Geez these f'ers are crazy.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

CFH I think maybe you misunderstood my original statement. I'm not a very PC person so you will have to forgive me if I come off a little rough around the edges. I meant that as long radical islamists are volunteering and funding international terrorist orginizations my government will send me to defeat them. So I will continue to find myself on the other side of a firefight against muslims.

I have mixed feelings on whether the current type of government in Iraq can work. I was impressed with the Sunnis I worked with. They were typically well educated, hardworking, more open to western culture and government and well organized. The Shia due to 70+ years of having a boot on their neck are quite often poor and uneducated. But more importantly they are not organized. They spend just as much time with infighting as anything else. With the Sunnis now having a bigger role politcally we will just have to wait and see if the two can get along. The Kurds are really the biggest obstacle to a united Iraq. If they cannot be appeased and afforded some semblance of autonomy they will declare independence. With large swaths of both Turkey and Iran having Kurdish majorities this would instantly bring about tension and possibily military action. A resurgence of sectarian violence between Sunnia and Shia would pit a Iranian supported Shia majority against a Gulf State funded Sunni minority. We can blaim the cultural differences in Iraq and Afghanistan on the Brits though they drew the lines ;D Anyhow I digress...regardless of why or how we ended up in Iraq, the potential for disaster with a too speedy withdrawal compared with the possibilty of a democratic non fundamentalist nation smack dab in the middle of an area that is still coming to grips with the western world seems a no brainer to me

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Hey Van,

I just want to take the opportunity to apologize again. My beef is not with you on any personal level, and it really has nothing to do with you. I am very critical of the governments of both our countries, and our "western/northern" way of life in general, and I guess for whatever reason I transferred my feelings about them to you after I read your comment. That is both juvenile and unfair for me to do. After reading your clarification, I did misunderstand what you were saying as well, but that is really no excuse for my behavior. I know my views are not mainstream, and sometimes I can be quite provocative and belligerent about them when I get heated, which is why I normally avoid these types of threads. You have as much right to your views as I do to mine, and for me to act otherwise is absurd.

I'm going to try and avoid discussing the politics etc. of the situation because we have quite different views and arguing about them over the internet serves little to no purpose. I do believe we both wish to see the same thing at the end of the day.

Anyways, all the best to you and I hope you come back to your family safely at the end of the day. Good luck.

No worries brother

I watched a great film yesterday Van Childs called the Hurt Locker, detailing the lives of a three man bomb disposal squad in Baghdad during their last 30 or so days until the next rotation.

It was a really good film I thought and showed exactly how scary and intimidating it must be to be an American soldier stationed in enemy territory.

Really good film I thought, not an action film but a gripping and tense film nonetheless.

I definitely appreciate the bravery it takes to live the life of a soldier....

I didn't read this whole thread but someone in the beginning claimed when has christianity ever done as much evil as islam, well islam is a fairly young religion compared to judaism and christianity, and guess what those two in their early years were just as shit fuckin crazy. The crusades were basically sanctioned killings by the pope, along the way they didn't really care whom they killed often times killing the christians as well and sacking christian cities. No religion is crazier than another one, its just that at the moment loonies are more dominant in islam than in christianity, but it wasn't always like that. For fucks sake adolf hitler considered himself to be doing gods work.There are highs and lows for every civilization, islamic civilization if you want to call it that, just happens to be perhaps at a low at the moment, just like western culture/ christian civilization was at a low for several hundred years during the dark ages, during this time the middle east was rather advanced when compared to europe. I can't believe people don't see this...

Well that's because you're entirely wrong.

Good debate tactic just tell someone they're wrong, and keep at it. Why am I entirely wrong? Crusades weren't really military campaigns by christian europe waged against muslims, jews, eastern orthodox christians and numerous other peoples? They weren't sanctioned by the pope? Crusaders were not granted forgiveness for all kinds of sins by the church if they went on a crusade? Talking of church approved torture and prosecution anyone remember the inquistions? Expeling/killing of jews from almost every european country during the medival ages, not once but several times. Christianity has just as much blood on its hands as islam, the religions themselves are not crazy they're just books/systems of belief and people do with it as they choose to do with it.

So I guess the real point your making is while Christianity's mainstream denominations have attempted to evolve and change to better fit the world's current moral compass and put its less than savory history behind it Islam is still an extremely violent religion. Couldn't agree more

And I'm not going to disagree with that statement I said at the moment there are more loonies in islam than christianity. islam has a lot of its followers that are crazy fuckheads at the moment, but that doesn't make islam as a religion more evil than another religion.

Ted Haggerty ran the largest church in America,constantly railed against homosexual marriage,all the while going on meth binges with his male prostitute lover.
Yeah,its the muslims that are crazy

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ted Haggerty ran the largest church in America,constantly railed against homosexual marriage,all the while going on meth binges with his male prostitute lover.
Yeah,its the muslims that are crazy

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Again the difference is once his indiscretions were found out his congregation were shocked and horrifed and that he was immediately removed from his position.

What part of this is hard for you to understand Monkey? In Christianity and America if you break the law you get punished by the rest of your OWN people becuase what you did was wrong.

In Islam it's the GOVERNMENTS and offical Islamic LEADERS that are declaring this law.

Once again you try and prove one point only for your statement to actually demonstrate the total opposite, commit wrongdoing in a Christian Church in a democratically elected government in America and the rest of the Western World, you will be punished for your wrongdoing. Thanks' for the clarification ;)

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ted Haggerty ran the largest church in America,constantly railed against homosexual marriage,all the while going on meth binges with his male prostitute lover.
Yeah,its the muslims that are crazy

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Did anyone get stoned to death? Did anyone get their heads cut off? Was anyone killed?

You know there is a personality disorder that attracts people like Haggerty and Jim Bakker to religion...I'm sure there are muslim imams that do the same damn thing. They want to be like democrats, telling everyone what to do while living by their own rules when no one is looking.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ted Haggerty ran the largest church in America,constantly railed against homosexual marriage,all the while going on meth binges with his male prostitute lover.
Yeah,its the muslims that are crazy

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Let me once again preface this post by saying that I have no use for organized religion nor oppose gay marriage. Biblical scripture is pretty straight forward on being against homosexuality. One can interpret how he wants but it definately doesn't give a glowing endorsement. So while not forgiving him for being a meth using hypocrite would you really expect him to not be against gay marriage? Christians do not believe its a "christ like" lifestyle. While I don't personally agree I can certainly understand that its is a strongly held personal religious belief. Strangely enough homosexual acts are pervasive in many Islamic cultures. I've actually witnessed this in two different islamic countries. (don't ask) Of course any two individuals that attempted to be openly gay would be met with a severe punishment.

Armin while I can agree that one organized religion isn't better than another it can't be denied that in today's world Islam is leading the way in radicals commiting heinous acts of violence and human right violations. More importantly through state sponsored religion these things are being done almost as a national policy with international implications. Is this due to Islam's doctrine, regional issues or ethnic traditions? I don't know but if you can't see that Islam's follower are at a crucial point in their religion's history where they need to decide what direction it is going to go then I question your objectivity.

Van I'm glad you agree that one religion isn't more evil than another because that's all I was getting at. As for in todays world, I already stated that there are more loonies and hard line extremists in islam than other religions, but I don't think its due to islams doctrine. And yes hopefully muslims everywhere will not give in control of their religion completely to hard line extremists and hopefully can cleanse themselves of these elements.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ted Haggerty ran the largest church in America,constantly railed against homosexual marriage,all the while going on meth binges with his male prostitute lover.
Yeah,its the muslims that are crazy

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Did anyone get stoned to death? Did anyone get their heads cut off? Was anyone killed?

You know there is a personality disorder that attracts people like Haggerty and Jim Bakker to religion...I'm sure there are muslim imams that do the same damn thing. They want to be like democrats, telling everyone what to do while living by their own rules when no one is looking.

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How many gay bashings do you think occur in the US every day?
I know Mathew Sheppard could have used a little tolerance when they were stringing him up like a scarecrow

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

How many gay bashings do you think occur in the US every day?
I know Mathew Sheppard could have used a little tolerance when they were stringing him up like a scarecrow

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How many honor killings and mutilations happen to girls in islam a day just because they are going to fucking school or because THEY got raped?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Jjy_eVaGI

I know certain parts of our own population in the western world struggle because of stereotypes and misconceptions and just plain fear of someone being different but it's usually not to the level where someone gets killed or mutilated and if it is to that level the people who committed the crime are punished for their actions.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

How many gay bashings do you think occur in the US every day?
I know Mathew Sheppard could have used a little tolerance when they were stringing him up like a scarecrow

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How many honor killings and mutilations happen to girls in islam a day just because they are going to fucking school or because THEY got raped?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Jjy_eVaGII know certain parts of our own population in the western world struggle because of stereotypes and misconceptions and just plain fear of someone being different but it's usually not to the level where someone gets killed or mutilated and if it is to that level the people who committed the crime are punished for their actions.

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If both sides knew how to learn from their scriptures properly they would realise they should be simply recognizing their ego so that it dies off and leaves control of their mind to their real self.

Instead they oppose ego in others; so it grows and strengthens in themselves further secretly, because it strives on you thinking it is you and the dramas created increase the ego in both sides; like an argument does or agreement also! if your ego gets to be backed up from it.(there is the mental catch 22 that leads into emotion and feeling, further springing the trap).

Religion /politics are now generated by the exact same force from within the human pshce, except its now totally on mass which makes all the egos feel even more correct. Others on the outer,can blame goverments ,some others blame God and his false followers from both main religions (the trap has even them), so all are casualties of the same trap.
Until they go back to the start and deal with it within themselves on their own,there will be no answer and no deliverance.

I didn't bother posting in this thread because we've done this argument before. Yes lots of Muslims are a bunch of backward savages but that's because they live in societies predominately made up of religious conservatives and liberal voices and values in their societies are shut out. If America hadn't had a couple of hundred years of liberalism Americans would still be burning witches.


Anyway :

Orchard Park police are investigating a particularly gruesome killing, the beheading of a woman, after her husband — an influential member of the local Muslim community — reported her death to police Thursday.
Police identified the victim as Aasiya Z. Hassan, 37. Detectives have charged her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, 44, with second-degree murder........






Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.............




"Obviously, this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said today.




Prominent Orchard Park man charged with beheading his wife : Police Blotter : The Buffalo News




I think Mr. Hassan should be applauded for his efforts to help portray Muslims in a more positive light and heal the cultural divisions in our society, but I can't help feeling that he's gone and undermined his efforts somewhat with the beheading of his wife.


And I agree with the D.A. I just can't think of a more serious form of domestic abuse than chopping your spouse's head off.

Muslims are still nuts and totally useless.

Kirk,

I came across that article and thought about this thread but decided we had said enough. Anyway what irony. The guy attempts to portray good hardworking Muslims and becomes the stereotype. I'm waiting for Trainer Monkey to post some domestic atrocity by a Baptist minister or something. The channel is a good idea I would simply like to see the muslims in America and Europe taking a more vocal activism against their radical brothers. I think this more than anything would help push back the stigma

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

Kirk,

I came across that article and thought about this thread but decided we had said enough. Anyway what irony. The guy attempts to portray good hardworking Muslims and becomes the stereotype. I'm waiting for Trainer Monkey to post some domestic atrocity by a Baptist minister or something. The channel is a good idea I would simply like to see the muslims in America and Europe taking a more vocal activism against their radical brothers. I think this more than anything would help push back the stigma

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Wouldnt we all ,but they live in fear of them more than they fear being post holed by all of us.

*Much like the evil Bapist priests who prey on our childrens as$es and the sheep who follow them and dont take sides ;D. There ,Trainer monkeys work is all done for him.;)

He is busy in another thread standing up for the crap diet pros are forced to eat and something about his telephone ringing if an amature ever turns pro and wants to fight an undercard. :confused: I have no idea what that has to with...

Just for the record : The price of fish is topping out at $23.95 per kilo here for king george whiting.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

How many gay bashings do you think occur in the US every day?
I know Mathew Sheppard could have used a little tolerance when they were stringing him up like a scarecrow

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How many honor killings and mutilations happen to girls in islam a day just because they are going to fucking school or because THEY got raped?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Jjy_eVaGI
I know certain parts of our own population in the western world struggle because of stereotypes and misconceptions and just plain fear of someone being different but it's usually not to the level where someone gets killed or mutilated and if it is to that level the people who committed the crime are punished for their actions.

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Wait,let me get this right,your argument is "Since they can act f-ed up,we can act even more f-ed up"?
Whats next,"We raped slightly less women"?

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

How many gay bashings do you think occur in the US every day?
I know Mathew Sheppard could have used a little tolerance when they were stringing him up like a scarecrow

---

How many honor killings and mutilations happen to girls in islam a day just because they are going to fucking school or because THEY got raped?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Jjy_eVaGII know certain parts of our own population in the western world struggle because of stereotypes and misconceptions and just plain fear of someone being different but it's usually not to the level where someone gets killed or mutilated and if it is to that level the people who committed the crime are punished for their actions.

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Wait,let me get this right,your argument is "Since they can act f-ed up,we can act even more f-ed up"?
Whats next,"We raped slightly less women"?

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Your putting words in his mouth ,I never heard him say that or even insinuate that!

Dont you think he is pointing out that they are by far worse than us in these acts against helpless people.

We dont allow our worse criminals to be that callous, horrific and cruel against helpless people without them having to pay for their actions when caught.

Trainer, what do you have to say to the families of the barbers in Pakistan who got their heads cut off for shaving beards off of people who were paying for that service????

I've been thinking about this, and the conclusion that comes to mind is that TM is confused as to root causes. A fag doesn't get killed in the name of God. Those idiots are nothing but ignorant redneck cunts, not true Christians. Christianity, while having its kooks, does in no way support the actions of the radical few/insane. Islam does, and it supports hatred of ANYONE who is not Muslim. Nowhere in the teachings of any other religion does it say or support hating or killing those who are not like you.

So Islam DOES suck, Muslims DO suck, because the root cause, Islam, perpetuates and promotes hatred and torture.

Torture in the Quran and early Islam
The bottom line: Jesus Christ came with good news and the love of God. As the eternal Son of God, he came to save people and to transform them from the inside out. If people do not want this, then they are free to go their own way. This is religious freedom. On the other hand, being only a human messenger (Suras 3:144; 39:30; 41:6) who needed to control his religion and Muslims, Muhammad came with crucifixion and mutilation and torture. This is religious slavery.
Christianity advances society forward. Islam drags society backwards.
Jesus saves. Muhammad tortured.

at least some good news

Saudi king shakes up religious establishment

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

at least some good news

Saudi king shakes up religious establishment

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That's just down to the succession struggle going on in Saudi's royal family. They're not changing their ways at all. They're still spending billions funding madrassas and radical Islam all over the world and half the royal family are still funding Al Quaeda.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

I've been thinking about this, and the conclusion that comes to mind is that TM is confused as to root causes. A fag doesn't get killed in the name of God. Those idiots are nothing but ignorant redneck cunts, not true Christians. Christianity, while having its kooks, does in no way support the actions of the radical few/insane. Islam does, and it supports hatred of ANYONE who is not Muslim. Nowhere in the teachings of any other religion does it say or support hating or killing those who are not like you.

So Islam DOES suck, Muslims DO suck, because the root cause, Islam, perpetuates and promotes hatred and torture.

Torture in the Quran and early Islam
The bottom line: Jesus Christ came with good news and the love of God. As the eternal Son of God, he came to save people and to transform them from the inside out. If people do not want this, then they are free to go their own way. This is religious freedom. On the other hand, being only a human messenger (Suras 3:144; 39:30; 41:6) who needed to control his religion and Muslims, Muhammad came with crucifixion and mutilation and torture. This is religious slavery.
Christianity advances society forward. Islam drags society backwards.
Jesus saves. Muhammad tortured.

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Move over Shalman Rushdie ;D you going to live in his old flat for a few years mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

I've been thinking about this, and the conclusion that comes to mind is that TM is confused as to root causes. A fag doesn't get killed in the name of God. Those idiots are nothing but ignorant redneck cunts, not true Christians. Christianity, while having its kooks, does in no way support the actions of the radical few/insane. Islam does, and it supports hatred of ANYONE who is not Muslim. Nowhere in the teachings of any other religion does it say or support hating or killing those who are not like you.

So Islam DOES suck, Muslims DO suck, because the root cause, Islam, perpetuates and promotes hatred and torture.

Torture in the Quran and early Islam
The bottom line: Jesus Christ came with good news and the love of God. As the eternal Son of God, he came to save people and to transform them from the inside out. If people do not want this, then they are free to go their own way. This is religious freedom. On the other hand, being only a human messenger (Suras 3:144; 39:30; 41:6) who needed to control his religion and Muslims, Muhammad came with crucifixion and mutilation and torture. This is religious slavery.
Christianity advances society forward. Islam drags society backwards.
Jesus saves. Muhammad tortured.

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Move over Shalman Rushdie ;D you going to live in his old flat for a few years mate.

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I guess the Jews are pretty screwed up too,considering Jesus didnt do his crucifixion all on his own
And Judaism is the basis for both Islam and Christianity
I guess your all warped

We're talking about TODAY.

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

We're talking about TODAY.

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You mean like the very Christian ex President of the US torturing muslims behind closed doors?

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

I've been thinking about this, and the conclusion that comes to mind is that TM is confused as to root causes. A fag doesn't get killed in the name of God. Those idiots are nothing but ignorant redneck cunts, not true Christians. Christianity, while having its kooks, does in no way support the actions of the radical few/insane. Islam does, and it supports hatred of ANYONE who is not Muslim. Nowhere in the teachings of any other religion does it say or support hating or killing those who are not like you.

So Islam DOES suck, Muslims DO suck, because the root cause, Islam, perpetuates and promotes hatred and torture.

Torture in the Quran and early Islam
The bottom line: Jesus Christ came with good news and the love of God. As the eternal Son of God, he came to save people and to transform them from the inside out. If people do not want this, then they are free to go their own way. This is religious freedom. On the other hand, being only a human messenger (Suras 3:144; 39:30; 41:6) who needed to control his religion and Muslims, Muhammad came with crucifixion and mutilation and torture. This is religious slavery.
Christianity advances society forward. Islam drags society backwards.
Jesus saves. Muhammad tortured.

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Move over Shalman Rushdie ;D you going to live in his old flat for a few years mate.

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I guess the Jews are pretty screwed up too,considering Jesus didnt do his crucifixion all on his own
And Judaism is the basis for both Islam and Christianity
I guess your all warped

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There is good and bad in every race and every religion the warped know they are warped in their hearts ; they are the ones that make excuses to be able to continue their predudices which serves to make them feel up the ladder from as many others as they can.They do this generally because they cant move up the ladder or swim into the dep end of the pool on their own so they continually point out the ones they feel are in shallower water than themelves.
It doesnt hold water if they are correct on one person and can prove it so then they search for more reasons to make themselves feel just in their thinking,they know deep that its heartless at the root of it all though.

By the way its you're not your in that instance.

Actually if you used the term "they're all warped then" ,you wouldnt have implicated all the above posters as being below you in thought.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You mean like the very Christian ex President of the US torturing muslims behind closed doors?

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So he personally did it?

...like the hardcore muslims who PERSONALLY beheaded Daniel Pearl

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You mean like the very Christian ex President of the US torturing muslims behind closed doors?

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So he personally did it?

...like the hardcore muslims who PERSONALLY beheaded Daniel Pearl

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You mean if you order something,your not responsible for the actions?

Lets save Gitmo for its own thread..We need something fresh anyway