Will the stock market hold...or is the bubble ready to burst?

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Clubber

How do you even go about buying stock? Do you have to talk to your banker? Or what?

And is there a certain amount of money you have to invest, or can you invest just enough so that if it goes wrong, you're not really losing that much?

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Clubber, there are lot's of ways to invest in stocks, even just thru the internet. But you don't just go in there and buy them without knowing much about them. First thing first. First, you have to learn about investing in stocks. You can do that by reading some books about them or even studying some infos about them on the net.

During normal times, what people who don't know much about stocks do is to find a reputable and reliable mutual funds company and let them invest your money - they have all the expertise to do that for you. But for now, since it's not normal times these day, the best thing to do is to put your money in the bank - I'm pretty sure they're guaranteed so it's safe there...

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That's what I did. I followed the advice I was given when all I really wanted to do was keep it in the bank. :-\

I wouldn't feel so bad if it was my own money, but it was the cash I got from my mom's life insurance for my education, so I find it particularly hard to deal with atm. I'm thinking of pulling what's left out of the funds and sticking it in the bank...

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Check out if the fund is in any kind of trouble, and then you can decide what's best for you. Having said that, I'd still say the bank is the safest bet for now.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by CFH

Hmmm, maybe the guy who stands at the intersection to my university holding signs is right... Maybe the global financial crisis IS all part of the devils plan to institute a new world order by 2013.

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:oHmmm... that's really something to think about, CFH...

...actually, I'd sort of seen it coming but I don't want to start an ugly religious discussion so I'll keep it to myself:-X...

;)

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I actually kind of admire that crazy bastard in a way (the dude with the signs, not the devil), it takes a lot of guts to do what he's doing, even if he comes across as a total nut.

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I know what you mean. There are some guys or gals, despite their queerness - or because of their queerness - are fun to be with. I bet Bill Gates would make an interesting chummy, and I'm not even thinking about his zillions.;D;)

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by pacfan

Clubber, there are lot's of ways to invest in stocks, even just thru the internet. But you don't just go in there and buy them without knowing much about them. First thing first. First, you have to learn about investing in stocks. You can do that by reading some books about them or even studying some infos about them on the net.

During normal times, what people who don't know much about stocks do is to find a reputable and reliable mutual funds company and let them invest your money - they have all the expertise to do that for you. But for now, since it's not normal times these day, the best thing to do is to put your money in the bank - I'm pretty sure they're guaranteed so it's safe there...

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That's what I did. I followed the advice I was given when all I really wanted to do was keep it in the bank. :-\

I wouldn't feel so bad if it was my own money, but it was the cash I got from my mom's life insurance for my education, so I find it particularly hard to deal with atm. I'm thinking of pulling what's left out of the funds and sticking it in the bank...

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Check out if the fund is in any kind of trouble, and then you can decide what's best for you. Having said that, I'd still say the bank is the safest bet for now.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by pacfan

:oHmmm... that's really something to think about, CFH...

...actually, I'd sort of seen it coming but I don't want to start an ugly religious discussion so I'll keep it to myself:-X...

;)

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I actually kind of admire that crazy bastard in a way (the dude with the signs, not the devil), it takes a lot of guts to do what he's doing, even if he comes across as a total nut.

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I know what you mean. There are some guys or gals, despite their queerness - or because of their queerness - are fun to be with. I bet Bill Gates would make an interesting chummy, and I'm not even thinking about his zillions.;D;)

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Yeah, I don't know if I'd want to have a conversation with the dude with the signs, especially not in private, but he's definitely an interesting dude. He stands there for hours wearing a sandwich board sign and holding two other signs with wooden handles which he rotates around b/c they have things written on the front and the back. All about the end of the world, and the illuminati, and how this crises is the devils plan etc...

And so it came to pass that hours after The Infallible One announced the Kirkland Laing Global Financial System Rescue Plan would be adopted by global leaders within a few days, U.S. Treasury chief Hank Paulson held a press conference and announced that he was implementing the KLGFSRP and details would be announced "in a few days" and European and other world leaders followed over the weekend.

And lo! The Dow has gone up 1000 points and it looks like credit markets are starting to thaw. If they continue to unfreeze it will be no exaggeration to claim that Kirkland Laing, The Infallible One, has single-handedly saved the world from global economic collapse. But you just know people like Bush, Bernanke, Paulson, Gordon Brown and other world leaders will claim the credit. Those arrogant bastards.

How come these stupid rallies always happen right before I'm ready to buy more securities :eek:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

How come these stupid rallies always happen right before I'm ready to buy more securities :eek:

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You must have the miles touch!! ;D:cool:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

And so it came to pass that hours after The Infallible One announced the Kirkland Laing Global Financial System Rescue Plan would be adopted by global leaders within a few days, U.S. Treasury chief Hank Paulson held a press conference and announced that he was implementing the KLGFSRP and details would be announced "in a few days" and European and other world leaders followed over the weekend.

And lo! The Dow has gone up 1000 points and it looks like credit markets are starting to thaw. If they continue to unfreeze it will be no exaggeration to claim that Kirkland Laing, The Infallible One, has single-handedly saved the world from global economic collapse. But you just know people like Bush, Bernanke, Paulson, Gordon Brown and other world leaders will claim the credit. Those arrogant bastards.

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Would, by any chance, an acknowledgement and a citation from a poor fisherman mean anything to you?;D;)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

How come these stupid rallies always happen right before I'm ready to buy more securities :eek:

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That's because you're keeping your eyes, and picking the odds, on boxers. Just keep your eyes on the stocks and you'll be fine.;D;)

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by killersheep

How come these stupid rallies always happen right before I'm ready to buy more securities :eek:

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That's because you're keeping your eyes, and picking the odds, on boxers. Just keep your eyes on the stocks and you'll be fine.;D;)

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I'm doin fine right now, I just don't have the futureman timing.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by killersheep

How come these stupid rallies always happen right before I'm ready to buy more securities :eek:

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You must have the miles touch!! ;D:cool:

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Touche my good friend. Speakin of which, are you gonna jump in on the book again?

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

And so it came to pass that hours after The Infallible One announced the Kirkland Laing Global Financial System Rescue Plan would be adopted by global leaders within a few days, U.S. Treasury chief Hank Paulson held a press conference and announced that he was implementing the KLGFSRP and details would be announced "in a few days" and European and other world leaders followed over the weekend.

And lo! The Dow has gone up 1000 points and it looks like credit markets are starting to thaw. If they continue to unfreeze it will be no exaggeration to claim that Kirkland Laing, The Infallible One, has single-handedly saved the world from global economic collapse. But you just know people like Bush, Bernanke, Paulson, Gordon Brown and other world leaders will claim the credit. Those arrogant bastards.

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Would, by any chance, an acknowledgement and a citation from a poor fisherman mean anything to you?;D;)

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It means more than any praise from the arrogant Bush or Bernanke. :)

I've been inundated with emails from the SEC and the British equivalent telling me exactly what I can and can't say in public, public forums etc. Both organisations are expecting a massive public backlash against the financial industry after this crisis (KLGFSRP willing) settles down and bankers will make lawyers and estate agents look popular when people see what we've wrought. But it turns out I now know exactly what I can say re. investments. I can definitely tell you not to invest in something, so right now I'd say not to invest in any kind of paper or equities, stocks etc. There's going to be an unpleasant recession and they're kryptonite to stock markets. We could easily see Dow 7000 this time next year. Long term if you've taken a haircut on your stocks over the past year hang onto them as in three or four years they'll return to their previous value.

We're not out of the woods yet though. There's lots of things could go wrong. There could easily be another Iceland before the end of the year. The new Iceland could even be England. There's massive banking debt everywhere and Britain is basically a massive bank. A third of the UK economy is financial services and all the dodgy/risky stuff got booted out of the US by Clinton and moved to London (which is why I'm not working in the States anymore.) An example. Banks used to work on a 10:1 debt to assets ration. If you walked into the bank and deposited £1. They'd keep the pound in the safe and lend ten pounds out on the strength of it. That was considered a safe capital reserve. Barclays bank, Britain's biggest, has a 57:1 ratio and owns over three trillion pounds' worth of things called Credit Default Swaps, which are insurance on various kinds of securities, including the very kind of securities that are causing the current crisis. To put that in perspective UK GDP is less than thst. And nobody outside the bank knows how much they owe because there's no oversight or regulation of the global CDS market. And the global CDS market is worth $60 trillion. To put that in perspective the US stock market is worth about $11 trillion.


And a bank like that somewhere going bust and taking a country down with it like Iceland already (hopefully not the US or things will get really bad) is just one of the problems we might see in the next year or so.

And we've also got the possibility of hundreds of hedge funds going bust and triggering CDS carnage on the world, lots of big insurance companies in trouble, the ongoing process of asset selling by banks to deleverage that's forcing all asset prices down (which makes their :1 all the more worthless) and could turninto a cascade, and of course house prices still falling which would make all those bad securities even more worthless.

Governments are going to have to start a lot of spending on public works to stimulate the economy too or a nasty multiyear recession (which we're guaranteed) will turn into a deacade-long slump. There's no point in the KLGFSRP being successful as a slumping real economy will just make the banks go bust all over again and then this cunting crisis would last years on and off. I've had enough already.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

And so it came to pass that hours after The Infallible One announced the Kirkland Laing Global Financial System Rescue Plan would be adopted by global leaders within a few days, U.S. Treasury chief Hank Paulson held a press conference and announced that he was implementing the KLGFSRP and details would be announced "in a few days" and European and other world leaders followed over the weekend.

And lo! The Dow has gone up 1000 points and it looks like credit markets are starting to thaw. If they continue to unfreeze it will be no exaggeration to claim that Kirkland Laing, The Infallible One, has single-handedly saved the world from global economic collapse. But you just know people like Bush, Bernanke, Paulson, Gordon Brown and other world leaders will claim the credit. Those arrogant bastards.

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Would, by any chance, an acknowledgement and a citation from a poor fisherman mean anything to you?;D;)

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It means more than any praise from the arrogant Bush or Bernanke. :)

I've been inundated with emails from the SEC and the British equivalent telling me exactly what I can and can't say in public, public forums etc. Both organisations are expecting a massive public backlash against the financial industry after this crisis (KLGFSRP willing) settles down and bankers will make lawyers and estate agents look popular when people see what we've wrought. But it turns out I now know exactly what I can say re. investments. I can definitely tell you not to invest in something, so right now I'd say not to invest in any kind of paper or equities, stocks etc. There's going to be an unpleasant recession and they're kryptonite to stock markets. We could easily see Dow 7000 this time next year. Long term if you've taken a haircut on your stocks over the past year hang onto them as in three or four years they'll return to their previous value.

We're not out of the woods yet though. There's lots of things could go wrong. There could easily be another Iceland before the end of the year. The new Iceland could even be England. There's massive banking debt everywhere and Britain is basically a massive bank. A third of the UK economy is financial services and all the dodgy/risky stuff got booted out of the US by Clinton and moved to London (which is why I'm not working in the States anymore.) An example. Banks used to work on a 10:1 debt to assets ration. If you walked into the bank and deposited £1. They'd keep the pound in the safe and lend ten pounds out on the strength of it. That was considered a safe capital reserve. Barclays bank, Britain's biggest, has a 57:1 ratio and owns over three trillion pounds' worth of things called Credit Default Swaps, which are insurance on various kinds of securities, including the very kind of securities that are causing the current crisis. To put that in perspective UK GDP is less than thst. And nobody outside the bank knows how much they owe because there's no oversight or regulation of the global CDS market. And the global CDS market is worth $60 trillion. To put that in perspective the US stock market is worth about $11 trillion.


And a bank like that somewhere going bust and taking a country down with it like Iceland already (hopefully not the US or things will get really bad) is just one of the problems we might see in the next year or so.

And we've also got the possibility of hundreds of hedge funds going bust and triggering CDS carnage on the world, lots of big insurance companies in trouble, the ongoing process of asset selling by banks to deleverage that's forcing all asset prices down (which makes their :1 all the more worthless) and could turninto a cascade, and of course house prices still falling which would make all those bad securities even more worthless.

Governments are going to have to start a lot of spending on public works to stimulate the economy too or a nasty multiyear recession (which we're guaranteed) will turn into a deacade-long slump. There's no point in the KLGFSRP being successful as a slumping real economy will just make the banks go bust all over again and then this cunting crisis would last years on and off. I've had enough already.

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This is precisely why I'm trying to learn how to grow vegetables, I believe that I have enough land to grow enough food for me and the missus to live off of for quite some time. At the rate I'm going currently though, 10 tomatoes a year will be hard to ration. I don't see why you wouldn't want people to invest now, not in short term things, but investing for the long term (more than 10 years). From what I understand (keep in mind I'm a simpleton) the issue is that there is not enough capital in the system. I would think that in addition to the government's contribution, that long term investment in the financial sector should be encouraged. I am very leary of government control of America's financial sector, even though the intention right now is to sell it back to the public, a new administration is coming soon and everything could change. Let capitalism bail itself out, if the government needs to be involved, they could offer a tax incentive program for those willing to invest in these ailing companies, I know more than a few millionaires that would jump at the opportunity to shelter more funds.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by pacfan

Would, by any chance, an acknowledgement and a citation from a poor fisherman mean anything to you?;D;)

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It means more than any praise from the arrogant Bush or Bernanke. :)

I've been inundated with emails from the SEC and the British equivalent telling me exactly what I can and can't say in public, public forums etc. Both organisations are expecting a massive public backlash against the financial industry after this crisis (KLGFSRP willing) settles down and bankers will make lawyers and estate agents look popular when people see what we've wrought. But it turns out I now know exactly what I can say re. investments. I can definitely tell you not to invest in something, so right now I'd say not to invest in any kind of paper or equities, stocks etc. There's going to be an unpleasant recession and they're kryptonite to stock markets. We could easily see Dow 7000 this time next year. Long term if you've taken a haircut on your stocks over the past year hang onto them as in three or four years they'll return to their previous value.

We're not out of the woods yet though. There's lots of things could go wrong. There could easily be another Iceland before the end of the year. The new Iceland could even be England. There's massive banking debt everywhere and Britain is basically a massive bank. A third of the UK economy is financial services and all the dodgy/risky stuff got booted out of the US by Clinton and moved to London (which is why I'm not working in the States anymore.) An example. Banks used to work on a 10:1 debt to assets ration. If you walked into the bank and deposited £1. They'd keep the pound in the safe and lend ten pounds out on the strength of it. That was considered a safe capital reserve. Barclays bank, Britain's biggest, has a 57:1 ratio and owns over three trillion pounds' worth of things called Credit Default Swaps, which are insurance on various kinds of securities, including the very kind of securities that are causing the current crisis. To put that in perspective UK GDP is less than thst. And nobody outside the bank knows how much they owe because there's no oversight or regulation of the global CDS market. And the global CDS market is worth $60 trillion. To put that in perspective the US stock market is worth about $11 trillion.


And a bank like that somewhere going bust and taking a country down with it like Iceland already (hopefully not the US or things will get really bad) is just one of the problems we might see in the next year or so.

And we've also got the possibility of hundreds of hedge funds going bust and triggering CDS carnage on the world, lots of big insurance companies in trouble, the ongoing process of asset selling by banks to deleverage that's forcing all asset prices down (which makes their :1 all the more worthless) and could turninto a cascade, and of course house prices still falling which would make all those bad securities even more worthless.

Governments are going to have to start a lot of spending on public works to stimulate the economy too or a nasty multiyear recession (which we're guaranteed) will turn into a deacade-long slump. There's no point in the KLGFSRP being successful as a slumping real economy will just make the banks go bust all over again and then this cunting crisis would last years on and off. I've had enough already.

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This is precisely why I'm trying to learn how to grow vegetables, I believe that I have enough land to grow enough food for me and the missus to live off of for quite some time. At the rate I'm going currently though, 10 tomatoes a year will be hard to ration. I don't see why you wouldn't want people to invest now, not in short term things, but investing for the long term (more than 10 years). From what I understand (keep in mind I'm a simpleton) the issue is that there is not enough capital in the system. I would think that in addition to the government's contribution, that long term investment in the financial sector should be encouraged. I am very leary of government control of America's financial sector, even though the intention right now is to sell it back to the public, a new administration is coming soon and everything could change. Let capitalism bail itself out, if the government needs to be involved, they could offer a tax incentive program for those willing to invest in these ailing companies, I know more than a few millionaires that would jump at the opportunity to shelter more funds.

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They let capitalism bail itself out in 1929 and it caused the Great Depression. Capitalism isn't capable of bailing itself out without government involvement, QED. If the governments hadn't got involved at all there'd already have been over a million people laid off and millions more to come and a ten year plus Depression to face. Hopefully the banks can be weaned off government support in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. We may yet see total government ownership of the global financial system.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

It means more than any praise from the arrogant Bush or Bernanke. :)

I've been inundated with emails from the SEC and the British equivalent telling me exactly what I can and can't say in public, public forums etc. Both organisations are expecting a massive public backlash against the financial industry after this crisis (KLGFSRP willing) settles down and bankers will make lawyers and estate agents look popular when people see what we've wrought. But it turns out I now know exactly what I can say re. investments. I can definitely tell you not to invest in something, so right now I'd say not to invest in any kind of paper or equities, stocks etc. There's going to be an unpleasant recession and they're kryptonite to stock markets. We could easily see Dow 7000 this time next year. Long term if you've taken a haircut on your stocks over the past year hang onto them as in three or four years they'll return to their previous value.

We're not out of the woods yet though. There's lots of things could go wrong. There could easily be another Iceland before the end of the year. The new Iceland could even be England. There's massive banking debt everywhere and Britain is basically a massive bank. A third of the UK economy is financial services and all the dodgy/risky stuff got booted out of the US by Clinton and moved to London (which is why I'm not working in the States anymore.) An example. Banks used to work on a 10:1 debt to assets ration. If you walked into the bank and deposited £1. They'd keep the pound in the safe and lend ten pounds out on the strength of it. That was considered a safe capital reserve. Barclays bank, Britain's biggest, has a 57:1 ratio and owns over three trillion pounds' worth of things called Credit Default Swaps, which are insurance on various kinds of securities, including the very kind of securities that are causing the current crisis. To put that in perspective UK GDP is less than thst. And nobody outside the bank knows how much they owe because there's no oversight or regulation of the global CDS market. And the global CDS market is worth $60 trillion. To put that in perspective the US stock market is worth about $11 trillion.


And a bank like that somewhere going bust and taking a country down with it like Iceland already (hopefully not the US or things will get really bad) is just one of the problems we might see in the next year or so.

And we've also got the possibility of hundreds of hedge funds going bust and triggering CDS carnage on the world, lots of big insurance companies in trouble, the ongoing process of asset selling by banks to deleverage that's forcing all asset prices down (which makes their :1 all the more worthless) and could turninto a cascade, and of course house prices still falling which would make all those bad securities even more worthless.

Governments are going to have to start a lot of spending on public works to stimulate the economy too or a nasty multiyear recession (which we're guaranteed) will turn into a deacade-long slump. There's no point in the KLGFSRP being successful as a slumping real economy will just make the banks go bust all over again and then this cunting crisis would last years on and off. I've had enough already.

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This is precisely why I'm trying to learn how to grow vegetables, I believe that I have enough land to grow enough food for me and the missus to live off of for quite some time. At the rate I'm going currently though, 10 tomatoes a year will be hard to ration. I don't see why you wouldn't want people to invest now, not in short term things, but investing for the long term (more than 10 years). From what I understand (keep in mind I'm a simpleton) the issue is that there is not enough capital in the system. I would think that in addition to the government's contribution, that long term investment in the financial sector should be encouraged. I am very leary of government control of America's financial sector, even though the intention right now is to sell it back to the public, a new administration is coming soon and everything could change. Let capitalism bail itself out, if the government needs to be involved, they could offer a tax incentive program for those willing to invest in these ailing companies, I know more than a few millionaires that would jump at the opportunity to shelter more funds.

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They let capitalism bail itself out in 1929 and it caused the Great Depression. Capitalism isn't capable of bailing itself out without government involvement, QED. If the governments hadn't got involved at all there'd already have been over a million people laid off and millions more to come and a ten year plus Depression to face. Hopefully the banks can be weaned off government support in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. We may yet see total government ownership of the global financial system.

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I officially fear the NWO. I have many questions as to how this bail out works still, for example if I as an American tax payer will be getting prefered stock in the companies that are bailed out, how are dividends going to work? Why don't I have a say in that? What is being done to pay down the national debt? Why isn't the American public being told to reduce debt, and live within their means? Wouldn't you say that an equal part of the equation is that people borrow beyond what they are able to pay? In my estimation government could play a greater roll in not allowing loans that are unlikely to be paid back. If we simply pump more money into the system and eventually get back to where we were 5 years ago we will be heading back to the same place.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by killersheep

This is precisely why I'm trying to learn how to grow vegetables, I believe that I have enough land to grow enough food for me and the missus to live off of for quite some time. At the rate I'm going currently though, 10 tomatoes a year will be hard to ration. I don't see why you wouldn't want people to invest now, not in short term things, but investing for the long term (more than 10 years). From what I understand (keep in mind I'm a simpleton) the issue is that there is not enough capital in the system. I would think that in addition to the government's contribution, that long term investment in the financial sector should be encouraged. I am very leary of government control of America's financial sector, even though the intention right now is to sell it back to the public, a new administration is coming soon and everything could change. Let capitalism bail itself out, if the government needs to be involved, they could offer a tax incentive program for those willing to invest in these ailing companies, I know more than a few millionaires that would jump at the opportunity to shelter more funds.

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They let capitalism bail itself out in 1929 and it caused the Great Depression. Capitalism isn't capable of bailing itself out without government involvement, QED. If the governments hadn't got involved at all there'd already have been over a million people laid off and millions more to come and a ten year plus Depression to face. Hopefully the banks can be weaned off government support in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. We may yet see total government ownership of the global financial system.

---

I officially fear the NWO. I have many questions as to how this bail out works still, for example if I as an American tax payer will be getting prefered stock in the companies that are bailed out, how are dividends going to work? Why don't I have a say in that? What is being done to pay down the national debt? Why isn't the American public being told to reduce debt, and live within their means? Wouldn't you say that an equal part of the equation is that people borrow beyond what they are able to pay? In my estimation government could play a greater roll in not allowing loans that are unlikely to be paid back. If we simply pump more money into the system and eventually get back to where we were 5 years ago we will be heading back to the same place.

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There'll have to be a big conference after the worst of this is over and governments will forge a new global economic structure to prevent this from happening again. Lots of regulation and oversight. So the NWO will look a lot better than the OWO.

Forget about getting your money back, you've just started paying for all this. It's going to cost trillions.

Forget about paying the national debt down anytime soon either.

71% of US GDP is consumer spending so nobody wants the US consumer to stop or the economy will tank. We can worry about how much debt they owe when the current crisis is over although we'll probably have problems there too.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

And so it came to pass that hours after The Infallible One announced the Kirkland Laing Global Financial System Rescue Plan would be adopted by global leaders within a few days, U.S. Treasury chief Hank Paulson held a press conference and announced that he was implementing the KLGFSRP and details would be announced "in a few days" and European and other world leaders followed over the weekend.

And lo! The Dow has gone up 1000 points and it looks like credit markets are starting to thaw. If they continue to unfreeze it will be no exaggeration to claim that Kirkland Laing, The Infallible One, has single-handedly saved the world from global economic collapse. But you just know people like Bush, Bernanke, Paulson, Gordon Brown and other world leaders will claim the credit. Those arrogant bastards.

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Would, by any chance, an acknowledgement and a citation from a poor fisherman mean anything to you?;D;)

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It means more than any praise from the arrogant Bush or Bernanke. :)

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I gathered around some of our fishermen folks here to give you your due recognition and respect for your invaluable economic insight that the Whitehouse is so desperately trying to ignore:
:allhail:

...this of course comes with a special citation for which I have assigned Lyle to read and present to you. Okay, come on out here Lyle, whereever you are... ...just leave your gun at home...

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They let capitalism bail itself out in 1929 and it caused the Great Depression. Capitalism isn't capable of bailing itself out without government involvement, QED. If the governments hadn't got involved at all there'd already have been over a million people laid off and millions more to come and a ten year plus Depression to face. Hopefully the banks can be weaned off government support in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. We may yet see total government ownership of the global financial system.

---

I officially fear the NWO. I have many questions as to how this bail out works still, for example if I as an American tax payer will be getting prefered stock in the companies that are bailed out, how are dividends going to work? Why don't I have a say in that? What is being done to pay down the national debt? Why isn't the American public being told to reduce debt, and live within their means? Wouldn't you say that an equal part of the equation is that people borrow beyond what they are able to pay? In my estimation government could play a greater roll in not allowing loans that are unlikely to be paid back. If we simply pump more money into the system and eventually get back to where we were 5 years ago we will be heading back to the same place.

---

There'll have to be a big conference after the worst of this is over and governments will forge a new global economic structure to prevent this from happening again. Lots of regulation and oversight. So the NWO will look a lot better than the OWO.

Forget about getting your money back, you've just started paying for all this. It's going to cost trillions.

Forget about paying the national debt down anytime soon either.

71% of US GDP is consumer spending so nobody wants the US consumer to stop or the economy will tank. We can worry about how much debt they owe when the current crisis is over although we'll probably have problems there too.

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I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I've been inundated with emails from the SEC and the British equivalent telling me exactly what I can and can't say in public, public forums etc. Both organisations are expecting a massive public backlash against the financial industry after this crisis (KLGFSRP willing) settles down and bankers will make lawyers and estate agents look popular when people see what we've wrought. But it turns out I now know exactly what I can say re. investments. I can definitely tell you not to invest in something, so right now I'd say not to invest in any kind of paper or equities, stocks etc. There's going to be an unpleasant recession and they're kryptonite to stock markets. We could easily see Dow 7000 this time next year. Long term if you've taken a haircut on your stocks over the past year hang onto them as in three or four years they'll return to their previous value.

We're not out of the woods yet though. There's lots of things could go wrong. There could easily be another Iceland before the end of the year. The new Iceland could even be England. There's massive banking debt everywhere and Britain is basically a massive bank. A third of the UK economy is financial services and all the dodgy/risky stuff got booted out of the US by Clinton and moved to London (which is why I'm not working in the States anymore.) An example. Banks used to work on a 10:1 debt to assets ration. If you walked into the bank and deposited £1. They'd keep the pound in the safe and lend ten pounds out on the strength of it. That was considered a safe capital reserve. Barclays bank, Britain's biggest, has a 57:1 ratio and owns over three trillion pounds' worth of things called Credit Default Swaps, which are insurance on various kinds of securities, including the very kind of securities that are causing the current crisis. To put that in perspective UK GDP is less than thst. And nobody outside the bank knows how much they owe because there's no oversight or regulation of the global CDS market. And the global CDS market is worth $60 trillion. To put that in perspective the US stock market is worth about $11 trillion.


And a bank like that somewhere going bust and taking a country down with it like Iceland already (hopefully not the US or things will get really bad) is just one of the problems we might see in the next year or so.

And we've also got the possibility of hundreds of hedge funds going bust and triggering CDS carnage on the world, lots of big insurance companies in trouble, the ongoing process of asset selling by banks to deleverage that's forcing all asset prices down (which makes their :1 all the more worthless) and could turninto a cascade, and of course house prices still falling which would make all those bad securities even more worthless.

Governments are going to have to start a lot of spending on public works to stimulate the economy too or a nasty multiyear recession (which we're guaranteed) will turn into a deacade-long slump. There's no point in the KLGFSRP being successful as a slumping real economy will just make the banks go bust all over again and then this cunting crisis would last years on and off. I've had enough already.

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I'm glad you're back unto your old self again, Kirk. I need a gloomy guy here to balance things out a bit. I was worried that you might have become a bit more optimistic when the plan of bank nationalization was anounced because that would have spoiled things a bit here.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I officially fear the NWO. I have many questions as to how this bail out works still, for example if I as an American tax payer will be getting prefered stock in the companies that are bailed out, how are dividends going to work? Why don't I have a say in that? What is being done to pay down the national debt? Why isn't the American public being told to reduce debt, and live within their means? Wouldn't you say that an equal part of the equation is that people borrow beyond what they are able to pay? In my estimation government could play a greater roll in not allowing loans that are unlikely to be paid back. If we simply pump more money into the system and eventually get back to where we were 5 years ago we will be heading back to the same place.

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There'll have to be a big conference after the worst of this is over and governments will forge a new global economic structure to prevent this from happening again. Lots of regulation and oversight. So the NWO will look a lot better than the OWO.

Forget about getting your money back, you've just started paying for all this. It's going to cost trillions.

Forget about paying the national debt down anytime soon either.

71% of US GDP is consumer spending so nobody wants the US consumer to stop or the economy will tank. We can worry about how much debt they owe when the current crisis is over although we'll probably have problems there too.

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I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

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National debt would be a big problem after this mess because most of the bailout funds, which will easily run into trillions when it's done with, will be financed through it. What worries me most is that if, that's a big if, things gets really bad, the US will be forced to beg for funds from the dollar treasure trove of China, Japan and other countries, which will dramatically alter the financial balance of power of the world. This could be the unexpected part of the NWO. Another problem will be that US might be forced to leave Iraq prematurely, leaving it into a chaos, due of lack of funds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

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The bank equity purchases are going to pay 5% dividends but really it's just Kabuki theatre. The end net effect is transferring trillions of government dollars to the financial system. That you'll get a couple of percent of it back is irrelevant in the great scheme of things, isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

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The bank equity purchases are going to pay 5% dividends but really it's just Kabuki theatre. The end net effect is transferring trillions of government dollars to the financial system. That you'll get a couple of percent of it back is irrelevant in the great scheme of things, isn't it?

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every little bit helps, In my estimation thinking long term, getting the national debt should be a definate priority, number two in fact to short term stabilization.

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Originally Posted by pacfan

National debt would be a big problem after this mess because most of the bailout funds, which will easily run into trillions when it's done with, will be financed through it. What worries me most is that if, that's a big if, things gets really bad, the US will be forced to beg for funds from the dollar treasure trove of China, Japan and other countries, which will dramatically alter the financial balance of power of the world. This could be the unexpected part of the NWO. Another problem will be that US might be forced to leave Iraq prematurely, leaving it into a chaos, due of lack of funds.

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The US has already been borrowing three billion dollars a day from mainly Asia for well over half a decade now. China is already America's reserve banker. The balance of power is already altered. The US national debt stands no chance of being paid down for some considerable time. Iraq is already chaos. An ungrateful volcano.


And I'm not gloomy, just realistic. Remember six months ago when I realistically told you the world was headed for financial meltdown and you told me I was being gloomy? Not gloomy, realistic. And Infallible of course. Over the past year and a half, the greatest crisis of my and other generations, I've been right to the point of Infallibility over what's going to happen, from predicting before the first signs of the crisis that subprime debt would tip the whole massively-levered applecart over up to predicting a few days ago the nationalisation programme. It's not a good idea to bet against me right now. :)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

---

The bank equity purchases are going to pay 5% dividends but really it's just Kabuki theatre. The end net effect is transferring trillions of government dollars to the financial system. That you'll get a couple of percent of it back is irrelevant in the great scheme of things, isn't it?

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every little bit helps, In my estimation thinking long term, getting the national debt should be a definate priority, number two in fact to short term stabilization.

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Right now the prioirty is saving the world from economic meltdown, then setting a global regulatory system to prevent it happening again, then getting the US to save more, produce more and import less thus getting the balance of payments situation on a manageable long-term curve. After that maybe you can worry about the national debt. In relation to other countries it isn't that bad at all. It's 62ish% of GDP. Europe is 75-80%, Japan is 120%.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess what I should say is that I would want for any dividends received from the preferred stock to go directly into paying the national debt down.

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The bank equity purchases are going to pay 5% dividends but really it's just Kabuki theatre. The end net effect is transferring trillions of government dollars to the financial system. That you'll get a couple of percent of it back is irrelevant in the great scheme of things, isn't it?

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Did they try to fool us with the dividend thing? Geez, that's pathetic cuz with the interest paid on the treasury notes, I wonder what will be left of the profit during this time of crisis. We would be lucky if they can even earn a pre-interest expense profit.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacfan

National debt would be a big problem after this mess because most of the bailout funds, which will easily run into trillions when it's done with, will be financed through it. What worries me most is that if, that's a big if, things gets really bad, the US will be forced to beg for funds from the dollar treasure trove of China, Japan and other countries, which will dramatically alter the financial balance of power of the world. This could be the unexpected part of the NWO. Another problem will be that US might be forced to leave Iraq prematurely, leaving it into a chaos, due of lack of funds.

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The US has already been borrowing three billion dollars a day from mainly Asia for well over half a decade now. China is already America's reserve banker. The balance of power is already altered. The US national debt stands no chance of being paid down for some considerable time. Iraq is already chaos. An ungrateful volcano.


And I'm not gloomy, just realistic. Remember six months ago when I realistically told you the world was headed for financial meltdown and you told me I was being gloomy? Not gloomy, realistic. And Infallible of course. Over the past year and a half, the greatest crisis of my and other generations, I've been right to the point of Infallibility over what's going to happen, from predicting before the first signs of the crisis that subprime debt would tip the whole massively-levered applecart over up to predicting a few days ago the nationalisation programme. It's not a good idea to bet against me right now. :)

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Yup, the Asians have been gobbling up the US debt notes, but not yet enough to be held hostage by them. But if this crisis goes really bad, then the US might be at the mercy of them. Imagine China dictating to them what to do. Or am I imaginining things here?

Nope, I never bet against anyone who's infallible...
...certainly not against anyone who claims to be one - that's like jumping in a deep blue sea.;)

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacfan

National debt would be a big problem after this mess because most of the bailout funds, which will easily run into trillions when it's done with, will be financed through it. What worries me most is that if, that's a big if, things gets really bad, the US will be forced to beg for funds from the dollar treasure trove of China, Japan and other countries, which will dramatically alter the financial balance of power of the world. This could be the unexpected part of the NWO. Another problem will be that US might be forced to leave Iraq prematurely, leaving it into a chaos, due of lack of funds.

---

The US has already been borrowing three billion dollars a day from mainly Asia for well over half a decade now. China is already America's reserve banker. The balance of power is already altered. The US national debt stands no chance of being paid down for some considerable time. Iraq is already chaos. An ungrateful volcano.


And I'm not gloomy, just realistic. Remember six months ago when I realistically told you the world was headed for financial meltdown and you told me I was being gloomy? Not gloomy, realistic. And Infallible of course. Over the past year and a half, the greatest crisis of my and other generations, I've been right to the point of Infallibility over what's going to happen, from predicting before the first signs of the crisis that subprime debt would tip the whole massively-levered applecart over up to predicting a few days ago the nationalisation programme. It's not a good idea to bet against me right now. :)

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Yup, the Asians have been gobbling up the US debt notes, but not yet enough to be held hostage by them. But if this crisis goes really bad, then the US might be at the mercy of them. Imagine China dictating to them what to do. Or am I imaginining things here?

Nope, I never bet against anyone who's infallible...
...certainly not against anyone who claims to be one - that's like jumping in a deep blue sea.;)

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Seems to me that learning Mandarin might be a good skill to have along with my gardening.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Seems to me that learning Mandarin might be a good skill to have along with my gardening.

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Yup, then you can start a new business serving chopsueys to our new masters.

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Seems to me that learning Mandarin might be a good skill to have along with my gardening.

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Yup, then you can start a new business serving chopsueys to our new masters.

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Well since they will probably read this, I would like to say I for one welcome our new overlords.

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Originally Posted by pacfan

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacfan

National debt would be a big problem after this mess because most of the bailout funds, which will easily run into trillions when it's done with, will be financed through it. What worries me most is that if, that's a big if, things gets really bad, the US will be forced to beg for funds from the dollar treasure trove of China, Japan and other countries, which will dramatically alter the financial balance of power of the world. This could be the unexpected part of the NWO. Another problem will be that US might be forced to leave Iraq prematurely, leaving it into a chaos, due of lack of funds.

---

The US has already been borrowing three billion dollars a day from mainly Asia for well over half a decade now. China is already America's reserve banker. The balance of power is already altered. The US national debt stands no chance of being paid down for some considerable time. Iraq is already chaos. An ungrateful volcano.


And I'm not gloomy, just realistic. Remember six months ago when I realistically told you the world was headed for financial meltdown and you told me I was being gloomy? Not gloomy, realistic. And Infallible of course. Over the past year and a half, the greatest crisis of my and other generations, I've been right to the point of Infallibility over what's going to happen, from predicting before the first signs of the crisis that subprime debt would tip the whole massively-levered applecart over up to predicting a few days ago the nationalisation programme. It's not a good idea to bet against me right now. :)

---

Yup, the Asians have been gobbling up the US debt notes, but not yet enough to be held hostage by them. But if this crisis goes really bad, then the US might be at the mercy of them. Imagine China dictating to them what to do. Or am I imaginining things here?

Nope, I never bet against anyone who's infallible...
...certainly not against anyone who claims to be one - that's like jumping in a deep blue sea.;)

---

China literally own US mortgage papers. I wouldn't say they're dictating things but they've got a big say in what's going to happen from now on. The global financial system will need a lot of Chinese money over the next few years to get out of its current hole. money from other economic surplus countries and sovereign wealth funds too. So they're like the guy who holds our mortgage papers. Hopefully they won't start setting our interest rates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacfan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Seems to me that learning Mandarin might be a good skill to have along with my gardening.

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Yup, then you can start a new business serving chopsueys to our new masters.

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Well since they will probably read this, I would like to say I for one welcome our new overlords.

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;D;D;D

***************

Now that the bubble has started to burst and is still bursting, the question is, will the economy also collapse? That is the question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

China literally own US mortgage papers. I wouldn't say they're dictating things but they've got a big say in what's going to happen from now on. The global financial system will need a lot of Chinese money over the next few years to get out of its current hole. money from other economic surplus countries and sovereign wealth funds too. So they're like the guy who holds our mortgage papers. Hopefully they won't start setting our interest rates.

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Reminds me of US before WWI. After financing the allies during the war, they became the sole superpower overnight, so to speak. Can this happen to China. Are we seeing a major shift in the global balance of power. Is the US on the decline as some have been theorizing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pacfan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

China literally own US mortgage papers. I wouldn't say they're dictating things but they've got a big say in what's going to happen from now on. The global financial system will need a lot of Chinese money over the next few years to get out of its current hole. money from other economic surplus countries and sovereign wealth funds too. So they're like the guy who holds our mortgage papers. Hopefully they won't start setting our interest rates.

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Reminds me of US before WWI. After financing the allies during the war, they became the sole superpower overnight, so to speak. Can this happen to China. Are we seeing a major shift in the global balance of power. Is the US on the decline as some have been theorizing.

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The US is now in a similar position to Britain at the beginning of last century. It's eminently possible that this crisis could turn into the equivalent of WW1. A lot of banks are going to go bust round the world and there'll be some very big ones to go. Which country is the thing and does the country have the wherewithall to bail the bank out or will it take the country down? Even my Infallibility can't look at banks' balance sheets so we just have to wait and see.

Every major bank in every major economy is now bankrupt. Things are going to get very bad indeed. A global Depression is now the best-case scenario. Things will get so bad this year that even Lyle will begin to show concern.