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The key is patience. After mosely fight, then who else is the fighter that makes most sense in terms of money and fame for pac if not for marquez and after marquez i think it could be berto or bradley or alexander etc. etc ... See, in due time, these guys will all have a chance to fight pacman eventually. But if floyd comes out and the fight happens i do think it is pac's last fight especially if he wins emphatically.
People here can consider me what they like. Why would I be bothered what a few gormless, sycophantic pacroid fans think of me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Indeed I am. Sadly you are still considered a buffoon even there.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerWell I don't see a cheerleading squad bigging up the pacquiao cock sucking, sycophantic bullshit and down right nonsence you spout. Maybe in your own little fantasy world, you're really popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by DildoYou overestimate yourself in thinking anybody gives two shits what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerOk Mosley beat up a guy that only had one functioning hand. Does that make you feel better? Cuz I'm telling you now it does fuck all for selling the fight to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dildo
You really do have an elevated opinion of yourself don't you. Stick to that little fanasy world of yours, I'm sure in there you've actually had a woman touch you.
Your opinion means fuck all to me. Why would it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerPeople here can consider me what they like. Why would I be bothered what a few gormless, sycophantic pacroid fans think of me?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIndeed I am. Sadly you are still considered a buffoon even there.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerWell I don't see a cheerleading squad bigging up the pacquiao cock sucking, sycophantic bullshit and down right nonsence you spout. Maybe in your own little fantasy world, you're really popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by DildoYou overestimate yourself in thinking anybody gives two shits what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerOk Mosley beat up a guy that only had one functioning hand. Does that make you feel better? Cuz I'm telling you now it does fuck all for selling the fight to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dildo
You really do have an elevated opinion of yourself don't you. Stick to that little fanasy world of yours, I'm sure in there you've actually had a woman touch you.
Your opinion means fuck all to me. Why would it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerWell I don't see a cheerleading squad bigging up the pacquiao cock sucking, sycophantic bullshit and down right nonsence you spout. Maybe in your own little fantasy world, you're really popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by DildoYou overestimate yourself in thinking anybody gives two shits what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerOk Mosley beat up a guy that only had one functioning hand. Does that make you feel better? Cuz I'm telling you now it does fuck all for selling the fight to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dildo
Word of the day toilet paper?
Then why come back to tell me?Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerPeople here can consider me what they like. Why would I be bothered what a few gormless, sycophantic pacroid fans think of me?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIndeed I am. Sadly you are still considered a buffoon even there.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerWell I don't see a cheerleading squad bigging up the pacquiao cock sucking, sycophantic bullshit and down right nonsence you spout. Maybe in your own little fantasy world, you're really popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by DildoYou overestimate yourself in thinking anybody gives two shits what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerOk Mosley beat up a guy that only had one functioning hand. Does that make you feel better? Cuz I'm telling you now it does fuck all for selling the fight to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dildo
You really do have an elevated opinion of yourself don't you. Stick to that little fanasy world of yours, I'm sure in there you've actually had a woman touch you.
Your opinion means fuck all to me. Why would it?
In my fantasy world I have been touched by many woman. Now right now though. Right now in my fantasy world I am shitting on you from a great height.
Plop.
lotta hostility.
... and spelling mistakes.
Dang, I had a dream that this fight had happen already and pac stop shane in 30 seconds. :o
Which means the opposite, which means Pac will lose this fight! :eek:
I hope Mosley gets the win , he really doesn't deserve all the hate he is getting for this fight.
He seems like a real good person, Mosley has lost a lot and has gotten a lot taken from him.
I hope he does well..
Nobody hates Mosley for taking the fight, he'd be a fool not to, it's just the most of us think it will be completely one-sided and largely pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Obviously this is a fight most posters on here dont wont to see, we all crave Pac v Floyd thats the fight and only fight we want Pacs n Floyds names mentioned in, unfortunatly Floyds got court cases to be sorted so Pacs got to keep active, now imagine if you have got a 35 million doller pay day lined up (probably more) what you going to do, take a risky fight and take serious damage that may leave you not to be at your best fighting Mayweather or do you take on some one who is still a name so the fight sells but not too risky an opponent, we all realise Shanes on the downside of his career, the mans still got speed of hand and can bang, there is a slim chance that Manny could get sparked out, although personally I think Pac will stop him inside eight rounds and if Shane does hear the last bell he will be messed up big time. Check out Haglers, Leonard, Duran, Tyson, De la Hoya or any one who has been at the top of the tree for sometime, they all have fill in fights why they are waiting for a mega fight, its the way its always been, tough on us but hey we aint the ones lacing em up. Unfortuntly money comes 1st and us fans a very distant second.
Man, I don't know which legend to root for. This is like picking a side between Marvelous Marvin and Sugar Ray; both fighters are badass, have fought the best and earned my respect. I'm just gonna gun for the both of them. :cool:
But, honestly, I'm a bit worried about Shane Mosley. This isn't the sharp and fast pistol in Floyd Mayweather he's fighting. He's going up against Manny Packin' Paquiao and he can't let up and breath after round 4. He can't let up at all or their will be fight stoppage. He's gonna have to fight wise and with every fiber in his being if he wants to win.
I am sure that the Pacquiao-Mosley fight will be viewed by more people than any other fights out there that Pacquiao could have taken (except a Mayweather bout, of course). Although money did come first, I would not say that the fans are a very DISTANT second. The general public are fans too and a lot of them will watch the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
I like this matchup. Mosley got beat last may by the 2nd best fighter in the world. No shame in that. His last fight was just a bad style matchup. His skills cant be guaged on that fight. Seems like an action packed fight to me. Pac man last fights were against good fighters but he is the best in the world so he exploited them with his speed and movement. Mosley has a chance because he is short and takes chances. His reach is a little longer. height is a little taller. I like this one. Cant wait to see it. Mosley has a good chance. Pac is still the best until someone beats him.
Last time Juan Manuel Marquez fought Floyd he didn't get whooped on as bad as Mosley.
He lost every round and was dropped but just didn't take the amount of punishment Floyd did.
So it's ok for Mosley to loses a one sided decision to Floyd, but when Marquez does..
The biggest Money fight and what pleases the fans the most is synonymous. What you write is an oxymoron. If fans don't want to see the fight they won't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
Completely true. To hardcore fans it might be boxing's equivilent of X Factor, but if that is what the people want then why wouldn't they give it to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyThe biggest Money fight and what pleases the fans the most is synonymous. What you write is an oxymoron. If fans don't want to see the fight they won't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
Mosley is a game guy with a great chin, but at 40 years old, he is in for the mother of all pastings.
The Mosley of 2001 would have been a nightmare more Manny, but the Mosley of 2011 will not provide him with any kind of test.
I predict a TKO win for Manny, with the ref having to stop the fight in the mid to late rounds.
It's weird. I don't want this fight to happen but I will watch it. What upsets me about it is that Manny will likely have at most 4 more fights in his career, and as one of the best fighters in the world I'd like to see him truly tested. Unfortunately I just don't see Shane posing Manny any real problem and therefore, this fight is a wasted opportunity.
I watched the Mosley/Mayweather fight again the other day and i distinctly remember Nazim Richardson telling Shane after the 10th that he wasn't going to watch Shane take those shots. Manny throws a great volume of punches and is so fast and accurate that I invisage Nazim pulling Shane out.
This is the sort of fight that will have us all saying afterward "i wish he had not taken that fight against Pacquiao" Some fighters just go on far to long and this is no exception.
Agreed. Shane was close to being stopped vs Floyd who isnt a banger and isnt aggressive either. Pac is boh and on top of that he is a volume puncher aswel. If anything Shane will be even worse than he was against Mora so when he gases after a couple of minutes I see him being unable to get out the way for the rest of the rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Shane will show heart to stay in there but Nazim will pull him out and it will be a big disappointment of a fight. It will start a bandwagon that Pac did something Floyd couldnt etc etc.
To stop Shane would be an incredible feat and should not be downplayed if Manny Pac does it.
To add some new life to this discussion, seeing as though it's still going at the top of the thread list.... -
What if Mosley puts up a turn back the clock showing where at least 9 rounds give Pac a real run for his money, with some really intelligent, focused fighting,,, would that actually give Pac some more credit for winning this fight?? (whether anyone see's Mosley capable of that or not)
If that were to happen I would be delighted. What I don't want above all is for Shane to shoot his load after four and be pulled out looking like Shrek after six. Mosley is far older than any of Pacs recent opponents, been more inactive, seems to get tired early and just hasn't been winning. The omen's are ominous. I really worry that we are going to be seeing a tired worn legend of the game, sat on his stool not responding to his corner. That would be horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Even Margarito became repetitive after eight, nobody wants to see Pac beat up on Mosley. So, if Mosley can roll back the clock, I would be delighted. But what I really want to see is Pac fight someone younger, undamaged, fast and on a winning streak. All of the recent opponents have been damaged fighters. He could have fought Berto, but once again has chosen someone who lost considerably more rounds than he has won in the past 4 years. There are no unbeaten names on his resume.
Well said Miles. Nobody wants to see Shane hurt. It was okay watching Pac beat up Margarito cuz he deserved it but Shane is a good guy. One of the nice guys of boxing so it would be sad to see him under fire not being able to pull the trigger. He looked dishreartened even at his best when he couldnt get going. We saw that against Floyd aswel and I thought that was bad enough watching him struggle. I thought that was his career ending beating but here we are with him about to face an even more vicious opponent who will try to take him out unlike Floyd. Bad signs for old man Shane.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIf that were to happen I would be delighted. What I don't want above all is for Shane to shoot his load after four and be pulled out looking like Shrek after six. Mosley is far older than any of Pacs recent opponents, been more inactive, seems to get tired early and just hasn't been winning. The omen's are ominous. I really worry that we are going to be seeing a tired worn legend of the game, sat on his stool not responding to his corner. That would be horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Even Margarito became repetitive after eight, nobody wants to see Pac beat up on Mosley. So, if Mosley can roll back the clock, I would be delighted. But what I really want to see is Pac fight someone younger, undamaged, fast and on a winning streak. All of the recent opponents have been damaged fighters. He could have fought Berto, but once again has chosen someone who lost considerably more rounds than he has won in the past 4 years. There are no unbeaten names on his resume.
What I will say though is Shane is not an easy fight for anyone. He has a whole load of heart and I appreciate that he will need more than just that but he has pedigree and is a former p4p number 1 himself. Marg, Cotto, Hatton etc werent. Atleast Shane used to be something even if he cant fight anymore. He may still be dangerous early particularly with the left hook to the body which hurt Pac last time. Also if he can catch Floyd clean then he will catch Pac clean at some point.
We are all disappointed the fight is happening but it could have been worse. As long as it lasts I think Shane will show heart before Nasim pulls him out. It will be a sad sight but entirely predictable.
Floyd is not a banger but accuracy and speed are contents of a hurt locker. Shane was one of the best but this fight will be one that makes me wonder if Shane's fans and of course I am one of them will have enough fingernails to bite that night or does Manny finally make a mistake and blink. Floyd was too accurate and Shane was never hit so much in the past. The only other problem I have with this fight is that I like both fighters equally.
I disagree to an extent. If Pacquiao knocks him out, or has him out on his feet and the referee stops it, then that is an incredible feat. But if Nazim pulls Shane out, for me that is to be expected. Like I said before, you saw what Nazim said to Shane after the 10th in the Mayweather fight. It's like Game said, Pacquiao is a harder puncher than Mayweather, has just as much if not more speed and is also a volume puncher with incredible accuracy. If Mosley was close to being stopped by Floyd after being gassed after 3 rounds, how do you expect him to deal with a guy who throws 90 punches a round?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Exactly... PAC stopping shane at this point means absolutely nothing. Especially when his own people have said shane needs to retire (roach) and that shane is going to tire after a round (ariza)...Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnI disagree to an extent. If Pacquiao knocks him out, or has him out on his feet and the referee stops it, then that is an incredible feat. But if Nazim pulls Shane out, for me that is to be expected. Like I said before, you saw what Nazim said to Shane after the 10th in the Mayweather fight. It's like Game said, Pacquiao is a harder puncher than Mayweather, has just as much if not more speed and is also a volume puncher with incredible accuracy. If Mosley was close to being stopped by Floyd after being gassed after 3 rounds, how do you expect him to deal with a guy who throws 90 punches a round?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'm expecting shane to be stopped inside of 8.
If he stopped Shane that would still be a big deal. Shane has never been stopped in his entire career. You guys write fighters off soooooo quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherExactly... PAC stopping shane at this point means absolutely nothing. Especially when his own people have said shane needs to retire (roach) and that shane is going to tire after a round (ariza)...Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnI disagree to an extent. If Pacquiao knocks him out, or has him out on his feet and the referee stops it, then that is an incredible feat. But if Nazim pulls Shane out, for me that is to be expected. Like I said before, you saw what Nazim said to Shane after the 10th in the Mayweather fight. It's like Game said, Pacquiao is a harder puncher than Mayweather, has just as much if not more speed and is also a volume puncher with incredible accuracy. If Mosley was close to being stopped by Floyd after being gassed after 3 rounds, how do you expect him to deal with a guy who throws 90 punches a round?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'm expecting shane to be stopped inside of 8.
He's not a corpse now he lost to Floyd. Ok he's not in his prime but he's still going to be a tought challenge and has never lacked durability.
Hopkins, Johnson and Tarver are still winning fights in their 40's and Shane has always been in fantastic shape.
He ain't no Mayweather, we know that, but he didn't gas out against a much bigger man in Sergio Mora and was pushing the pace in the championship rounds, so it would be a big deal if Manny could stop him.
For those who say this is a gimmie or just a stay busy or a money making fight...
Well come on let's keep it real so were Clottey and Margarito. :-\
;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
How can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
Miles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.
I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.
I think Marquez has a couple of fights in him max. It would be interesting to see him step up to 140 in his next fight, but there is no denying that Marquez is the one fighter above all others that has given Pac the most problems. Morales did it the one time, but Marquez has won the majority of the rounds twice in a row. Marquez deserves respect and more so considering most writers thought he won the last fight. We are all entitled to our opinions and I haven't even said that Marquez beats Pacquiao at 140, but it is most definitely a credible fight. The facts speak for themselves. These guys have history and Marquez has outboxed Pacquiao in both fights. The only doubting factor is the weight, but if Manny were to come down in weight and Marquez go up then that evens the playing field somewhat. Noone realistically expects Manny to boil down to 135 at this stage and it is ludicrious to even go there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainMiles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.
I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.
There is a trend in Pac's recent opponents and that is the fact that Arum owns them all. We are only getting Mosley/Pac because Mosley went rogue and against the wishes of Goldenboy who wanted the fight for Marquez. To suggest that Margarito deserved a shot at Pac is crazy talk. What has Mosley done recently to deserve a shot either? Marquez should have had his shot this time out. There was a demand from the fans who know the history and once again Arum and Pac have given a big middle finger to the expectations of the fans. Nobody is getting any fun from the current match up if it goes according to how many of us fear it will.
Of all the fighters at 140, I think Tim Bradley is the real deal. Sure, maybe he isn't quite known enough, but I think all the ingredients of a quality fighter are there. Tim Bradley would certainly be more deserving of a shot than Clottey was. Face it, we are being dicked around by Arum and Pac again and people keep on trying to justify bare faced crookery.
Are you sure there are no unbeaten names on Manny's resume?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIf that were to happen I would be delighted. What I don't want above all is for Shane to shoot his load after four and be pulled out looking like Shrek after six. Mosley is far older than any of Pacs recent opponents, been more inactive, seems to get tired early and just hasn't been winning. The omen's are ominous. I really worry that we are going to be seeing a tired worn legend of the game, sat on his stool not responding to his corner. That would be horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Even Margarito became repetitive after eight, nobody wants to see Pac beat up on Mosley. So, if Mosley can roll back the clock, I would be delighted. But what I really want to see is Pac fight someone younger, undamaged, fast and on a winning streak. All of the recent opponents have been damaged fighters. He could have fought Berto, but once again has chosen someone who lost considerably more rounds than he has won in the past 4 years. There are no unbeaten names on his resume.
Jorge Solis, Emmanuel Lucero, Nedal Hussein, Seung-Kon Chae and Medgoen Singsurat.
Well, of course you can go back through the resume and find some, but certainly not in many years.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerAre you sure there are no unbeaten names on Manny's resume?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIf that were to happen I would be delighted. What I don't want above all is for Shane to shoot his load after four and be pulled out looking like Shrek after six. Mosley is far older than any of Pacs recent opponents, been more inactive, seems to get tired early and just hasn't been winning. The omen's are ominous. I really worry that we are going to be seeing a tired worn legend of the game, sat on his stool not responding to his corner. That would be horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
Even Margarito became repetitive after eight, nobody wants to see Pac beat up on Mosley. So, if Mosley can roll back the clock, I would be delighted. But what I really want to see is Pac fight someone younger, undamaged, fast and on a winning streak. All of the recent opponents have been damaged fighters. He could have fought Berto, but once again has chosen someone who lost considerably more rounds than he has won in the past 4 years. There are no unbeaten names on his resume.
Jorge Solis, Emmanuel Lucero, Nedal Hussein, Seung-Kon Chae and Medgoen Singsurat.
I could live with the Clottey fight to be honest. He is a real strong welterweight and I thought it was interesting to see how Pac dealt with a fighter who didn't budge at his punches. The Margarito fight was a joke though. Fighting for 154lb title at a catchweight while rewarding a cheater with a payday on the bggest stage was just all bullshit to me. Personally, outside of Mayweather, the fight I'd like to see Pac in the most is Marquez 3. It's like Miles said, nobody has presented Pac with more problems and even after Marquez 1st fight with Diaz some guys on HBO were saying he was better than Pacquiao. I think Marquez deserves that fight. I thought Pac won the 1st fight but I thought Marquez won the 2nd fight. For me they are 1-1 and a 3rd fight has to be made. If challenges are few and far between for Pacquiao right now, I'm confused to why fans don't want to see him set the record straight once and for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think Marquez has a couple of fights in him max. It would be interesting to see him step up to 140 in his next fight, but there is no denying that Marquez is the one fighter above all others that has given Pac the most problems. Morales did it the one time, but Marquez has won the majority of the rounds twice in a row. Marquez deserves respect and more so considering most writers thought he won the last fight. We are all entitled to our opinions and I haven't even said that Marquez beats Pacquiao at 140, but it is most definitely a credible fight. The facts speak for themselves. These guys have history and Marquez has outboxed Pacquiao in both fights. The only doubting factor is the weight, but if Manny were to come down in weight and Marquez go up then that evens the playing field somewhat. Noone realistically expects Manny to boil down to 135 at this stage and it is ludicrious to even go there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainMiles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.
I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.
There is a trend in Pac's recent opponents and that is the fact that Arum owns them all. We are only getting Mosley/Pac because Mosley went rogue and against the wishes of Goldenboy who wanted the fight for Marquez. To suggest that Margarito deserved a shot at Pac is crazy talk. What has Mosley done recently to deserve a shot either? Marquez should have had his shot this time out. There was a demand from the fans who know the history and once again Arum and Pac have given a big middle finger to the expectations of the fans. Nobody is getting any fun from the current match up if it goes according to how many of us fear it will.
Of all the fighters at 140, I think Tim Bradley is the real deal. Sure, maybe he isn't quite known enough, but I think all the ingredients of a quality fighter are there. Tim Bradley would certainly be more deserving of a shot than Clottey was. Face it, we are being dicked around by Arum and Pac again and people keep on trying to justify bare faced crookery.
You're right about Marquez being the guy who has trouble pac twice. There is no denying that. There is no denying the fact that JMM is going down more often in fights and is fighting a more aggressive fight. There is no denying the other fact that, the welterweight pacman is not the same featherweight JMM had fought. The other fact that you can not deny is pac have proven himself at welterweight while JMM has not.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think Marquez has a couple of fights in him max. It would be interesting to see him step up to 140 in his next fight, but there is no denying that Marquez is the one fighter above all others that has given Pac the most problems. Morales did it the one time, but Marquez has won the majority of the rounds twice in a row. Marquez deserves respect and more so considering most writers thought he won the last fight. We are all entitled to our opinions and I haven't even said that Marquez beats Pacquiao at 140, but it is most definitely a credible fight. The facts speak for themselves. These guys have history and Marquez has outboxed Pacquiao in both fights. The only doubting factor is the weight, but if Manny were to come down in weight and Marquez go up then that evens the playing field somewhat. Noone realistically expects Manny to boil down to 135 at this stage and it is ludicrious to even go there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainMiles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.
I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.
There is a trend in Pac's recent opponents and that is the fact that Arum owns them all. We are only getting Mosley/Pac because Mosley went rogue and against the wishes of Goldenboy who wanted the fight for Marquez. To suggest that Margarito deserved a shot at Pac is crazy talk. What has Mosley done recently to deserve a shot either? Marquez should have had his shot this time out. There was a demand from the fans who know the history and once again Arum and Pac have given a big middle finger to the expectations of the fans. Nobody is getting any fun from the current match up if it goes according to how many of us fear it will.
Of all the fighters at 140, I think Tim Bradley is the real deal. Sure, maybe he isn't quite known enough, but I think all the ingredients of a quality fighter are there. Tim Bradley would certainly be more deserving of a shot than Clottey was. Face it, we are being dicked around by Arum and Pac again and people keep on trying to justify bare faced crookery.
Also Miles, you have such a big problem with pac having fights at catch weights. What did you think about the JMM/Floyd match up. Or the fact that you are suggesting pac to have a fight with JMM at well a catchweight 140? :o JMM is not a 140 fighter and pac is a 147 fighter which technically would be a catch weight for that match up, right?
I hope JMMs next fight is at 140 and not against the likes of Katsidis, Diaz who are guys suited for his style. 3 of his last 4 fights have been against those two and its been inside 2 years. While pac has gone up and dominated 6 fights since they last fought. You like to criticize who pac fights, well if you loook at their resume aside from floyd (who was a sound lost) on JMMs resume, pacs oppenent beats JMMs p4p or no matter how you look at it.
Diaz
Katsidis
Casamayor
Are those three wins better then
Margarito
Clottey
Cotto
Hatton
Dela Hoya
Not even close. I dont want take away how impressive JMM look going up and getting those wins, but you can not compare his wins over pacs wins. You want to call pacs oppenent old, wash up, drain, or any other excuse you can come up with. How about Casa who was 2 fights remove from a lost to Santa Cruz, a fight remove from struggling to katsidis who yes is JMMs last fight. Now why would JMM fight a guy who was already Ko'd by the guy who he tko'd Casa? Wait infact why would he rematch a guy who he already ko'd DIAz!!!!! :o In the last two years, JMM have only won fights against Diaz and Katsidis. In the last two years Pac have wins over Dela Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito. Whos selection of oppenent in the past two years has look shitty now MIles?
You like criticizes pacs opponents or the fights he takes well take a look at other fighters. JMM is actually worst.
it comes with the territory of PFP#1
The matchmaking is designed to find the best known name, perceived threat and ring the most money out of it with measured to no risk.
Thats what happens when you reach the big time.
I dont think its an indictment on Pac, I bet he would fight Wlad Klitschko if he was allowed. I think Roach, Kontz and Arum control the boat like they should but probably a bit much and oppurtunistic.
Roach said Hell no to Yuri Foreman at 154 because he was to tall and rangy. A year later he is in the ring with Margarito :o weird!!! thats an example of the cherry pick I was referring to.
Foreman is faster and moves better, but Margarito is probably stronger and perceived tougher with a bigger name
I think Berto poses the biggest risk, he has helacious handspeed and a viscious meanstreak of late. He seems to be sitting down on his punches and like Pac seems to be punching thru people now instead of tagging them like he's hitting a speedbag.(if that makes sense)
Not to mention his uppercut is probably the best in the business and it comes at you like lightning
Sure he went life and death a few times against Estrada and Collazzo..
Estrada gave Mosely fits if I remember and no one and I mean no one looks good against Luis Collazzo.
Julius, just out of interest, do you have an issue with Pac-Marquez at Welter? Because while I agree with Miles that a fight at 140lb would be more of an even fight, I accept that this is boxing, and when you hold the marbles, you get to make demands and personally, while people think JMM has no business above Lightweight, I think he does...if Pacquiao is the opponent. JMM has proved himself against Pacquiao twice and that for me is enough to warrant a 3rd fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainYou're right about Marquez being the guy who has trouble pac twice. There is no denying that. There is no denying the fact that JMM is going down more often in fights and is fighting a more aggressive fight. There is no denying the other fact that, the welterweight pacman is not the same featherweight JMM had fought. The other fact that you can not deny is pac have proven himself at welterweight while JMM has not.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI think Marquez has a couple of fights in him max. It would be interesting to see him step up to 140 in his next fight, but there is no denying that Marquez is the one fighter above all others that has given Pac the most problems. Morales did it the one time, but Marquez has won the majority of the rounds twice in a row. Marquez deserves respect and more so considering most writers thought he won the last fight. We are all entitled to our opinions and I haven't even said that Marquez beats Pacquiao at 140, but it is most definitely a credible fight. The facts speak for themselves. These guys have history and Marquez has outboxed Pacquiao in both fights. The only doubting factor is the weight, but if Manny were to come down in weight and Marquez go up then that evens the playing field somewhat. Noone realistically expects Manny to boil down to 135 at this stage and it is ludicrious to even go there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainMiles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHow can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain;D I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez
Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.
As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.
I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.
There is a trend in Pac's recent opponents and that is the fact that Arum owns them all. We are only getting Mosley/Pac because Mosley went rogue and against the wishes of Goldenboy who wanted the fight for Marquez. To suggest that Margarito deserved a shot at Pac is crazy talk. What has Mosley done recently to deserve a shot either? Marquez should have had his shot this time out. There was a demand from the fans who know the history and once again Arum and Pac have given a big middle finger to the expectations of the fans. Nobody is getting any fun from the current match up if it goes according to how many of us fear it will.
Of all the fighters at 140, I think Tim Bradley is the real deal. Sure, maybe he isn't quite known enough, but I think all the ingredients of a quality fighter are there. Tim Bradley would certainly be more deserving of a shot than Clottey was. Face it, we are being dicked around by Arum and Pac again and people keep on trying to justify bare faced crookery.
Also Miles, you have such a big problem with pac having fights at catch weights. What did you think about the JMM/Floyd match up. Or the fact that you are suggesting pac to have a fight with JMM at well a catchweight 140? :o JMM is not a 140 fighter and pac is a 147 fighter which technically would be a catch weight for that match up, right?
I hope JMMs next fight is at 140 and not against the likes of Katsidis, Diaz who are guys suited for his style. 3 of his last 4 fights have been against those two and its been inside 2 years. While pac has gone up and dominated 6 fights since they last fought. You like to criticize who pac fights, well if you loook at their resume aside from floyd (who was a sound lost) on JMMs resume, pacs oppenent beats JMMs p4p or no matter how you look at it.
Diaz
Katsidis
Casamayor
Are those three wins better then
Margarito
Clottey
Cotto
Hatton
Dela Hoya
Not even close. I dont want take away how impressive JMM look going up and getting those wins, but you can not compare his wins over pacs wins. You want to call pacs oppenent old, wash up, drain, or any other excuse you can come up with. How about Casa who was 2 fights remove from a lost to Santa Cruz, a fight remove from struggling to katsidis who yes is JMMs last fight. Now why would JMM fight a guy who was already Ko'd by the guy who he tko'd Casa? Wait infact why would he rematch a guy who he already ko'd DIAz!!!!! :o In the last two years, JMM have only won fights against Diaz and Katsidis. In the last two years Pac have wins over Dela Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito. Whos selection of oppenent in the past two years has look shitty now MIles?
You like criticizes pacs opponents or the fights he takes well take a look at other fighters. JMM is actually worst.
It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.