This was the real deal between Calzaghe and Hopkins in 2002!

Well we do not know how much money Cal would of made but eagle 3 mill that is a lot of money for Bernard and it not like Cal wasn't a undefeated champion so i do not see why he did not take it to tell you the truth and will never know

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well we do not know how much money Cal would of made but eagle 3 mill that is a lot of money for Bernard and it not like Cal wasn't a undefeated champion so i do not see why he did not take it to tell you the truth and will never know

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The reason is because everything else was stacked in Joes favor. Why should Joe get more money than Hopkins, when hopkins had fought the tougher opponents and had unified 160, when all joe had done was win the wbo belt at that stage.

Yea but at the same time he did beat about everyone there was to beat in his division and for 3 mill i think Bernard would take it

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea but at the same time he did beat about everyone there was to beat in his division and for 3 mill i think Bernard would take it

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In 2002 Joes biggest win was a shot Eubank. He hadnt even beat Lacy yet. If Joe and Frank were so desperate for the fight why didnt they take a paycut and give Bernard the 6 million? U wanna know why, cos they were more interested in the money than the actual fight, yet when Bernard went after more money they accused him of being scared. Massive hypocrisy going on there.

And as if they wanna prove my point i got 3 SC's from the Joe C fanboys last night which just shows that if u say anything negative against him u are attacked more than if u are critical of any other fighter on this forum.

Eagle i never said he was scared but i do think he wanted a fight with more reward less risk meaning a bigger name that he would most likely win

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Interestingly enough the part of the story that makes it BS has allready been pointed out,and missed.
King isnt Hopkins promoter,and Bernard doesnt like him a little bit,so there is no way hed have been negotiating with King as his prole promotional representitive
Its a BS story,but the Calzeghe people would love for it to be true,because that way Joe hasnt dodged anyone,they dodged him.
Bernard wouldnt have done it at the time,he wanted the record for consecutive title defenses,and even if he had tried,King wouldnt have been his Promotional Representive

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So what you're saying is that Jay Larkin is a liar, and that the scenario he described is entirely fictional?

Larkin saying that he arranged that fight in another interview, but that Hopkins reneged on the deal.
http://archive.southwalesargus.co.uk.../30/66918.html

Larkin calling Hopkins extremely volatile and unpredictable.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...0/soboxx30.xml

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Well he must be because at the time Hopkins managed himself,and wasnt represented by Mr King in any way shape or form
So there would be no need for Mr King to be in the room
In other words,lets create a nice myth the fannies will by,that everyone else will know is BS,where it wasnt Joe ducking the world,the world ducked Joe
Before he signed on with Golden Boy,Bernard allways represented himself,and if you knew anything about anything,youd know that at the time Bernard's biggest goal was 20 defenses

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Interestingly enough the part of the story that makes it BS has allready been pointed out,and missed.
King isnt Hopkins promoter,and Bernard doesnt like him a little bit,so there is no way hed have been negotiating with King as his prole promotional representitive
Its a BS story,but the Calzeghe people would love for it to be true,because that way Joe hasnt dodged anyone,they dodged him.
Bernard wouldnt have done it at the time,he wanted the record for consecutive title defenses,and even if he had tried,King wouldnt have been his Promotional Representive

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So what you're saying is that Jay Larkin is a liar, and that the scenario he described is entirely fictional?

Larkin saying that he arranged that fight in another interview, but that Hopkins reneged on the deal.
http://archive.southwalesargus.co.uk.../30/66918.html

Larkin calling Hopkins extremely volatile and unpredictable.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...0/soboxx30.xml

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Well he must be because at the time Hopkins managed himself,and wasnt represented by Mr King in any way shape or form
So there would be no need for Mr King to be in the room
In other words,lets create a nice myth the fannies will by,that everyone else will know is BS,where it wasnt Joe ducking the world,the world ducked Joe
Before he signed on with Golden Boy,Bernard allways represented himself,and if you knew anything about anything,youd know that at the time Bernard's biggest goal was 20 defenses

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Now then, a quick glance across the thread has around 8 posters believing Jay Larkin's statement, 6 people poo-pooing it, and three or four not expressing direct opinions either way. So what you're really saying is that the majority of the posters here expressing opinions here are fannies???

Even Daxx is willing to accept that Hopkins was in on the deal in some way:

"Rhun we know the fight was rejected but it is the reasons why the camp of Warren and his people give that is pure BS!!!...Like I stated in my last post it was not rejected because Hopkins was avoiding Calzaghe...people hear this and all of a sudden it is ...Oh B-hop was soo scared to fight Calzaghe he turned down 3 million.....Are we kidding here??...Any man be it Hopkins or otherwise would fight 3 bears with steak's taped to their a** for 3 mil......It has nothing to do with the 3 mil it has to do with the fact he refused to let Warren and his team dictate the terms.....Period... .

As far as King goes Hopkins fighting for him has nothing to do with it we all know King can care less about terms or what is right all he wants is his cut...."

and people sit in on meetings they might not neccassarily have any direct interest in, but may want to move in on all the time, so I just can't see it being so far fetched for him to have been there.

Wow! I am not sure what I just walked into here but with the risk of being banished before I even get started around here I will say this. We don't know what the actual terms were for the fight. We all know that in boxing everyone tends to exaggerate a bit and will always say what they have to so they look like the good guy who was being screwed.

In 2002 Joe Calzaghe was still looking for respect he had not really yet earned. As much as people hate to admit it he was still in need of proving himself at that point. In 2002 his only wins over some real names were Chris Eubank, Omar Sheika, Mario Veit and Charles Brewer. Eubank was on his way out, Sheika was and no real big accomplishment and Brewer had lost his title years before to Ottke who had not even had 15 fights yet. To make matters worse the WBO title was a joke at the time.

Bernard Hopkins would mess up a lottery win. If he hit for 10 million he would call up and tell them he wanted 25 because thats what the guy won last month. That is not a secret, If I am correct here Hopkins did not get his first million dollar pay day until the middleweight unifaction tourney in 2001 or somewhere near that time. Any man who holds a title above 140 pounds and is champion more then 5 years before making 7 figures in this day and age shows he is not exactly the most easy guy to negotiate with. Bi-polar in the pocket book if you will

One guy claims 3 million another 6 million, but the question really is had anyone signed the contract? Offers mean nothing until put in ink. Calzaghe and his team may have offered 3 million then Hopkins people did not like something so they said 6 million. This happens all the time, this is how one camp gets the other to agree to terms and in the end find out how bad the other wants the fight.

A champion who had already broken the record for most title defenses and who was considered by most to be the only champion of his division while the other's just title holders needs not to agree to anything, titles on the line or not.

If Joe Calzaghe wanted to fight Bernard Hopkins so bad he could have found a way to make the middleweight limit and earned one just like everyone else, he didn't so the fight must not have meant that much to him. If Bernard Hopkins felt as though he needed the fight to prove something he would have gained a few pounds met at the catchweight and made the attempt to proved it.

This is not a matter of why one changed his mind or another stating he made an offer that was rejected because of reason XYZ. Each man could have done what it took to make the fight happen. All that tells me is neither wanted the fight that bad. Then or Now. It is like the two toughest kids in school meeting in the park at 3 o'clock to prove the king of the playground then after all the insults neither one throws a punch but talks a good game. The next day both guys have a huge story on why they did not throw the first shot.

From what I have read through all the post here I can say that Bernard Hopkins did not change his so called agreement of 3 million because he was afraid to fight Calzaghe. Calzaghe did not wave a check for 3 million in front of Hopkins with his signature on a contract stating the venue would be in the states. If it was inked both would have signed.

There is my 2 cents stretched out into a nickle :)

Anyway this looks like the place to be for a good debate ;D, I just hope it isn't always so heated :-\

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Originally Posted by Body Puncher

Wow! I am not sure what I just walked into here but with the risk of being banished before I even get started around here I will say this. We don't know what the actual terms were for the fight. We all know that in boxing everyone tends to exaggerate a bit and will always say what they have to so they look like the good guy who was being screwed.

In 2002 Joe Calzaghe was still looking for respect he had not really yet earned. As much as people hate to admit it he was still in need of proving himself at that point. In 2002 his only wins over some real names were Chris Eubank, Omar Sheika, Mario Veit and Charles Brewer. Eubank was on his way out, Sheika was and no real big accomplishment and Brewer had lost his title years before to Ottke who had not even had 15 fights yet. To make matters worse the WBO title was a joke at the time.

Bernard Hopkins would mess up a lottery win. If he hit for 10 million he would call up and tell them he wanted 25 because thats what the guy won last month. That is not a secret, If I am correct here Hopkins did not get his first million dollar pay day until the middleweight unifaction tourney in 2001 or somewhere near that time. Any man who holds a title above 140 pounds and is champion more then 5 years before making 7 figures in this day and age shows he is not exactly the most easy guy to negotiate with. Bi-polar in the pocket book if you will

One guy claims 3 million another 6 million, but the question really is had anyone signed the contract? Offers mean nothing until put in ink. Calzaghe and his team may have offered 3 million then Hopkins people did not like something so they said 6 million. This happens all the time, this is how one camp gets the other to agree to terms and in the end find out how bad the other wants the fight.

A champion who had already broken the record for most title defenses and who was considered by most to be the only champion of his division while the other's just title holders needs not to agree to anything, titles on the line or not.

If Joe Calzaghe wanted to fight Bernard Hopkins so bad he could have found a way to make the middleweight limit and earned one just like everyone else, he didn't so the fight must not have meant that much to him. If Bernard Hopkins felt as though he needed the fight to prove something he would have gained a few pounds met at the catchweight and made the attempt to proved it.

This is not a matter of why one changed his mind or another stating he made an offer that was rejected because of reason XYZ. Each man could have done what it took to make the fight happen. All that tells me is neither wanted the fight that bad. Then or Now. It is like the two toughest kids in school meeting in the park at 3 o'clock to prove the king of the playground then after all the insults neither one throws a punch but talks a good game. The next day both guys have a huge story on why they did not throw the first shot.

From what I have read through all the post here I can say that Bernard Hopkins did not change his so called agreement of 3 million because he was afraid to fight Calzaghe. Calzaghe did not wave a check for 3 million in front of Hopkins with his signature on a contract stating the venue would be in the states. If it was inked both would have signed.

There is my 2 cents stretched out into a nickle :)

Anyway this looks like the place to be for a good debate ;D, I just hope it isn't always so heated :-\

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Thats what you call letting it all hang out for a "New" member.
Welcome aboard and enjoy the Melee and yes it gets very passionate around here.Stumbled upon this thread last night ...very Impressive.I feel like I'm on the floor of the stock exchange though.IMO no fighter is Scared or a coward before a fight, maybe one could over price himself out of Ego or be a ruthless (smart)business man but not a coward. You find that out when they touch gloves.Should Hopkins hang around another year .This is one I want to see.I think they have proved themselves NOW and deserve top dollars.

Why do you Calzcrappy groupies always use the Hopkins situation to try and back up your boy? When in reality all it does is show your boys true lack of heart. Now I'm going explain this shit to you people one more time.

Hopkins did verbally accept (he hadn't signed a contract, yet) a $3 million offer to fight Calzaghe. But before he could sign a contract, Oscar De La Hoya expressed an interest to fight Hopkins. Hopkins knew (hell, everybody knew) a De La Hoya fight was worse 10 times (if not more) than a Calzaghe fight. Not to mention the fact that his purse would be 3 times what his purse for the Calzaghe fight would be. Since no contracts were signed, Hopkins was within his right to pull out of the Calzaghe fight. Anybody with any brains would of done the same thing. But rather than just dismiss Calzaghe completely, Hopkins actually gave him an option. Double his purse and the fight can go on. 6 million was not a price out number. It was a reasonable amount. Hopkins was the undisputed middleweight champion and at the time was consider the p4p # 1 fighter. Not to mention the fact that Hopkins was the one who was going to Calzaghe's division. Not the other way around. Since Calzaghe had been crying for years that he wanted to fight a big name, this shouldn't of been much of a problem. But it was. Calzaghe (not surprisingly) decline the offer and went back to his usual crying that he can't get a big fight.

The 3 fights Hopkins took before Del La Hoya were necessary for the De La Hoya fight to happen. The Morrade Hakkar fight was a joke. But it was also a WBC mandatory. Hopkins took it to keep from being stripped. Hopkins was still under contract to Don King for one more fight. The William Joppy fight took care of that. He than fought Robert Allen to stay busy/showcase while Oscar fought for the one belt Hopkins didn't own. The WBO. In the end it all lead to Hopkins making the most money he ever made. Which was more than 3 times what his purse for the Calzaghe fight would of been. For anybody to say Hopkins ducked anybody is just stupid. The man is not afraid of anybody. I can't say the same about Calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

but not one answered my question....

EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY HOW HOPKINS FEARS CALZAGHE BECAUSE HE DECIDED TO SAY THE HELL WITH YOU GUYS YOU LIKE TO PLAY BULLSHIT GAMES THEN I WANT 6MILLION NOW F**** THE 3 I AGREED UPON....Or have they showed me one example of where Hopkins was scared or how he was scared to fight Calzaghe....It was politics and that was that!!! trying to even get a debate with a Calzaghe fan is impossible!!!!......I have heard guys on these boards claim...not in this exact thread but guys I have argued with on this thread...claim Calzaghe would have destroyed Roy Jones at 168 if they met prime for prime.....

Hopkins was supposed to give up his belt or waste his time with Calzaghe because Warren and Joe said so and the fans here who are rubbing themselves right this minute with pictures of Calzaghe wishing they could clean his underwear for a living....

I will not debate with another Calzaghe fan here again....Everyone can cry and say what they want but fact is just as they claim Hopkins, Jones, Tyson, Lewis, Ali Marciano and everyone else avoids Calzaghe and half those guys retired over 25yrs ago or more and not even in the SMW division.......My question was not answered...PERIOD!!!!!


If Kessler beats Joe next week what will they do then?? Half will commit suicide the other half send him letters asking if they can massage his nuts....

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First off Daxx, have a beer, smoke a joint, and chill the f**k out. I believed it wasn\'t your question which was never answered, but mine. I never said I believe Hopkins fears Calzaghe per se, I just said that I don\'t buy the excuse that you\'re putting forward for Hopkins doubling his demands. He is offered a sum of money, accepts it, and after thinking about it decides to double his demands. And by \"bulls**t games\", do you mean agreeing to fight in the USA and offering him a career high purse in a catchweight fight that would not affect the status of Hopkins\' title? Because they don\'t fall into my definition of \"bulls**t games\". And as Bomp says, Hopkins and Jones are just as bad for negotiation as are the Calzaghe camp, as shown by this episode.

And for the record, I have never given Frank Warren nor Joe Calzaghe a blowjob, nor am I either man\'s bitch. Should Joe lose on Saturday, I will not commit suicide nor write him a letter asking to massage his nuts. I\'ll probably go home, have a couple of beers, and talk over the fight with some mates. Possibly come on here, and talk about it some too.

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Than your not as big a fan as Preme is. :splurt:

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LOL

Since talking negative about Joe C on this thread i have recieved 6 SC's to make a total of 49 in over 3 years being on this site. Again this just proves how Joes fans more than any other fighters fans cannot handle criticism of their boy. Even worse than PACFANS!!!
The other point is that i get these SC's yet no one has written back to prove me wrong.

What the fuck are you talking about eagle you are just being a dick is probably why you are sad clicked and that does not mean it is a Joe fan

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Originally Posted by Mr140

What the F*** are you talking about eagle you are just being a dick is probably why you are sad clicked and that does not mean it is a Joe fan

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Im not the only one has has noticed that. Loads of good posters on this site have noticed how it is near on impossible to say anything negative about Joe without being SC'ed to the shithouse or called names. 49 SC in nearly 4 years would probably prove im not a dick and i rarely get SC'ed. Who are u anyway? U write one line posts that make 0 sense, dont back up anyof your arguments with facts and then call me a dick?
The fact is that Hopkins has the much greater resume than Joe C. He has fought the better opposition and just os he asked for more money from JoeC dont mean he was scared to fight him, it more than likely means he ws just after a fairer deal. Again i ask when has Joe C during his title run ever fought onm the oppositions terms and for less money?
He never has.

Well my friend here is a Sc form me have a nice day being mad at the joe fans

What arguments are you talking about and have you read every post that i have made

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Originally Posted by eagle

U never answered the question, who would have made more money if Hopkins had taken the 3 million, of course its Joe and that wouldnt have been fair since Hopkins had the much better resume in 2002.

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The reason no-one has answered your question regarding how much Joe would of made is because no-one knows. But for you to assume Calzaghe would of made more is quite frankly naive and a bit silly. Calzaghe's biggest payday to that point was in the hundred-thousands not millions.

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Originally Posted by eagle

He fought RJJ in 1993 and hadnt even won a world title yet. By 2002 Hopkins had 17 defenses and was the undisputed MW champ. hence the difference in the amount of money in the 2 fights. So u look stupid for even saying that.

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I was showing the money difference.. Tongue-in-cheek styley. ;)

You said why would Hopkins be scared of Joe when he fought Roy? Of course Hopkins wouldn't of made as much back then. But the fact is he demanded $5,850,000 more to fight Joe than what he accepted to fight Roy. Fact.... ;D

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Mr140

What the F*** are you talking about eagle you are just being a dick is probably why you are sad clicked and that does not mean it is a Joe fan

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Again i ask when has Joe C during his title run ever fought onm the oppositions terms and for less money?
He never has.

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Err.. you see that as a bad thing? Thats very naive, old son. And if true, all it highlights is what a fantastic manager he must have.

So turn it in PLEASE no-one wants to praise Frank Warren. ::**

this is a subject that has been around a long time and keeps coming back coz it would have been a very interesting fight....................... but it aint gona happen

fact is bernard hopkins was always the bigger name, he was the unifyed champ. lets not forget the wbo belt wasn't until just 4-5 years ago seen as a propa world title, i remember when the wba and wbc would strip you of there belts if you held the wbo.......... so b-hop was a bigger name therefore sadly joe should have gone out there. marvin haglar came to london to beat alan minter an take the middle weight title back to america so joe should have gone out there to bring the title back to the uk

it would have been a great fight in 2002......... shame we'll never know

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

U never answered the question, who would have made more money if Hopkins had taken the 3 million, of course its Joe and that wouldnt have been fair since Hopkins had the much better resume in 2002.

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The reason no-one has answered your question regarding how much Joe would of made is because no-one knows. But for you to assume Calzaghe would of made more is quite frankly naive and a bit silly. Calzaghe's biggest payday to that point was in the hundred-thousands not millions.

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Originally Posted by eagle

He fought RJJ in 1993 and hadnt even won a world title yet. By 2002 Hopkins had 17 defenses and was the undisputed MW champ. hence the difference in the amount of money in the 2 fights. So u look stupid for even saying that.

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I was showing the money difference.. Tongue-in-cheek styley. ;)

You said why would Hopkins be scared of Joe when he fought Roy? Of course Hopkins wouldn't of made as much back then. But the fact is he demanded $5,850,000 more to fight Joe than what he accepted to fight Roy. Fact.... ;D

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Are u really all there? $150,000 was not a bad pay day for a guy who had not won a title in 1993.
Also if Joe had not been paid in the millions yet even though he'd had many defenses his manager is not good as thid other fanboy

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by eagle

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Originally Posted by Mr140

What the F*** are you talking about eagle you are just being a dick is probably why you are sad clicked and that does not mean it is a Joe fan

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Again i ask when has Joe C during his title run ever fought onm the oppositions terms and for less money?
He never has.

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Err.. you see that as a bad thing? Thats very naive, old son. And if true, all it highlights is what a fantastic manager he must have.

So turn it in PLEASE no-one wants to praise Frank Warren. ::**

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has suggested here.

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Originally Posted by eagle

Since talking negative about Joe C on this thread i have recieved 6 SC's to make a total of 49 in over 3 years being on this site.

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Don't worry I got 2 as well lol ;D

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Originally Posted by CRIME

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Originally Posted by skel1983

So Calzaghe is a bitch thats scared to fight the best is he?? The only two fighters who he realistally could of fought in his time are Hopkins and Ottke and both ran a mile, Warren offered Ottke numberous chances to fight Joe in Germany for a career high earner, but most of these German fighters have there own market in Germany and can make plenty of cash without actully facing a challenge.


Bernard Hopkins

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30trh, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, DOn King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, dobule the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

Then we have good old Sven!!! Now if anyone thinks Calzaghe ducked Ottke needs a slap, becasue Ottke was average Joe would of made him look silly.

Sven Ottke

"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren

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Hopkins is one of the most overrated boxers of all time. He had two 50-50 fights with JT, the boxer who lost to limited Pavlik. I would like to watch a Hopkins against Calzaghe or Kessler :-D

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Sorry... I must have read wrong... Did you just call Pavlik Limited? He's a power puncher that can box or slug.... and fight through adversity and get off the mat to win... What the hell are you talking about... SC to you my limited poster! :o

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Originally Posted by skel1983

So Calzaghe is a bitch thats scared to fight the best is he?? The only two fighters who he realistally could of fought in his time are Hopkins and Ottke and both ran a mile, Warren offered Ottke numberous chances to fight Joe in Germany for a career high earner, but most of these German fighters have there own market in Germany and can make plenty of cash without actully facing a challenge.


Bernard Hopkins

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30trh, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, DOn King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, dobule the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

Then we have good old Sven!!! Now if anyone thinks Calzaghe ducked Ottke needs a slap, becasue Ottke was average Joe would of made him look silly.

Sven Ottke

"We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren

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All this says is that Hopkins is a bad negotiator..... which is true judging by his past nature.