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Did anyone else catch this part of the site Lyle posted. It sums up my argument that evolution isn't scientific but is philosophy.
Karl Popper suggested that a theory should be considered scientific if and only if it can in principle be falsified by experiment; any idea not susceptible to falsification does not belong to science.
AL 18:37Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
"......and all those with their own mind and head not up their ass , dont listen to John or any other of the magical religious control-ism bullshit ".
And there ends my thought for the day.
Al had a thought for the day???
ALERT THE MEDIA! ;D
Al there's nothing wrong with being spiritual or believing in the Bible or Jesus or whatever religion you want to mention but once organized religion takes over you're in trouble. All Organized religion is The New Roman Empire, The Persian Empire (Shia Muslims), The Arab Empire (Sunni Muslims) and so on and so forth....it's the same thing just in a different more accepted package.
I advocate thinking for yourself and using any scripture to learn about a different more peaceful way of thinking and being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Freedom of thought is one thing in life , but fairy tales from all around the world . Well each to their own i guess.
But you ever wonder if you have a jewish friend and you are say muslim or christian , one of you if not all of you are wrong in what you believe ?
OR FOR CONVIENIENCE IS THERE LOTS OF " GOD'S " MAYBE THEY SUBCONTRACTED THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ?
Your opinion is fine Lyle but for me it doesnt come close to adding up , or making any sence what so ever.
Evolution is how life is created - sun - water natural elements not some guy sat on a cloud.
I have no problem with the theory of evolution but the question is 'if' there indeed were evolution, what force lead those very simple elements to transform into very complex beings called humans. I think I can sit in front of a big pond with all necessary elements inside and watch it for billion years and still nothing would have happened unless there is some force that will lead them to evolve. This is common sense, there must be some force involved and it must be some guided force, or else it would clearly have been a haphazard sort of evolution, a messy one instead of perfectly symmetrical ones. This is what I call a life force. Now where this life force is coming from is what we are debating here, right? I think there must be this sort of a central nerve center where these forces come from and where they are guided from. So what or Who can it be. Some deny its existence, some call it a universal mind, while the rest says it's God. The problem with us humans is that we tend to mold God's image with how our very limited mind can imagine. If there was God, He will naturally be someone so complex that he would be way beyond our imagination and comprehension. I guess that's why our mind still can't grasp Him, or else there will be none of this debate, right? Think about it, folks. The problem with some of our science guys is that they tend to think only from a fixed point of view; you got to 'think out of the box' sometimes, so to speak, to see the whole truth. Keep your minds open folks, keep 'em open.
Al,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Freedom of thought is one thing in life , but fairy tales from all around the world . Well each to their own i guess.
But you ever wonder if you have a jewish friend and you are say muslim or christian , one of you if not all of you are wrong in what you believe ?
OR FOR CONVIENIENCE IS THERE LOTS OF " GOD'S " MAYBE THEY SUBCONTRACTED THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ?
Your opinion is fine Lyle but for me it doesnt come close to adding up , or making any sence what so ever.
Evolution is how life is created - sun - water natural elements not some guy sat on a cloud.
This is exactly why evolution isn't and can't be considered science. First off proving or disproving whether there is a God doesn't prove evolution. See evolution always has an agenda and is trying to prove it by forcing the facts into a preconceived notion. Proving that evolution doesn't exist doesn't prove there is a God either. It simply eliminates a possibility.
Your argument is the exact reason I keep posting in this thread. You claim that evolution makes sense, but I am quite sure you don't know very much about it or you wouldn't make that argument. It is a very poorly constructed theory and uses assumptions to support it rather than observations or tests. It is a philosophy plain and simple. No evidence for evolution exists, the only reason it is widely proposed and accepted is because the alternative is God and that is completely unacceptable for science. Here's a couple quotes from evolutionists....
“We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations.”
-Biochemist, Franklin M. Harold
"After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption that what, after long effort could not be proved to take place today, had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past." Loren Eiseley, Ph.D. Anthropology, The Immense Journey, Random House, NY, 1957, p. 199
The thing about evolution is that it makes sense if you listen to the general idea and don't look closely at the details. If you examine them closely you will see it doesn't make much sense. The evolution of a single process would be miraculous let alone thousands of them working in synchronization. Think of the systems required to support life just internally, not even counting the environment. The main idea goes back to a single celled life form.
I dare you to do a little research on a single celled life form and still explain to me how simple it is to have developed on its own. A single cell still has more moving parts and is more complicated than the computer you are reading this on. Check it out on your own.
What started everything out? You don't think it's freaking amazing that we had single cell orgamisms that were living beings? How many of the other planets in our Solar System have that?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Al if you bothered to check out what Joseph Campbell had to say maybe your eyes would be opened...he knew about ALL religions and compared and contrasted them and found out they usually all say the same thing which is un-freaking-believeable considering the travelling being so difficult and everything.
Over the centuries religion has done everything it could to supress science and scientific discoveries that conflicted with their dogma. Check what happened to Gallileo Gallilei for instance. Science is constantly questioning itself every single day. Nothing in the scientific world has ever been rigourously proved or ever will be, but a great number of scientific theories have overwhelming evidence of proof, like evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Biomechanical and biochemical actions on the ancient earth to create original life had billions of years to happen. No planning necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
There are plenty of examples of transitional species. Here are just a few. You could go and do a bit of research yourself and find plenty more :
talk.origins newsgroup
It depends what you mean by "scientists". There were also plenty of "scientists" that thought they could change lead into gold. But if we're talking about actual academic disciplines that developed their own methods of peer-reviewing of their discoveries based on observation, calculation etc. rather than a bunch of quacks making claims without evidence then no, no scientists have ever claimed the world was flat.
Evolution has been observed and measured endlessly. From Darwin discovering different shell shapes on Galapagos turtles (go read the hows and whys of just this single thing) there's more observation and testing of evolution than you could read in ten lifetimes. I've already posted examples of all this for you yet you continue to make the same arguments.
Once we've dealt with evolution we can start on quantum mechanics.
NCSE ResourceQuote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Hey science has also fought science before just look at the history of medicine no religion to stop any progress there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingOver the centuries religion has done everything it could to supress science and scientific discoveries that conflicted with their dogma. Check what happened to Gallileo Gallilei for instance. Science is constantly questioning itself every single day. Nothing in the scientific world has ever been rigourously proved or ever will be, but a great number of scientific theories have overwhelming evidence of proof, like evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingBiomechanical and biochemical actions on the ancient earth to create original life had billions of years to happen. No planning necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
There are plenty of examples of transitional species. Here are just a few. You could go and do a bit of research yourself and find plenty more :
talk.origins newsgroup
It depends what you mean by "scientists". There were also plenty of "scientists" that thought they could change lead into gold. But if we're talking about actual academic disciplines that developed their own methods of peer-reviewing of their discoveries based on observation, calculation etc. rather than a bunch of quacks making claims without evidence then no, no scientists have ever claimed the world was flat.
Evolution has been observed and measured endlessly. From Darwin discovering different shell shapes on Galapagos turtles (go read the hows and whys of just this single thing) there's more observation and testing of evolution than you could read in ten lifetimes. I've already posted examples of all this for you yet you continue to make the same arguments.
Once we've dealt with evolution we can start on quantum mechanics.
Checked out the sites you posted. I don't think we are talking about the same thing when it comes to transitional species. The examples are variations of the same species. That point is moot. There is no controversy that animals, and virtually all life adapt and have changes within the same species. There is however no real examples of a species that is in between or shows any real signs of being in between 2 species. The biggest problem with it all is that life is made of DNA which is basically nothing more than information. You can't get more information added from the same information, you could get different combinations of the same information but you cant get more and different. Single celled forms could reproduce but to also add information? Come on man. Look at the complexity of mapping DNA one error causes horrible results. Evolution proposes that random chance caused millions of versions of life to exist and mutate their dna randomly until a good one sticks and it keeps producing. How many generations would it have taken for the reproductive system to evolve? How many errors would it take for it to completely wipe out all life? Just think about that. When the jump to multiple celled creatures that reproduced sexually happened, the male and female both had to have been evolving at the same rate and both hit it in one generation or the species dies all together.....
Doh, I have to spread rep around !Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Well said Mate,couldnt agree more.
But there is more in all the scriptures if you wish to explore even on creation and evolution both are correct its a blend ;the real pathways back wasnt completly hidden either if you care to seek them.
All the bible bashers recon they are off to Heaven from one belife ,(CHristians number iin their millions) when in the bible it also states only 130,000 will be accending this next time around. It also states that if you are so much as luke warm you will be spat from the mouth of Christ etc.
Whats 3 million minus 130,000 ? MAybe the Good books creator accidently left a digit out...:rolleyes:
IT isnt just cut and dried there are many ways ,many groups,many destinations in many dimensions and many personal choices to either decend or to accend its not just one road up and the same one down (can be if you choose it).
It isnt just heaven and hell with Earth stuck in the middle we are on a muti-dimentional playing field,we in truth are a ball in space amongst trillions of others, some alive, some dormant, some dieing off, others being born, or transmuted, there is no real up and no real down to any of it from our physical stand point.
There is a black hole that spins like a plug hole and our whole solar system is heading slowly towards it. From our set of rules it looks devestating cause we cant exist there as our light disappears into it and appears to be consumed by it. Light speed is eternal ! it is not constant out there as we have measured it to be here.
I think i had better leave this debate before i offend any of you believers :) (which i dont intend to do as you are entitled to your opinions )
You have my deepest appreciation for your view point AL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Without yours; my one (Which is opposite to yours)could not exist as it does and would fall flat to all my sences.
Experience can only be had by relating to something else.
We are for the time being in duality supported by a third entity.
Its the third thing ot GOD that stands alone and does so by choice.
I only know I am here because I have something to relate to not being here.
If you were here on your own, zip, you would have no thing to relate to.
Everything is like that, but only in this the third dimension. The other 12 have different make ups completly but some simular only up to the 6th.
Seperation and relation cease at a certain frequency as does all physicality.:-X:-\:lickish::confused::rolleyes:;D:eek::p:mad::D:(;) :):o
:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
No offense taken. I was arguing evolution stand alone. Not as compared to another faith. That's when you see the holes in the theory. If you compare it to something else, it makes sense. If you try to stand it up on it's own, it won't do it.
The fact remains.....
A male and female of a species both had to evolve at the same time with a reproductive system in place and a method to feed the offspring, and themselves. And the food system had to evolve also and reproducing enough to feed the other thing long enough. There is no stand alone life form. It's all interdependent which makes evolution that much harder to believe.
You are entitled to your opinion as well, just don't call it a fact when it's an opinion, and not at all settled fact.
Excellent observation. The theory has some fatal loopholes that leaves it still just a theory after more than a century. One of its flaws is that it is anchored solely on the process of natural selection that must favor the most successful or prolific breeders; no other criteria are allowed. It fails to explain why we have eyebrows, which I discussed earlier. Definitely, the eyebrows, which protect our eyes from irritating sweats, has nothing to do with our ability to reproduce and continue our progeny. So why was it put there, for our convenience? Of course scientists will never accept that. I'm pretty sure there are other parts of our body that perform some useful functions in our life but have nothing to do with our ability to reproduce. So why are they there or why were they evolved?Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
No offense taken. I was arguing evolution stand alone. Not as compared to another faith. That's when you see the holes in the theory. If you compare it to something else, it makes sense. If you try to stand it up on it's own, it won't do it.
The fact remains.....
A male and female of a species both had to evolve at the same time with a reproductive system in place and a method to feed the offspring, and themselves. And the food system had to evolve also and reproducing enough to feed the other thing long enough. There is no stand alone life form. It's all interdependent which makes evolution that much harder to believe.
You are entitled to your opinion as well, just don't call it a fact when it's an opinion, and not at all settled fact.
True, very true.
That's why doctors now remove organs and say we don't need them anymore. I had a friend that was an untrained mechanic. He could figure some things out, but whenever he reassembled things there would always be leftover pieces. He said they weren't necessary, but he was always working on his car.
I ain't opting for having anything removed. Just because a human thinks it doesn't serve a purpose, doesn't mean they are right. I have seen enough bad medical advice, I ain't believing everything I hear from someone cause they have a long title or an impressive degree that they paid for.....
I have mingled with enough "professionals" to know that some idiots just make more money than others, and having a degree doesn't mean you're intelligent, just means you went to school and at least passed the minimum requirements.
Evolution doesn't work like that at all. Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for how DNA evolved, we're gaining more knowledge every day :
Scientists at The Scripps Research Institute have successfully converted an RNA enzyme (ribozyme) into a DNA enzyme (deoxyribozyme) through a process of accelerated in vitro evolution. The molecular conversion or transfer of both genetic information and catalytic function between these two different genetic systems, which are both based on nucleic acid-like molecules, is exactly what many scientists believe occurred during the very earliest period of earth's existence.
'Accelerated Evolution' Converts RNA Enzyme To DNA Enzyme In Vitro
And there are plenty of examples of transitional species, as already posted. There's also endless evidence to show that species on the earth today evolved from species that walked the earth millions of years ago. Here's the latest evidence, made public a few days ago :
In the first analysis of proteins extracted from dinosaur bones, scientists say they have established more firmly than ever that the closest living relatives of the mighty predator Tyrannosaurus rex are modern birds.
The research, being published Friday in the journal Science, yielded the first molecular data confirming the widely held hypothesis of a close dinosaur-bird ancestry, the American scientific team reported. The link was previously suggested by anatomical similarities.
In fact, the scientists said, T. rex shared more of its genetic makeup with ostriches and chickens than with living reptiles, like alligators. On this basis, the research team has redrawn the family tree of major vertebrate groups, assigning the dinosaur a new place in evolutionary relationships.
Similar molecular tests on tissues from the extinct mastodon confirmed its close genetic link to the elephant, as had been suspected from skeletal affinities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/sc...hp&oref=slogin
We also have DNA evidence showing evolution in a single species over short periods of time :
Using perfectly preserved, ancient DNA, scientists have demonstrated microevolution in a single species over a span of some 6,000 years. The researchers examined well-preserved bones of Adélie penguins (Pygoscelis adeliae) found in Antarctica and compared them to the birds' living descendants.
Ancient Penguin DNA Reveals Microevolution on Ice
Belive me when im 'not' saying your wrong. Evolution is a massive part of creation.I can see where people using a brain that is in two linked but seperate parts can see from one side or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingEvolution doesn't work like that at all. Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for how DNA evolved, we're gaining more knowledge every day :
Scientists at The Scripps Research Institute have successfully converted an RNA enzyme (ribozyme) into a DNA enzyme (deoxyribozyme) through a process of accelerated in vitro evolution. The molecular conversion or transfer of both genetic information and catalytic function between these two different genetic systems, which are both based on nucleic acid-like molecules, is exactly what many scientists believe occurred during the very earliest period of earth's existence.
'Accelerated Evolution' Converts RNA Enzyme To DNA Enzyme In Vitro
And there are plenty of examples of transitional species, as already posted. There's also endless evidence to show that species on the earth today evolved from species that walked the earth millions of years ago. Here's the latest evidence, made public a few days ago :
In the first analysis of proteins extracted from dinosaur bones, scientists say they have established more firmly than ever that the closest living relatives of the mighty predator Tyrannosaurus rex are modern birds.
The research, being published Friday in the journal Science, yielded the first molecular data confirming the widely held hypothesis of a close dinosaur-bird ancestry, the American scientific team reported. The link was previously suggested by anatomical similarities.
In fact, the scientists said, T. rex shared more of its genetic makeup with ostriches and chickens than with living reptiles, like alligators. On this basis, the research team has redrawn the family tree of major vertebrate groups, assigning the dinosaur a new place in evolutionary relationships.
Similar molecular tests on tissues from the extinct mastodon confirmed its close genetic link to the elephant, as had been suspected from skeletal affinities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/sc...hp&oref=slogin
We also have DNA evidence showing evolution in a single species over short periods of time :
Using perfectly preserved, ancient DNA, scientists have demonstrated microevolution in a single species over a span of some 6,000 years. The researchers examined well-preserved bones of Adélie penguins (Pygoscelis adeliae) found in Antarctica and compared them to the birds' living descendants.
Ancient Penguin DNA Reveals Microevolution on Ice
I belive that the fundamentalist religious can only see out of one side too.
Try this out for measure; what do you think or feel about this, is this just a massive coincedence as well? Take 9 min.
http://www.youtube.com/v/D39eGrx3a_A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingEvolution doesn't work like that at all. Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for how DNA evolved, we're gaining more knowledge every day :
Scientists at The Scripps Research Institute have successfully converted an RNA enzyme (ribozyme) into a DNA enzyme (deoxyribozyme) through a process of accelerated in vitro evolution. The molecular conversion or transfer of both genetic information and catalytic function between these two different genetic systems, which are both based on nucleic acid-like molecules, is exactly what many scientists believe occurred during the very earliest period of earth's existence.
'Accelerated Evolution' Converts RNA Enzyme To DNA Enzyme In Vitro
And there are plenty of examples of transitional species, as already posted. There's also endless evidence to show that species on the earth today evolved from species that walked the earth millions of years ago. Here's the latest evidence, made public a few days ago :
In the first analysis of proteins extracted from dinosaur bones, scientists say they have established more firmly than ever that the closest living relatives of the mighty predator Tyrannosaurus rex are modern birds.
The research, being published Friday in the journal Science, yielded the first molecular data confirming the widely held hypothesis of a close dinosaur-bird ancestry, the American scientific team reported. The link was previously suggested by anatomical similarities.
In fact, the scientists said, T. rex shared more of its genetic makeup with ostriches and chickens than with living reptiles, like alligators. On this basis, the research team has redrawn the family tree of major vertebrate groups, assigning the dinosaur a new place in evolutionary relationships.
Similar molecular tests on tissues from the extinct mastodon confirmed its close genetic link to the elephant, as had been suspected from skeletal affinities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/sc...hp&oref=slogin
We also have DNA evidence showing evolution in a single species over short periods of time :
Using perfectly preserved, ancient DNA, scientists have demonstrated microevolution in a single species over a span of some 6,000 years. The researchers examined well-preserved bones of Adélie penguins (Pygoscelis adeliae) found in Antarctica and compared them to the birds' living descendants.
Ancient Penguin DNA Reveals Microevolution on Ice
Micro evolution is a fact. And it is the only type of evolution that is anything more than a theory or hypothesis. The problem is using it to prove MACRO took place.
In a court room proving that a person stole candy when they were little, doesn't prove they just robbed the bank down the street. It's not physical evidence. All the evidence presented is micro not macro.
Still let's focus on this...
The reproduction of a species sexually. How many generations would it have taken to master it? Was there some other way of reproducing in place for that species until it was replaced by sexual reproduction?
Did the female and male species have to evolve at the same time?
First off, luvfightgame, I'm not trying to contradict you, or any of you here. But I'll be borrowing your point to prove my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As I've said, I have no problem with evolution. I think God can work through either creation or evolution. That's not impossible for me because I don't interpret the Bible literally. I think if there was an evolution, I think it was a guided evolution, guided somewhere from above, not the haphazard trial and error method as espoused by scientists, or else, I think it would have been an ugly evolution, not the perfectly symmetrical type we see in reality. That's the only way how some questions like how both sexes evolved simultaneously and why we were given eyebrows, which beautifully protect our eyes from our own sweat but which has nothing to do with our 'ability to multiply', which is the sole goal of the pure evolution theorists.
You know, folks, you may not believe this but there is this channel through which all these powers flow, call it whatever you wish, universal energy, universal mind or God Himself. This is the channel through which lifeforms on earth are guided, this is also the channel where all religious pray thru, and this is the channel through which we receive our knowledge... ...and this is also the channel where I :cool: get my ideas. Nuts, heh? Ask Andre.
I can only add one thing to that: Physical orientated thoughts are the only thing that gets in the way or blocks the energy or the information that comes down that pranic tube you are talking about; also blocks whats recorded in your dna.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfanFirst off, luvfightgame, I'm not trying to contradict you, or any of you here. But I'll be borrowing your point to prove my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As I've said, I have no problem with evolution. I think God can work through either creation or evolution. That's not impossible for me because I don't interpret the Bible literally. I think if there was an evolution, I think it was a guided evolution, guided somewhere from above, not the haphazard trial and error method as espoused by scientists, or else, I think it would have been an ugly evolution, not the perfectly symmetrical type we see in reality. That's the only way how some questions like how both sexes evolved simultaneously and why we were given eyebrows, which beautifully protect our eyes from our own sweat but which has nothing to do with our 'ability to multiply', which is the sole goal of the pure evolution theorists.
You know, folks, you may not believe this but there is this channel through which all these powers flow, call it whatever you wish, universal energy, universal mind or God Himself. This is the channel through which lifeforms on earth are guided, this is also the channel where all religious pray thru, and this is the channel through which we receive our knowledge... ...and this is also the channel where I :cool: get my ideas. Nuts, heh? Ask Andre.
The more you only think one way the less you can except from all the ways.
Its like asking God who are you? show yourself to me now,why am I here?why do you allow all this? Why me? why this pain? whats right ?whats wrong?all the while you are only really trying to justify your own view point or where you chose to stand ,still telling your own storyline.
You cant hear when your still talking/you cant meditate while still thinking.
How can you expect to hear Universal answers when your still busy with your own story?
"Silence is golden" for many reasons.
There is truth in : "better somethings end than in their begining."
Ask with an empty cup ,not a full one or even a half full one.
Grasshopper;D
Space/matter
Its the space within ,the window openings and the door openings that make a building useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there,usefulness from what is not there.
See both sides :o except both sides.
I'm pleased we both agree that microevolution is a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingEvolution doesn't work like that at all. Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for how DNA evolved, we're gaining more knowledge every day :
Scientists at The Scripps Research Institute have successfully converted an RNA enzyme (ribozyme) into a DNA enzyme (deoxyribozyme) through a process of accelerated in vitro evolution. The molecular conversion or transfer of both genetic information and catalytic function between these two different genetic systems, which are both based on nucleic acid-like molecules, is exactly what many scientists believe occurred during the very earliest period of earth's existence.
'Accelerated Evolution' Converts RNA Enzyme To DNA Enzyme In Vitro
And there are plenty of examples of transitional species, as already posted. There's also endless evidence to show that species on the earth today evolved from species that walked the earth millions of years ago. Here's the latest evidence, made public a few days ago :
In the first analysis of proteins extracted from dinosaur bones, scientists say they have established more firmly than ever that the closest living relatives of the mighty predator Tyrannosaurus rex are modern birds.
The research, being published Friday in the journal Science, yielded the first molecular data confirming the widely held hypothesis of a close dinosaur-bird ancestry, the American scientific team reported. The link was previously suggested by anatomical similarities.
In fact, the scientists said, T. rex shared more of its genetic makeup with ostriches and chickens than with living reptiles, like alligators. On this basis, the research team has redrawn the family tree of major vertebrate groups, assigning the dinosaur a new place in evolutionary relationships.
Similar molecular tests on tissues from the extinct mastodon confirmed its close genetic link to the elephant, as had been suspected from skeletal affinities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/sc...hp&oref=slogin
We also have DNA evidence showing evolution in a single species over short periods of time :
Using perfectly preserved, ancient DNA, scientists have demonstrated microevolution in a single species over a span of some 6,000 years. The researchers examined well-preserved bones of Adélie penguins (Pygoscelis adeliae) found in Antarctica and compared them to the birds' living descendants.
Ancient Penguin DNA Reveals Microevolution on Ice
Micro evolution is a fact. And it is the only type of evolution that is anything more than a theory or hypothesis. The problem is using it to prove MACRO took place.
In a court room proving that a person stole candy when they were little, doesn't prove they just robbed the bank down the street. It's not physical evidence. All the evidence presented is micro not macro.
Still let's focus on this...
The reproduction of a species sexually. How many generations would it have taken to master it? Was there some other way of reproducing in place for that species until it was replaced by sexual reproduction?
Did the female and male species have to evolve at the same time?
As for sexual reproduction, it developed while asexual reproduction was still going on in the same species, didn't just happen overnight. Eventually the evolved version of the species (through the benefits of natural selection allowed by sexual reproduction) took over, while some species like dandelions (and Lyle's ancestors) remained asexual.
And sexual evolution continues today. In a few thousand years' time man will evolve a penis that can suck itself. :)
So out of nothing came everything we know of, and that is completely explained by science???
Yeah and now who has the FAITH issue?
Xactly! I've meditated for nearly 30 years and over the years I've learned to detach myself from my thoughts and now when I meditate, I'm almost completely thoughtless and I just see a bright light surrounding me with subtle sound ringing in my mind and feeling exhilirated in a calm sort of way. I am connecting myself directly to the universal channel and seem to be quitely downloading all the informations I need because after that, I usually have all the information I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreI can only add one thing to that: Physical orientated thoughts are the only thing that gets in the way or blocks the energy or the information that comes down that pranic tube you are talking about; also blocks whats recorded in your dna.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
The more you only think one way the less you can except from all the ways.
Its like asking God who are you? show yourself to me now,why am I here?why do you allow all this? Why me? why this pain? whats right ?whats wrong?all the while you are only really trying to justify your own view point or where you chose to stand ,still telling your own storyline.
You cant hear when your still talking/you cant meditate while still thinking.
How can you expect to hear Universal answers when your still busy with your own story?
"Silence is golden" for many reasons.
There is truth in : "better somethings end than in their begining."
Ask with an empty cup ,not a full one or even a half full one.
Grasshopper;D
Space/matter
Its the space within ,the window openings and the door openings that make a building useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there,usefulness from what is not there.
See both sides :o except both sides.
Did you guys know that human mind, which works primarily through system of association, are only capable of calculating but they are not capable of thinking out an idea? Strange as it may seem but it's true. Did you notice all the great discoveries came in 'end' form as a theory first before they were later proven through calculations. It's always the idea first and then the proving. They get all the necessary ideas when they are connected to the channel - the secrets are all 'in the air,' so to speak. Have anyone here came up with an idea by thinking out hard? no, right? Idea comes when you're not really trying to think hard but when you're relaxed or engaged in relaxing activities and when your mind is free to contemplate or muse in a sort of daydreaming manner. That's when your mind opens up and is connecting to the channel, just as we meditators connect to the channel while we are thoroughly relaxed. All great discoveries have been made this way, like how Newton's gravitational theory came out 'whilst he was pensively meandering in a garden it came into his thought that the power of gravity...' Only after he came up with the idea (from where?) did the calculations follow. If you have any doubt, remember the '99% perspiration and 1% inspiration thing coming from the inventor-scientist par excellence himself, Thomas Edision. Consider the meaning of inspire:
Inspire: 1. to affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
- free dictionary.
'nuff said...
* * * * * * *
I have another important thing to share with you guys. I discovered that happiness is what is ultimately natural to us humans, particularly in our end form, the final form where we will be eventually led to. All the pains and difficulty we humans undergo in this world is just a part of a process to make us ready for our ultimate form - the way to happiness. I don't know why it was made this way but this is the way and maybe there is God after all and maybe He made it that way. I can only guess, though I personally believe so. It may seem strange to us, who grew up in this troubled world that our ultimate destination was meant to be a destination of happiness. I can't prove it here and you just got to take my word for it. But as soon as I have enough time, I'll put out all the secrets - the foremost are the 3 major secrets I've discovered while connecting to the channel - somewhere, perhaps in my own website or a dedicated blog. If and when I do that, I'll make sure I'll let you guys know about it, especially Andre who seems to be the only one here seriously on to these things...
Seems like you know nothing :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfanXactly! I've meditated for nearly 30 years and over the years I've learned to detach myself from my thoughts and now when I meditate, I'm almost completely thoughtless and I just see a bright light surrounding me with subtle sound ringing in my mind and feeling exhilirated in a calm sort of way. I am connecting myself directly to the universal channel and seem to be quitely downloading all the informations I need because after that, I usually have all the information I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreI can only add one thing to that: Physical orientated thoughts are the only thing that gets in the way or blocks the energy or the information that comes down that pranic tube you are talking about; also blocks whats recorded in your dna.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
The more you only think one way the less you can except from all the ways.
Its like asking God who are you? show yourself to me now,why am I here?why do you allow all this? Why me? why this pain? whats right ?whats wrong?all the while you are only really trying to justify your own view point or where you chose to stand ,still telling your own storyline.
You cant hear when your still talking/you cant meditate while still thinking.
How can you expect to hear Universal answers when your still busy with your own story?
"Silence is golden" for many reasons.
There is truth in : "better somethings end than in their begining."
Ask with an empty cup ,not a full one or even a half full one.
Grasshopper;D
Space/matter
Its the space within ,the window openings and the door openings that make a building useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there,usefulness from what is not there.
See both sides :o except both sides.
Did you guys know that human mind, which works primarily through system of association, are only capable of calculating but they are not capable of thinking out an idea? Strange as it may seem but it's true. Did you notice all the great discoveries came in 'end' form as a theory first before they were later proven through calculations. It's always the idea first and then the proving. They get all the necessary ideas when they are connected to the channel - the secrets are all 'in the air,' so to speak. Have anyone here came up with an idea by thinking out hard? no, right? Idea comes when you're not really trying to think hard but when you're relaxed or engaged in relaxing activities and when your mind is free to contemplate or muse in a sort of daydreaming manner. That's when your mind opens up and is connecting to the channel, just as we meditators connect to the channel while we are thoroughly relaxed. All great discoveries have been made this way, like how Newton's gravitational theory came out 'whilst he was pensively meandering in a garden it came into his thought that the power of gravity...' Only after he came up with the idea (from where?) did the calculations follow. If you have any doubt, remember the '99% perspiration and 1% inspiration thing coming from the inventor-scientist par excellence himself, Thomas Edision. Consider the meaning of inspire:
Inspire: 1. to affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
- free dictionary.
'nuff said...
* * * * * * *
I have another important thing to share with you guys. I discovered that happiness is what is ultimately natural to us humans, particularly in our end form, the final form where we will be eventually led to. All the pains and difficulty we humans undergo in this world is just a part of a process to make us ready for our ultimate form - the way to happiness. I don't know why it was made this way but this is the way and maybe there is God after all and maybe He made it that way. I can only guess, though I personally believe so. It may seem strange to us, who grew up in this troubled world that our ultimate destination was meant to be a destination of happiness. I can't prove it here and you just got to take my word for it. But as soon as I have enough time, I'll put out all the secrets - the foremost are the 3 major secrets I've discovered while connecting to the channel - somewhere, perhaps in my own website or a dedicated blog. If and when I do that, I'll make sure I'll let you guys know about it, especially Andre who seems to be the only one here seriously on to these things...
But don't worry.. gullible wannabes that believe they're special will buy anything.
Have you ever thought about a newsletter? Couple of pounds/dollars per month (sell it as the equivalent of buying a pint of beer ;)) will go down a storm. Fact.
Anybody who still has faith in fairy tales in the face of endless evidence to the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
All I am saying is there is a higher power than what humans know....but that's just my view
Thanks for your thought, Fenster. Nobody can convince someone who has pretty much made up his mind that this world is the end. I know why people like you feel that way but, good for you, I'm not in business of exposing people so I won't go into that. I've graduated from those petty human affairs long time ago. Let me try to convince people who have open mind - I have little hope for you Fenster since you read all I've written;D - that happiness is what we were meant for. Let me give you a hint, just a hint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
When you're ecstatically happy, did you notice that the whole world was with you, that you had the whole world in your hand, and away from your little self? On the contrary, look at people with big problems, those miserable folks (no offense). Did you notice that they were always into their little world, unconcerned about the world, unto their little mind? That's what I mean. Your little self is a world of misery, pain and frustration. But when you tune yourself to the world, to the universe, thru the channel, you experience happiness. That's where we will eventually be when our little self dies, that's probably how God made us to be. You probably have heard testimonies of those who had near-death experience. Didn't they talk of undescribable joy?
So Fenster, get yourself out of that grumpy little self and start facing the world - the world of happiness. Open yourself up to the world. If you do that, then me and you can have a drink and have a nice friendly chat. Luv ya, and I mean it.;)
My personal belifes are that time isnt lineal its circular.This is from observation of all of the molecules atoms etc of the Universe and the cycles here on Earth ,seasonal and the cycles or spirals within us,including evolutionary dna, nothing else.
The sun is the channel that all life forms as we know it have come through; (for the single minded amongst us " Not the one creating portion, but the link it has come THROUGH ").
Every bit of warmth you feel even the internal warmth you imit personally is from that original source. Love and light.
I can heal anything using mind, when minds come together as one ;as can all others if they intend it.
Feeling emotionally that something will happen is what makes it happen,both good and bad (if you choose to see difference that way.)
Strange fact: People quite often invent the same thing at the same time on differenet sides of the planet. My uncle invented a machine for swimming that some else did in the States at exactly the same time in the sixties.Happens all the time ,we are linked not only by what we require but what provides it as well.
Victums attract aggression and visa versa,those frequencies match exactly. Fear and anger are like mulch to each other.
Molecules change shapes to thoughts sent by emotions.
We are one; One who chose to form many, to go out on our seperate ways by our own original choice and many still choose to continue on that journey where as some have turned around to look back.
The ones that look opposite ways are still one; but only one of those groups can see both sides.
The ones that think or feel that they are eternally seperate from all others can continue to; but it isnt a lineal path its curved too,so they will come around or they will waver towards a false goal and find nothing.
People search for true love outside of themselves and find lust.
People who are scared of real love or the light,when it does shine on them either attack it or turn from it and head further back into their personal darker cave .
Some prefer the comfort of their physical stationary position and will fight for it. Whe they attack others over it they are attacking themselves and the hatred increases and they self diminish.
Others prefer to move.
Some unfortunatley choose to move in reverse against natural order and this has major consequencies that they are numb to for a while.
We are spirit and mind first and formeost. Physical things are always lost and cant be held onto.
If you gather the correct things that side with who you really are and hold them close to you ,you cannot lose anything.
IF you gather whats not of your original form and claim it as your own and try to hold onto what cant be held onto;at physical death you will feel that you have lost everything.
Give up the physcial fight for what you cant keep and another eye will gradually open to what is behind what you can 'only think' is real.
It is not unnatural to begin to want less.Total freedom is not a game or a mind set. Give yourself the space.
Hell you can look at religion in Israel, India, Africa, South America, and even the Native American religion and they developed similarly, very similar stories almost to the WORD...same subjects, same moral, same everything. All without real connections between the cultures as transportation was extremely limited when those stories were written. And you're telling me there's no divine intervention there???Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
As for your "victims attract aggression" I find that everyone has energy and people either feed off of or get drained by other people's energy. Talk to a person with a shitty attitude and it just emotionally takes it right out of you and then talk with a person who is happy all the time and it makes you feel better. Read The Celestine Prophecy
Same paintings in caves of half men half fish emerging from the sea in Africa and in Peru.
Same emblem on some known pryamids on opposite sides of world, another deep in Tibet under tonnes of ice that will arise again soon.
Talking of coincidence, about a week I wrote the above post, the local newspaper Manila Bulletin came with this daily devotional guide:Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
http://www.mb.com.ph/archive_pages.p...430123218.html
part of which quoted Genesis 1:2,
'...the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, bringing order out of chaos.'
This is exactly what I was trying to say there on that underlined section of that post. I wrote that without knowing anything about that Bible verse. Actually I've never been that religious and never read the Bible, the book itself I mean. All my religious activity is limited to reading religious article almost exclusively from that newspaper which I subscribe to. The daily guide only features the New Testament parts but the description sections sometimes quote from other parts of the Bible as shown in the link.
This is a good example of what I've been saying, that Bible shouldn't be taken literally. The description 'bringing order out of chaos' IMO means that nature as we see it now wouldn't have formed or evolved in such an intricately precise manner by just leaving it to nature or by some haphazard trial-and-error method as the evolutionalist would want us to believe, but instead must have formed by some guided force I talked about on the above post.
If you read the bible From Aramaic straight into English (the preceeding launguage to Hebrew or Greek) it makes alot more sence with its deeper meanings.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfanTalking of coincidence, about a week I wrote the above post, the local newspaper Manila Bulletin came with this daily devotional guide:Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
http://www.mb.com.ph/archive_pages.p...430123218.html
part of which quoted Genesis 1:2,
'...the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, bringing order out of chaos.'
This is exactly what I was trying to say there on that underlined section of that post. I wrote that without knowing anything about that Bible verse. Actually I've never been that religious and never read the Bible, the book itself I mean. All my religious activity is limited to reading religious article almost exclusively from that newspaper which I subscribe to. The daily guide only features the New Testament parts but the description sections sometimes quote from other parts of the Bible as shown in the link.
This is a good example of what I've been saying, that Bible shouldn't be taken literally. The description 'bringing order out of chaos' IMO means that nature as we see it now wouldn't have formed or evolved in such an intricately precise manner by just leaving it to nature or by some haphazard trial-and-error method as the evolutionalist would want us to believe, but instead must have formed by some guided force I talked about on the above post.
You have to know the immediate areas intimate history too if you are to try and take things literally.
"I shall come as a thief in the night" literally from the times means I shall be banging and crashing cymbols and swords with torches held high in the sky and you will hear me comming for a long time before my arrival.
That is how thieves used to come in the night through the desert in those times.
It has come through from Aramaic to Hebrew, Greek,latin,German into English. If you think 4 languages of translation cant change some things.... then Lyle has a massive Southern Bridge he wants to sell you.
Much of the original information on creation of Earth and its many different forms of humans and time structures was written in Summarian picture form and hiroglyphs prior to any sscript writing too.
Very interesting about different languages. I wish I had the time and the luxury to study them. I think the Revelations chapter would be an excellent one to study deeply because it is wrought with full of sybolism and I believe it is about the future. If anyone can interpret that correctly, I think we will know what's ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreIf you read the bible From Aramaic straight into English (the preceeding launguage to Hebrew or Greek) it makes alot more sence with its deeper meanings.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfanTalking of coincidence, about a week I wrote the above post, the local newspaper Manila Bulletin came with this daily devotional guide:Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
http://www.mb.com.ph/archive_pages.p...430123218.html
part of which quoted Genesis 1:2,
'...the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, bringing order out of chaos.'
This is exactly what I was trying to say there on that underlined section of that post. I wrote that without knowing anything about that Bible verse. Actually I've never been that religious and never read the Bible, the book itself I mean. All my religious activity is limited to reading religious article almost exclusively from that newspaper which I subscribe to. The daily guide only features the New Testament parts but the description sections sometimes quote from other parts of the Bible as shown in the link.
This is a good example of what I've been saying, that Bible shouldn't be taken literally. The description 'bringing order out of chaos' IMO means that nature as we see it now wouldn't have formed or evolved in such an intricately precise manner by just leaving it to nature or by some haphazard trial-and-error method as the evolutionalist would want us to believe, but instead must have formed by some guided force I talked about on the above post.
You have to know the immediate areas intimate history too if you are to try and take things literally.
"I shall come as a thief in the night" literally from the times means I shall be banging and crashing cymbols and swords with torches held high in the sky and you will hear me comming for a long time before my arrival.
That is how thieves used to come in the night through the desert in those times.
It has come through from Aramaic to Hebrew, Greek,latin,German into English. If you think 4 languages of translation cant change some things.... then Lyle has a massive Southern Bridge he wants to sell you.
Much of the original information on creation of Earth and its many different forms of humans and time structures was written in Summarian picture form and hiroglyphs prior to any sscript writing too.
This is an excellent thread, Andre; just wish I had more time. I'd be talking about your post yesterday, there at few blocks back, about cycles, waves etc., when I have time. I believe our world which is nothing more than an energy mass moves as a wave. Waves moves in cycles and that explains why certain things repeat themselves and why they come together. So there is no coincidence in this world, it's just a cycle.
I think the cycle is about to reverse and we are about head back and shake off all what we have humanly built this up to be. The universe is in a situation soon that will have us plummenting out of a very fast turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfanVery interesting about different languages. I wish I had the time and the luxury to study them. I think the Revelations chapter would be an excellent one to study deeply because it is wrought with full of sybolism and I believe it is about the future. If anyone can interpret that correctly, I think we will know what's ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreIf you read the bible From Aramaic straight into English (the preceeding launguage to Hebrew or Greek) it makes alot more sence with its deeper meanings.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacfan
You have to know the immediate areas intimate history too if you are to try and take things literally.
"I shall come as a thief in the night" literally from the times means I shall be banging and crashing cymbols and swords with torches held high in the sky and you will hear me comming for a long time before my arrival.
That is how thieves used to come in the night through the desert in those times.
It has come through from Aramaic to Hebrew, Greek,latin,German into English. If you think 4 languages of translation cant change some things.... then Lyle has a massive Southern Bridge he wants to sell you.
Much of the original information on creation of Earth and its many different forms of humans and time structures was written in Summarian picture form and hiroglyphs prior to any sscript writing too.
This is an excellent thread, Andre; just wish I had more time. I'd be talking about your post yesterday, there at few blocks back, about cycles, waves etc., when I have time. I believe our world which is nothing more than an energy mass moves as a wave. Waves moves in cycles and that explains why certain things repeat themselves and why they come together. So there is no coincidence in this world, it's just a cycle.
Its taken thousands of years on this slow arc to get to here and its been painful. Now we are in the tighter part of and end curve (THE quikening); After we will head back and it will be joyful. Watch for many mentally falling off on the tightest part of the curve though!
Aramaic Peshitta Bible Repository - Lamsa Bible, Peshitto, Eastern Christianity
Pan Fan the study has been done for you.
Andre I take offense to what you said about me wanting to sell a bridge to anyone...you need to look at Joseph Campbell! That's what I am talking about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-72CBTABHas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21vsD48tJLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmlBD3llrrk
You misinterpret what I mean and what I believe...seeing 'The Power of Myth' will fix what you have missed
As I've said, I believe this world is one big blob of pulsating energy and as such it pulsates in waveforms. According to physicists' view, the energy field in the world is either in waveforms or quantum forms (in packets of energy as against waves). They say that the world manifests both forms but there can be only one. So their goal is to unify the two forms in one unified field theory. But let me stick to waveform theory here. Somewhere in the Bible, there is a passage that says that it was God's word that created this world. What is a word? In spoken form it is just a vibration thru air, or a wave. Perhaps, Almighty God, who is infinitely more powerful and complex than anything is this world can utter his word which is equivalent to his will, and his word probably is not just a simple wave of air, which is a simple energy in itself, but naturally like him it must be an infinitely more powerful and complex wave of super-energy - one that sends out magnificent torrent of infinitely powerful waves pulsating in the formerly dark, stagnant and chaotic world of no order. A wave that once released unleases a self-perpetuating energy (fact which is supported by law of conservation of energy) that can only be stopped by God himself. As farfetched as it may seem, it is because we humans see things with our very, very limited minds, which is biased in favor of believing only things that can be observed by that very limited mind, which basically sees only those things needed for his survivor - which is infinitely more myopic than that of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Therefore, as a waveform, the world moves in certain cycles, like ripples, which can explain why many things in this world happen in cycles and why still other things happen together, like the seasons, the cycles of ages like the ice age on the macro level and cycles of life at the micro level. This explains why there are coincidences, which are not coincidences (or happenstances, or just by chance) in the true sense. To cite some examples, according to Chinese zodiac or feng-sui, things happen at 60-year cycles. Although I usually don't believe in these zodiac or astrological based forecasts as they are usually based on very limited factors (the world is much more complex than that), that 60-year cycle seems to have been fulfilled in the 9-11 tragedy, which happened almost exactly 60 years after Pearl Harbor attack! So naively, I was considering something magnificent might happen in Japan on 2005, 60th year after A-bomb. But fortunately nothing happened. Perhaps, it was because Japan had not been involved in any conflict ever since WWII and so there was no more cyclical pressure on it to again suffer the same type of tragedy. I believe that Japan has paid all it's centuries of karmic debts at Hiroshima - nation which has a history of wars after wars - and they became one of the most peace-loving society in the world. So there was no more need for Japan to pay for anything, unlike the US, where the hate of many people, rightly or wrongly, is directed at because of their involvement in world affairs, particularly thru military actions.
As I've said, as an energy entity, everything in this world has influence on others as they are all interconnected in a web of one pulsating energy field, and as I've said, the pulsation might have started by the infinite energy waves unleased by God himself, I believe one of the more significant influences one earth is that of human thought or emotions, which is itself created by chemical and electrical energies within our nerves and brains. I believe human emotions has a some influence especially on his immediate environment, but collectively, I believe it has a very strong influence on it's environment, particularly on earth. Perhaps, that's the reason why certain tragedies occur at certain places on earth, and since these collective emotional waves sends out ripples, they tend to repeat itself at certain frequencies depending on how much those ripples are amplified by the continuation of the same actions that led to those waves in the first place. (But these historical waves have a tendency to wane at certain times.) In the case of US, they have been involved in world affairs which forces them to take sides and incur the wrath of others, which again unleashes hate waves that magnifies the ripples of the waves of tragedy.
But I think this is all part of so-called birthpains which the world has to undergo before it's final purification, just like the case of Japan, where eventually we will all live in harmony and in joy. Far-fetched, right?
I can go on and on and on with all these things but unfortunately my limited time doesn't allow it. (I want to clear one thing though, I'm grateful to the US which is, IMO, definitely making this world a peaceful place for most of us, even though I must add that they sometimes overdo it. But I can excuse them for the simple fact that they are doing it almost single-handedly, while most of the world sit comfortably on that fruit or security provided by the US, so naturally we can't expect them to be perfect in all their operations. I wish that the world superpowers would come together and stop all form of injustice, like terrorism and massacres, like in Rwanda, around the world. I was wondering what will happen if the US said 'NO.' [Attention, best-seller novelists, here's a potentially good book for you: The Day When America Said No:rolleyes:.]
[Note: I've edited this post on May 8, as the original one was done in a bit of haste.]