos there's excuses...That can go on forever.
You can make excuses for anyones wins or losses.
Jones win over Toney doesn't mean S***.. Toney was weight funked. Jones win over Hopkins doesn't mean S***.. Hopkins was green. Excuses, excuses, excuses....
Your just talking nonsense now i was giving you examples of great fighters losing to fighters while being past there prime that they wouldn't have in there prime its obvisious Jones was past his prime its not an excuse all you have to do is watch a prime Jones then go watch that version of Jones who fought Johnson and see the difference and Toney was p4p top 5 and was 44-0 yes your right Fenster Jones victory over him means nothing ::**
You do know Toney always has trouble with weight right ??
Yep.
I'm just showing you excuses can be made for anyone.
Why do you rate Clinton Woods as one of Jones better wins?
I rate that goodish win not one of his better wins Griffin, Toney, Hopkins, Hill, Ruiz, Pazienza, I would say them victorys are Jones better wins.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Now list Calzaghe's best wins....(I know you think they're all shit, but the best of the shitsters)
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Now list Calzaghe's best wins....(I know you think they're all S***, but the best of the shitsters)
Chris Eubank
Robin Reid
Jeff Lacy
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer
Mario Veit
Byron Mitchell
Omar Sheika
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Nice one ;)
Roys best
Griffin
Toney
Hopkins
Hill
Ruiz
Pazienza
Hopkins best
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Calzaghe best
Chris Eubank
Robin Reid
Jeff Lacy
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer
Mario Veit
Byron Mitchell
Omar Sheika
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Nice one ;)
Roys best
Montel Griffin
James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
Virgil Hill
John Ruiz
Vinny Pazienza
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
Merqui Sosa
Thomas Tate
Mike McCallum Old
Hopkins best
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Calzaghe best
Chris Eubank
Robin Reid
Jeff Lacy
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer
Mario Veit
Byron Mitchell
Omar Sheika
Fixed ;)
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Nice one ;)
Roys best
Montel Griffin
James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
Virgil Hill
John Ruiz
Vinny Pazienza
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
Merqui Sosa
Thomas Tate
Mike McCallum Old
Hopkins best
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
Calzaghe best
Chris Eubank
Robin Reid
Jeff Lacy
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer
Mario Veit
Byron Mitchell
Omar Sheika
Fixed ;)
Actually can you just pick a top 5 for each man. Cheers. Just number them.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Sure mate.
Roy Jones
James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
John Ruiz
Bernard Hopkins
Antonio Tarver
Felix Trinidad
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Keith Holmes
Joe Calzaghe
Chris Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Robin Reid
Charles Brewer
Richie Woodhall
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by helminth
He wants to make Kelly Pavlik hungry to go up and fight him. Then, if Pavlik did which he shouldn't, Joe would back out like a little wimpy ladyboy.
Ur Knoledge and insight is so graet that my brain could not comprehend it's logic.
In fact it was so far beyond the reaches of my mind it apopears in my eyes to be total b******t.
Nevermind ;)
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
I think the point Fenster is trying to make by bringing up Roy and B-hop is that you can criticise anyone's career if you look closely enough. He's probably annoyed like me about some of the earlier posts in this thread by some of the other guys which were just pure hate and criticism without any logical argument to back it up, like saying JC's a wimp and has never fought anyone that was a danger to him. Can't argue with guys like that, they'd still find something wrong with him if he knocked out Kess, Pav and B-hop in the same night, that's why I didn't get involved in this thread earlier.
Anyways, just a couple of points in defence of some of the defences JC has made (though you can't defend all of them). You mention Clinton as one of Roy's goodish defences, though you don't mention Starie who JC fought even though he inflicted Clinton's 1st defeat. Also Eastman is considered as one of Hopkins better opponents, even though he would have lost to Ashira if it wasn't for some dodgy judging, a guy that Calzaghe was rightly ridiculed for taking on.
I only mention those guys because one of the arguments to discredit JC's reign was including looking up some past opponent of Sheika's who beat him on boxrec, though it had no inclination on the guys form coming into the JC fight.
I don't mind people criticising some of JC's career choices, but calling him a wimp is unnacceptable, especially considering he took on Lacy, a guy that was considered AT THE TIME, as the most dangerous opponent he can face, and also the fact that he's doing the same again by facing Kessler.
If he beats Kessler, his name will rightly be mentioned alongside the likes of Hagler, Roy and B-hop in boxing history, as his record will stand up to just as much scrutiny as theirs.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
I think the point Fenster is trying to make by bringing up Roy and B-hop is that you can criticise anyone's career if you look closely enough. He's probably annoyed like me about some of the earlier posts in this thread by some of the other guys which were just pure hate and criticism without any logical argument to back it up, like saying JC's a wimp and has never fought anyone that was a danger to him. Can't argue with guys like that, they'd still find something wrong with him if he knocked out Kess, Pav and B-hop in the same night, that's why I didn't get involved in this thread earlier.
Anyways, just a couple of points in defence of some of the defences JC has made (though you can't defend all of them). You mention Clinton as one of Roy's goodish defences, though you don't mention Starie who JC fought even though he inflicted Clinton's 1st defeat. Also Eastman is considered as one of Hopkins better opponents, even though he would have lost to Ashira if it wasn't for some dodgy judging, a guy that Calzaghe was rightly ridiculed for taking on.
I only mention those guys because one of the arguments to discredit JC's reign was including looking up some past opponent of Sheika's who beat him on boxrec, though it had no inclination on the guys form coming into the JC fight.
I don't mind people criticising some of JC's career choices, but calling him a wimp is unnacceptable, especially considering he took on Lacy, a guy that was considered AT THE TIME, as the most dangerous opponent he can face, and also the fact that he's doing the same again by facing Kessler.
If he beats Kessler, his name will rightly be mentioned alongside the likes of Hagler, Roy and B-hop in boxing history, as his record will stand up to just as much scrutiny as theirs.
Nice one, Bomp. David Starie through Clinton Woods was exactly where I was going...
But in the end, what's the point if people can't see the hypocrisy in their own arguments.. waste of time.
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
I think the point Fenster is trying to make by bringing up Roy and B-hop is that you can criticise anyone's career if you look closely enough. He's probably annoyed like me about some of the earlier posts in this thread by some of the other guys which were just pure hate and criticism without any logical argument to back it up, like saying JC's a wimp and has never fought anyone that was a danger to him. Can't argue with guys like that, they'd still find something wrong with him if he knocked out Kess, Pav and B-hop in the same night, that's why I didn't get involved in this thread earlier.
Anyways, just a couple of points in defence of some of the defences JC has made (though you can't defend all of them). You mention Clinton as one of Roy's goodish defences, though you don't mention Starie who JC fought even though he inflicted Clinton's 1st defeat. Also Eastman is considered as one of Hopkins better opponents, even though he would have lost to Ashira if it wasn't for some dodgy judging, a guy that Calzaghe was rightly ridiculed for taking on.
I only mention those guys because one of the arguments to discredit JC's reign was including looking up some past opponent of Sheika's who beat him on boxrec, though it had no inclination on the guys form coming into the JC fight.
I don't mind people criticising some of JC's career choices, but calling him a wimp is unnacceptable, especially considering he took on Lacy, a guy that was considered AT THE TIME, as the most dangerous opponent he can face, and also the fact that he's doing the same again by facing Kessler.
If he beats Kessler, his name will rightly be mentioned alongside the likes of Hagler, Roy and B-hop in boxing history, as his record will stand up to just as much scrutiny as theirs.
Nice one, Bomp. David Starie through Clinton Woods was exactly where I was going...
But in the end, what's the point if people can't see the hypocrisy in their own arguments.. waste of time.
Agreed, I'm actually tired of the same old debates, if you can actually call them that. cc
Re: Joe Calzaghe invites Kelly Pavlik to Cardiff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ok, well ive seen you list Woods as one of Jones better wins plenty of times...
What are Hopkins best wins?
No i just do a list and put Woods in it but i rate it goodish win like i said.
Hopkins best wins ??
Felix Trinidad
Glen Johnson
Oscar Dela Hoya
Winky Wright
Howard Eastman
William Joppy
Autwun Echols
Simon Brown
Keith Holmes
Antonio Tarver
I think the point Fenster is trying to make by bringing up Roy and B-hop is that you can criticise anyone's career if you look closely enough. He's probably annoyed like me about some of the earlier posts in this thread by some of the other guys which were just pure hate and criticism without any logical argument to back it up, like saying JC's a wimp and has never fought anyone that was a danger to him. Can't argue with guys like that, they'd still find something wrong with him if he knocked out Kess, Pav and B-hop in the same night, that's why I didn't get involved in this thread earlier.
Anyways, just a couple of points in defence of some of the defences JC has made (though you can't defend all of them). You mention Clinton as one of Roy's goodish defences, though you don't mention Starie who JC fought even though he inflicted Clinton's 1st defeat. Also Eastman is considered as one of Hopkins better opponents, even though he would have lost to Ashira if it wasn't for some dodgy judging, a guy that Calzaghe was rightly ridiculed for taking on.
I only mention those guys because one of the arguments to discredit JC's reign was including looking up some past opponent of Sheika's who beat him on boxrec, though it had no inclination on the guys form coming into the JC fight.
I don't mind people criticising some of JC's career choices, but calling him a wimp is unnacceptable, especially considering he took on Lacy, a guy that was considered AT THE TIME, as the most dangerous opponent he can face, and also the fact that he's doing the same again by facing Kessler.
If he beats Kessler, his name will rightly be mentioned alongside the likes of Hagler, Roy and B-hop in boxing history, as his record will stand up to just as much scrutiny as theirs.
Nice one, Bomp. David Starie through Clinton Woods was exactly where I was going...
But in the end, what's the point if people can't see the hypocrisy in their own arguments.. waste of time.
Agreed, I'm actually tired of the same old debates, if you can actually call them that. cc
Lol you are a smart one bomp lol
if your tired of this subject then why keep posting u are keeping the subject on the front page you idiot !!!!!!!!
