A prime tommy gunn morrison would have sparked vlad by the fifth..lol
Printable View
A prime tommy gunn morrison would have sparked vlad by the fifth..lol
...and for your next joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Chisora would have taken him in the ninth.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...and for your next joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Bottom line is vlad had a great career but lets all agree lennox is better than both brothers..
Yeah cuz they weren't really trying to hit him, huh? It just sort of happened. Lucky punches? Come the fuck on. No such thing in Boxing. They in the ring to punch. Punch they did. And Lewis couldn't take the punch. How is it luck?Quote:
Originally Posted by impThose losses were avenged and lucky punches that would have knocked out any heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
All im saying is lennox was a cut above the brothers but this is the brothers era and they are the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYeah cuz they weren't really trying to hit him, huh? It just sort of happened. Lucky punches? Come the fuck on. No such thing in Boxing. They in the ring to punch. Punch they did. And Lewis couldn't take the punch. How is it luck?Quote:
Originally Posted by impThose losses were avenged and lucky punches that would have knocked out any heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
All im saying is lennox was a cut above the brothers but this is the brothers era and they are the best.
Its lucky he underestimated them.
The irony of Lewis being called out for being ko'd twice in a thread about the -excellence- of Wlad is golden ;D
:lol:Quote:
I meant Ike not Tua my mistake.
I hope u are kidding?Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
First off tommy morrison is a self confessed steroid cheat:
Morrison on how steroids helped him:
"I wouldn't have gone as far as I did, I guarantee you that. I probably would have fought as a cruiserweight. When I was in training, if I didn't have that extra fifteen to twenty pounds, I would have fought there. I always had the power and the speed, I just needed the endurance, which was my problem."
He wouldn't get passed todays much more stringent testing, especially riddled with the amounts he used to use!
Morrison would go with the first decent punch wlad connected with! Even the younger, more susceptible wlad would probably take him out quick...Morrison is not on wlad's level!
U keep mentioning lewis, It's the first and last defense in the haters arsenal. Without any real contribution to the topic at hand u have posted twice pontificating the greatness of lennox lewis! That suggest's more about u than it does about the topic at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Wlad did much better against there common opponents and was willing to fight ppl lewis avoided i.e byrd and sanders so dont be so cock sure. I posted the lewis pics because a post implied lewis was a cut above, untouchable! When in reality he wasn't (even younger wlad was capable of doing anything mcall and rahman could!) He was in retreat mode for 12 rounds vs tua, bruno was outjabbing him mercer just did a no. on him! Even steward admitted he was unsure that lewis won before the decision was read out!
Prime wlad vs lewis is a 50/50 fight and vitali vs lewis (barring injuries) goes to the wire...I think u will find Vitali was winning on the scorecards and the fight was stopped by a cut correct? I also believe lewis was asked by the WBC to honour his rematch and he retired forthwith after never giving any indication of doing so prior to this point! Lewis relinquished all his belts this time rather than the IBF one LOL. I saw no superiority on lewis' part in that fight at all, cut's happen.
I think ppl feel threatened by what the klitschkos represent so they re-hash a fight that happened a decade ago on 11 days notice (which i have always found to be strange considering no one ever really brings up i.e oliver mcall when talking about lennox lewis!). A fighter's entire career should be taken into consideration not one loss, I think vitali became a much smarter fighter with age anyway...
Get used to them because they are the first of many...Borders open (approximately in the year 2000) and Eastern-Europeans enter the arena! Within a decade Americans lose all their titles to Eastern-Europeans. And then they go on and produce 2 linear champs too...
Chris byrd beats most of lewis' opponents let alone wlad! If u disagree then give me 5 who would beat him.
I think u will find it was a response to a post that implied lewis was some untouchable monster!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The thread topic is not debating chins or lewis v wlad.
Lewis was lucky mercer was out of shape u mean! Mercer was badly out of shape! He was 238 lbs!Quote:
Its lucky he underestimated them
He weighed 228 for holmes, holy and wlad.
Lewis never beats mercer decisively, that fight proved that!
Out of shape mercer beat lenny up! The crowd knew who won.
In fact tua was out of shape at 245lbs too. He weighed 233 for byrd, 224lbs for rahman and 226lbs for ike!
I mean did lewis ever fight anyone who wasn't old, short notice or in shape?? LOL.
"The Klitschko's would be difficult to beat in any era".....who said that? 'Iron' Mike Tyson said that, that's who!
At first I thought you were just stupid Philosopher but now you must be taking the piss, Foreman is the hardest punching heavyweight champion of all time. Weight is not always the factor to punching hard, it is about timing, technique, speed, accuracy and power. To compare 3 common opponents when Foreman was old and out of his prime just shows how self obsessed and ignorant you are for your love of Wlad. Do you even think about what you write on the forum? Foreman has also said he would never fight Lewis as he would beat him, George is just being polite and so was Tyson.
I think its more than the klitskos dominance that you adore..its the fact they are beating american fighters. Be real.
I think its more than the klitskos dominance that you adore..its the fact they are beating american fighters. Keep it real.
Lewis beat Mercer, get over it, whether it was close or not he won. The crowd were from the US they would say there man won. Lewis would beat Wlad and there is nothing you can say about his victory over Vitali, his stronger bigger brother. No one is saying Lewis was an indestructible monster but he would beat Wlad. If a 50 year old Holyfield is still considering fighting as shot as he is, does that not tell you how crap the heavyweight division is currently?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHERU keep mentioning lewis, It's the first and last defense in the haters arsenal. Without any real contribution to the topic at hand u have posted twice pontificating the greatness of lennox lewis! That suggest's more about u than it does about the topic at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Wlad did much better against there common opponents and was willing to fight ppl lewis avoided i.e byrd and sanders so dont be so cock sure. I posted the lewis pics because a post implied lewis was a cut above, untouchable! When in reality he wasn't (even younger wlad was capable of doing anything mcall and rahman could!) He was in retreat mode for 12 rounds vs tua, bruno was outjabbing him mercer just did a no. on him! Even steward admitted he was unsure that lewis won before the decision was read out!
Prime wlad vs lewis is a 50/50 fight and vitali vs lewis (barring injuries) goes to the wire...I think u will find Vitali was winning on the scorecards and the fight was stopped by a cut correct? I also believe lewis was asked by the WBC to honour his rematch and he retired forthwith after never giving any indication of doing so prior to this point! Lewis relinquished all his belts this time rather than the IBF one LOL. I saw no superiority on lewis' part in that fight at all, cut's happen.
I think ppl feel threatened by what the klitschkos represent so they re-hash a fight that happened a decade ago on 11 days notice (which i have always found to be strange considering no one ever really brings up i.e oliver mcall when talking about lennox lewis!). A fighter's entire career should be taken into consideration not one loss, I think vitali became a much smarter fighter with age anyway...
Get used to them because they are the first of many...Borders open (approximately in the year 2000) and Eastern-Europeans enter the arena! Within a decade Americans lose all their titles to Eastern-Europeans. And then they go on and produce 2 linear champs too...
Chris byrd beats most of lewis' opponents let alone wlad! If u disagree then give me 5 who would beat him.
Sorry. Double post.
#1 Lewis vs Mercer is an erroneous fight because by the time Ray fought Wlad, Ray was not what he once was (not that it would have mattered)...and it doesn't matter who brought it up, it's erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
#2 The big issues surrounding Vitali vs Lewis is that it's often overlooked that BOTH fighters stepped into the ring not prepared for who they were facing. Lewis was to fight Kirk Johnson and Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell. No one is to say with 100% certainty how the fight ends when both are 100% prepared or if a flukey cut doesn't happen to stop the fight.
#3 Nobody can say that Lewis would 100% beat Wladimir....at a certain point in time say after the Sanders or Brewster fights MAYBE it's close, but before then or prime v prime that's a much harder fight to call, it's a much tougher fight for Lennox Lewis than you would care to admit because Wlad has since developed tools that would make life tough for Lennox.
#4 Evander Holyfield might be fighting, but he's not ranked, he's not getting a title shot, and once again it's a moot point as Wlad & Vitali can only fight who is available in this era and they can't wave a magic wand to get better opponents.
That's just stupidity on Lewis partQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYeah cuz they weren't really trying to hit him, huh? It just sort of happened. Lucky punches? Come the fuck on. No such thing in Boxing. They in the ring to punch. Punch they did. And Lewis couldn't take the punch. How is it luck?Quote:
Originally Posted by impThose losses were avenged and lucky punches that would have knocked out any heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
All im saying is lennox was a cut above the brothers but this is the brothers era and they are the best.
Its lucky he underestimated them.
That's an excellent point that rarely gets mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 Lewis vs Mercer is an erroneous fight because by the time Ray fought Wlad, Ray was not what he once was (not that it would have mattered)...and it doesn't matter who brought it up, it's erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
#2 The big issues surrounding Vitali vs Lewis is that it's often overlooked that BOTH fighters stepped into the ring not prepared for who they were facing. Lewis was to fight Kirk Johnson and Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell. No one is to say with 100% certainty how the fight ends when both are 100% prepared or if a flukey cut doesn't happen to stop the fight.
#3 Nobody can say that Lewis would 100% beat Wladimir....at a certain point in time say after the Sanders or Brewster fights MAYBE it's close, but before then or prime v prime that's a much harder fight to call, it's a much tougher fight for Lennox Lewis than you would care to admit because Wlad has since developed tools that would make life tough for Lennox.
#4 Evander Holyfield might be fighting, but he's not ranked, he's not getting a title shot, and once again it's a moot point as Wlad & Vitali can only fight who is available in this era and they can't wave a magic wand to get better opponents.
Philosopher - Out of interest, why do you post on a DISCUSSION forum when you have no interest in discussing?
You know I can’t help the fact that my witness to the sport is what I have witnessed since the mid sixties and the empirical impressions drawn from them. People make this big deal about nutrition, science blablabla and yet this new improved version fights once or twice a year. The comparison premise is flawed. Catchweights and all this bullshit and no real unification since Hopkins. Manny/Floyd not happening is a testimony on the difference.
Advanced my ass. Bunch of spoiled brat millionaires.
Mike Tyson also said he had a broken back.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Your point being?Quote:
Originally Posted by onoMike Tyson also said he had a broken back.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Mike tyson also said he was innocentQuote:
Originally Posted by onoMike Tyson also said he had a broken back.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
He still says he is innocentQuote:
Originally Posted by impMike tyson also said he was innocentQuote:
Originally Posted by onoMike Tyson also said he had a broken back.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I think Lewis was more affected than Vitali, Lewis came in I believe at a career heaviest and had to deliver on the promotion so had a lot of distraction. When that happens to Lewis he loses, when he is focused he wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat's an excellent point that rarely gets mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 Lewis vs Mercer is an erroneous fight because by the time Ray fought Wlad, Ray was not what he once was (not that it would have mattered)...and it doesn't matter who brought it up, it's erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
#2 The big issues surrounding Vitali vs Lewis is that it's often overlooked that BOTH fighters stepped into the ring not prepared for who they were facing. Lewis was to fight Kirk Johnson and Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell. No one is to say with 100% certainty how the fight ends when both are 100% prepared or if a flukey cut doesn't happen to stop the fight.
#3 Nobody can say that Lewis would 100% beat Wladimir....at a certain point in time say after the Sanders or Brewster fights MAYBE it's close, but before then or prime v prime that's a much harder fight to call, it's a much tougher fight for Lennox Lewis than you would care to admit because Wlad has since developed tools that would make life tough for Lennox.
#4 Evander Holyfield might be fighting, but he's not ranked, he's not getting a title shot, and once again it's a moot point as Wlad & Vitali can only fight who is available in this era and they can't wave a magic wand to get better opponents.
I just think if Andreas Kotelnik was allowed to fight at 140, weighing 170, with a 5 inch reach advantage, against a division of over weight and out of shape Vivian Harris's, he too would dominate.
:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Yeah, I know how you feel. Sometimes it comes accross to me that way too.
There's a GIGANTIC leap up in competition to go from Cedric Boswell to Lennox Lewis....that's huge. as for the weight issue, it's the champion's job to train like a champion for every fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
That's 2 insults on 2 different threads now, anyone who has to open there posts with an insult immediately loses any credibility.Quote:
At first I thought you were just stupid Philosopher but now you must be taking the piss,
Only an idiot would buy that statement!Quote:
Foreman is the hardest punching heavyweight champion of all time.
More so than u, clearly!Quote:
Do you even think about what you write on the forum?
Prime George Foreman (median weight 217 lbs).
P4p he probably hits harder but saying he is the greatest punching HW ever is silly!
Tyson, Lewis, Tua, Wlad etc Are all clearly more devastating punchers, u are basing foremans power on his brutalisations of frazier, Note he didn't ko frazier either! Joe would be the smallest HW operating today (also note that fraziers chin was cracked by oscar bonavena too!) We never saw the best Joe Frazier against Foreman aswell IMO. After Ali I, Frazier never was the same. Health issues and lack of desire. Would we say Tyson's lack of focus against Douglas doesn't matter? Try to be consistant! Foreman really wasn't well regarded until his surprise upset of Frazier.
Even comparing foreman to Lewis, Tyson, Wlad, Tua's power etc is just silly! U could argue that even the likes of gerry cooney hit harder!
IMO Anybody who argues "What makes you think that Wladimir could withstand a fight with Foreman?" should completely revert that question into "What makes you think that Foreman could withstand a fight against Wladimir Klitschko?", especially since Foreman was wobbled, knocked down or even knocked out by featherfists (Michael Moorer, Jimmy Young!)
I consider George Foreman to be one the best heavyweight of the Golden Age of (what-they-called-then) Heavyweight. Wladimir Klitschko (at his best) would probably KO Foreman due to Foreman's lack of footwork and somewhat mediocre championship performance.
manny stewards views on Wladimir’s punching power:
“What makes him really special also is he has so much power in the late rounds. A lot of guys, great punchers like (Mike) Tyson, they were great in the early rounds but very seldom in the late rounds. Wladimir has knocked out guys like he did with Chris Byrd, and (Ray) Austin, and Eliseo Castillo—he knocked those guys out early because he threw a punch early, an early power punch. And then he’s had the power to go out after being down three times with Sam Peter and he had him out on his feet in the twelfth round of a very grueling fight with one single punch, a left hook. Then he knocked out Thompson. With Tony Thompson he ran across the ring and threw one straight right hand in the eleventh round and just walked away, and Thompson went down totally finished. Now he knocks out this guy in the twelfth round with ten or twelve seconds left with one punch. To have a fighter that has that kind of devastating one punch clean knockout power is so much stress on the opponent because you’re never safe.”
OK, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with your assessment of George Foreman. I'm a huge Wladimir Klitschko fan, I think he's as talented as any other heavyweight in the history of the sport.....but to knock Foreman who at age 45 beat Michael Moorer (who was by no means "feather fisted") is ridiculous. George Foreman was just a freak of boxing, his rise to glory is LEGEN-wait for it-DARY....he had only been boxing for 1 year when he won Olympic Gold...1 year. Big George was a monster in the ring and could punch extremely hard. Remember when Big George beat Frazier, Smokin' Joe was the undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and had just beat the seemingly invincible Ali....took George all of 2 rounds to dispatch of Frazier.
Frazier prepared for the first Foreman fight by touring with a funk band.
Fraizer II-fought smarter but physically totally shot after Manilla.
"Frazier plans to resume his singing career soon on a European tour with his band"
Why do you think Frazier took so much time off after the Ali fight and came back overweight? Health problems and he was living the good life, he was also already pondering retirement.
Just looking to stir this shit up...
P.S Joe frazier is smaller than Mormeck!
Why do u drag ppl's relatives into a boxing debate when losing an argument with phrases like 'I came on your mothers back'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
http://www.building-supplies-online....ml-18424-p.jpg
So Frazier is "smaller than Mormeck" do you think that means Mormeck would beat Joe in a fight prime vs prime??? If size was all that mattered Nicolay Valuev would have been dominant for a loooong time, but that wasn't the case was it???Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
George Foreman is a legend and to not see that is beyond crazy, Joe Frazier also a legend, to not see that is crazy. Listen people were smaller in days gone by this has been explained by advances in healthcare, training, and nutrition.
Philosopher is obsessed with size and weight not about skill, technique, accuracy and natural power which is what punching power is about.
Think he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Or Foreman's lack of power.....when you can KO over 80% of the fighters you beat and when you're 45 and can KO the heavyweight champion of the world then IMO you've got some pop. Maybe if George was from Eastern Europe he'd get some props :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliThink he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Master