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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
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In this very thread @
THE PHILOSOPHER is claiming Solis is better than Briggs and Rahman. Wlad has never even fought Solis, so if he is such a worthy challenger, then surely the no.1 of this era would have fought him? No but his brother did. Just like Wlad fought Haye but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Adamek but Wlad didn't. Wlad fought Chagaev but Vitali didn't. Vitali fought Arreola but Wlad didn't.
I never stated Wlad has fought Solis! I only mentioned him when other posters brought VK into the thread discussion.
And yes Solis is way better than Briggs ever was.
The point is - you mentioned Solis as a good win for this era, however, the supposed no.1 didn't beat him his brother did.
The division has been diluted.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
I suggest 27 and only with a ref that supports clinching.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I suggest 27 and only with a ref that supports clinching.
this is very true
following the rules wlad would have lost his title long ago
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Phil,
No one on this forum seems to put Wlad in the top ten.
vitali would always be better but what does that really tell you?
The brothers are great guys and good champions but unfortunately not as fantastic as you make out.
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Wlad has every advantage against every heavyweight today but still cant come across with any balls in the ring.
He has a bit of audley blood with frank bruno style fighting with a hint of goloto.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Wlad has every advantage against every heavyweight today but still cant come across with any balls in the ring.
He has a bit of audley blood with frank bruno style fighting with a hint of goloto.
@imp - frankly, Wlad and his brother as very comparable to Floyd Mayweather. I just don't see their competition as being that great. Thus, it's impossible to rank them all-time-great-level high. I can't put them in the top ten, but there's an argument for a top twenty spot. We'll never know how Wladimir would have fared against a prime Jack Sharkey or a prime Floyd Patterson. One thing I will say for Wladimir is that there hasn't been someone I've wanted him to face that he didn't eventually face, at least recently.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Wlad has every advantage against every heavyweight today but still cant come across with any balls in the ring.
He has a bit of audley blood with frank bruno style fighting with a hint of goloto.
Wladimir has a style that might bore, but it's effective. People have made that same claim for defensive fighters since the days of Gene Tunney.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
its effective against the mediocrity both brothers have faced since 2000. true.
Does anyone really think Jack Johnson or Joe Louis or Jack Dempsey for cryin out loud wouldnt utterly SMOKE these faggots in a few rounds?
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It will always be effective against this era.
Floyd and wlad are both defensive fighters but have completely different ways/traits of boxing.
Chalk and cheese.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Phil,
No one on this forum seems to put Wlad in the top ten.
vitali would always be better but what does that really tell you?
The brothers are great guys and good champions but unfortunately not as fantastic as you make out.
i dissagree on a few points
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
No one on this forum seems to put Wlad in the top ten.
there are a few that do including me, i would say top 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
vitali would always be better but what does that really tell you?
im not sure that is true anymore, peak for peak i think it would be a very close fight, i even slightly favour wlad now
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
The brothers are great guys and good champions but unfortunately not as fantastic as you make out.
they arent great guys, they have ruined the HW division with their slave contracts, never fighting out of germany, spoiling tactics, dodgy refs and extremely boring personalites
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
its effective against the mediocrity both brothers have faced since 2000. true.
Does anyone really think Jack Johnson or Joe Louis or Jack Dempsey for cryin out loud wouldnt utterly SMOKE these faggots in a few rounds?
No way. At the very least, there is no way to know because they haven't been tested. But now we're talking about literally the all-time best heavyweights. The question to ask is how would they fare against top 25 guys, like Max Baer, Gene Tunney, Ken Norton etc.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
@brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
Dempsey was loved so much that they believe that Tunney only won because Jack got old. Also Tunney fought one other defence and retired. No legacy as champion.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Would any of the 30 fighters below have lost to anybody that either Wlad or Vitali beat?
MUHAMMAD ALI TOMMY MORRISON TIM WITHERSPOON SONNY LISTON SAM LANGFORD ROCKY MARCIANO RIDDICK BOWE RAY MERCER MIKE TYSON MICHAEL SPINKS MAXIE ROSENBLOOM MAX SCHMELING MAX BAER LENNOX LEWIS LARRY HOLMES KEN NORTON JOE LOUIS JOE FRAZIER JIMMY BIVINS JERSEY JOE WALCOT JACK JOHNSON JACK DEMPSEY HARRY WILLS HAROLD JOHNSON GEORGE FOREMAN GENE TUNNEY FLOYD PATTERSON EZZARD CHARLES EVANDER HOLYFIELD ARCHIE MOORE
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
MAXIE ROSENBLOOM ? who was that Big H?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Well to start Big h Max is not that great of a heavywieght lost to lesser fighters. Gene Tunny not even a heavyweight by today standards and have problem with there size how many fights have you seen of him by the way. Patterson had no chin and lost to alot heavyweights not all of them great and his best weight was lhw. Jack johnson have no chance at all he lost to a lot of no bodys as well back in the early 1900s. Walcott was beaten by lesser fighters as well and Charles best weight was lhw not heavyweight. Spinks got gifts vs Holmes and best win is fucking washed up Cooney. Max Bear don't make me laugh sames goes for Moore best thing at lhw not hw i think your just hatting i can agree with the some of the fighters you posted like Holmes, Ali, Holyfield and Lennox still not sure about the old old fighters that we seen like none of though.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
I have tried hating the Klit brothers but I can’t. They are good and articulate guys who actually are tidying up the division from the dross that is there. Otherwise we will get poor champions. They probably do load the contracts in their favour when they can but they have fought in US and would come to England if necessary. They are in control of their careers and should be saluted for that.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Would any of the 30 fighters below have lost to anybody that either Wlad or Vitali beat?
MUHAMMAD ALI TOMMY MORRISON TIM WITHERSPOON SONNY LISTON SAM LANGFORD ROCKY MARCIANO RIDDICK BOWE RAY MERCER MIKE TYSON MICHAEL SPINKS MAXIE ROSENBLOOM MAX SCHMELING MAX BAER LENNOX LEWIS LARRY HOLMES KEN NORTON JOE LOUIS JOE FRAZIER JIMMY BIVINS JERSEY JOE WALCOT JACK JOHNSON JACK DEMPSEY HARRY WILLS HAROLD JOHNSON GEORGE FOREMAN GENE TUNNEY FLOYD PATTERSON EZZARD CHARLES EVANDER HOLYFIELD ARCHIE MOORE
Tommy Morrison? Tim Witherspoon? Ray Mercer? Any other straws you fancy clutching at?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
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Originally Posted by
BIG H
Would any of the 30 fighters below have lost to anybody that either Wlad or Vitali beat?
MUHAMMAD ALI TOMMY MORRISON TIM WITHERSPOON SONNY LISTON SAM LANGFORD ROCKY MARCIANO RIDDICK BOWE RAY MERCER MIKE TYSON MICHAEL SPINKS MAXIE ROSENBLOOM MAX SCHMELING MAX BAER LENNOX LEWIS LARRY HOLMES KEN NORTON JOE LOUIS JOE FRAZIER JIMMY BIVINS JERSEY JOE WALCOT JACK JOHNSON JACK DEMPSEY HARRY WILLS HAROLD JOHNSON GEORGE FOREMAN GENE TUNNEY FLOYD PATTERSON EZZARD CHARLES EVANDER HOLYFIELD ARCHIE MOORE
Tommy Morrison? Tim Witherspoon? Ray Mercer? Any other straws you fancy clutching at?
Big H said their opponents not the brothers themselves.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Yea that is what i dont get Big H is bringing up really old fighters with like no footage of then fighters that would not even be heavyweights today. I understand some of the fighters but then he just stretching it.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Would any of the 30 fighters below have lost to anybody that either Wlad or Vitali beat?
MUHAMMAD ALI TOMMY MORRISON TIM WITHERSPOON SONNY LISTON SAM LANGFORD ROCKY MARCIANO RIDDICK BOWE RAY MERCER MIKE TYSON MICHAEL SPINKS MAXIE ROSENBLOOM MAX SCHMELING MAX BAER LENNOX LEWIS LARRY HOLMES KEN NORTON JOE LOUIS JOE FRAZIER JIMMY BIVINS JERSEY JOE WALCOT JACK JOHNSON JACK DEMPSEY HARRY WILLS HAROLD JOHNSON GEORGE FOREMAN GENE TUNNEY FLOYD PATTERSON EZZARD CHARLES EVANDER HOLYFIELD ARCHIE MOORE
Tommy Morrison? Tim Witherspoon? Ray Mercer? Any other straws you fancy clutching at?
Who that either Klit has beaten, would those 3 guys not also have beaten?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Would any of the 30 fighters below have lost to anybody that either Wlad or Vitali beat?
MUHAMMAD ALI TOMMY MORRISON TIM WITHERSPOON SONNY LISTON SAM LANGFORD ROCKY MARCIANO RIDDICK BOWE RAY MERCER MIKE TYSON MICHAEL SPINKS MAXIE ROSENBLOOM MAX SCHMELING MAX BAER LENNOX LEWIS LARRY HOLMES KEN NORTON JOE LOUIS JOE FRAZIER JIMMY BIVINS JERSEY JOE WALCOT JACK JOHNSON JACK DEMPSEY HARRY WILLS HAROLD JOHNSON GEORGE FOREMAN GENE TUNNEY FLOYD PATTERSON EZZARD CHARLES EVANDER HOLYFIELD ARCHIE MOORE
Tommy Morrison? Tim Witherspoon? Ray Mercer? Any other straws you fancy clutching at?
Big H said their opponents not the brothers themselves.
I can read, but I'd say Haye and, Byrd beat all three. I'd pick Arreola to beat Morrison, who couldn't get past Purrity that Vitali stopped.
How many of Holmes opponents would beat the guys above? Or Marciano's?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
This is a shit era but I think the Klits (ridculous tag team partnership :rolleyes:) would have beat loads of "great" heavyweights.
Even David Haye would have been 50/50 with lots of the smaller "greats."
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Well the fighters he mention Like Max, Patterson, Morrison and Bear lost to nobodies in there own eras. The others he named were great lhw and never did anything at hw really. And the others are so old he does not even know how good they are. If you look at Jack Johnson record he lost to people we don't even know about. I think people today would do just fine against people form early eras just on size alone i mean some of the earlier guys were not even fucking heavyweights by today standards just a dumb thing to say.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
This is a shit era but I think the Klits (ridculous tag team partnership :rolleyes:) would have beat loads of "great" heavyweights.
Even David Haye would have been 50/50 with lots of the smaller "greats."
Haye is dogshit!
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Well what about Bryde then Big h don't think he could beat them. Because in his prime Bryde was pretty damn good heavyweight and Wlad destroyed him with out even trying really.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well what about Bryde then Big h don't think he could beat them. Because in his prime Bryde was pretty damn good heavyweight and Wlad destroyed him with out even trying really.
I think the 3 mentioned would all brutalize Byrd!
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
This is a shit era but I think the Klits (ridculous tag team partnership :rolleyes:) would have beat loads of "great" heavyweights.
Even David Haye would have been 50/50 with lots of the smaller "greats."
Haye is dogshit!
You're the one throwing Tommy Morrison in the mix. Why not chuck in Michael Bentt too?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well what about Bryde then Big h don't think he could beat them. Because in his prime Bryde was pretty damn good heavyweight and Wlad destroyed him with out even trying really.
I think the 3 mentioned would all brutalize Byrd!
Like Tua did?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
This is a shit era but I think the Klits (ridculous tag team partnership :rolleyes:) would have beat loads of "great" heavyweights.
Even David Haye would have been 50/50 with lots of the smaller "greats."
Haye is dogshit!
You're the one throwing Tommy Morrison in the mix. Why not chuck in Michael Bentt too?
Morrison was chinny, but he wasn't Dogshit!
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobthepen
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well what about Bryde then Big h don't think he could beat them. Because in his prime Bryde was pretty damn good heavyweight and Wlad destroyed him with out even trying really.
I think the 3 mentioned would all brutalize Byrd!
Like Tua did?
I'll give Byrd credit for that, it's his best win!
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Well then i think you a just hater on the brothers and people in this era. Its not the greatest but the fighters in the mention in your post were not great and lost to worst fighters then Haye or Bryde.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well then i think you a just hater on the brothers and people in this era. Its not the greatest but the fighters in the mention in your post were not great and lost to worst fighters then Haye or Bryde.
To the contrary, I really like the brothers and have constantly said "It's not their fault who was available to fight them" and "They could be the greatest 2 HWs ever, we just don't know how good they are because their era was sooo bad"
This era is the worst in my lifetime and the worst since the 50s imo
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
This is a shit era but I think the Klits (ridculous tag team partnership :rolleyes:) would have beat loads of "great" heavyweights.
Even David Haye would have been 50/50 with lots of the smaller "greats."
Haye is dogshit!
Yeah that maybe so, but I still reckon he'd have a chance against the small fighters from the past, he'd actually be bigger than some, and there's a good chance he irons out modern guys like Morrison
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
Dempsey was loved so much that they believe that Tunney only won because Jack got old. Also Tunney fought one other defence and retired. No legacy as champion.
Marciano only beat an old Louis and Jersey Joe though, right? A win over Dempsey, albeit an old one, still should be valuable in ranking.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Phil,
No one on this forum seems to put Wlad in the top ten.
A top 10 is meaningless and subjective and ultimately proves nothing....
U have your opinions i have mine.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
Dempsey was loved so much that they believe that Tunney only won because Jack got old. Also Tunney fought one other defence and retired. No legacy as champion.
Marciano only beat an old Louis and Jersey Joe though, right? A win over Dempsey, albeit an old one, still should be valuable in ranking.
Marciano had a lot more defences of the title and Tunney retired after 2.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
Dempsey was loved so much that they believe that Tunney only won because Jack got old. Also Tunney fought one other defence and retired. No legacy as champion.
Marciano only beat an old Louis and Jersey Joe though, right? A win over Dempsey, albeit an old one, still should be valuable in ranking.
Marciano had a lot more defences of the title and Tunney retired after 2.
Against whom? The K-Bros have a lot of defenses too, but again, against whom?
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Ok ran how do you think Gene Tunney would do with today's heavyweights i think he would get crushed. As for his ranking many people rank him as a lhw not a hw because his best wins were there.
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Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
brocktonblockbust - question for you. Can you explain why Gene Tunney isn't ranked higher on the all-time list when he beat Dempsey twice?
Dempsey was loved so much that they believe that Tunney only won because Jack got old. Also Tunney fought one other defence and retired. No legacy as champion.
Marciano only beat an old Louis and Jersey Joe though, right? A win over Dempsey, albeit an old one, still should be valuable in ranking.
Marciano had a lot more defences of the title and Tunney retired after 2.
Against whom? The K-Bros have a lot of defenses too, but again, against whom?
Archie Moore was just coming into his prime at 38 believe it or not. Archie was at his best game at the time he fought Marciano. Archie himself said he never trained better nor felt better for any fight than that one against Marciano. Archie was pushing and pushing for that fight for months and months and was a 1-Man Show Self-Promoting Machine, writing letters to everyone and anyone who could get the fight to happen. He publicly stated that Marciano was afraid of him and that Marciano "could not hit him with the right hand." He was very confident of victory and said the day before the fight to Don Dunphy that Marciano's skills were amateurish and that Marciano didn't even know how to feint. etc....Archie Moore went on after fighting Marciano to have about 25 more fights and held onto the Title Belt for many more title defenses. He fought until 1965 I believe. It is seriously hard to swallow that Archie Moore was a piece of crap at the time he fought Rocky Marciano.
Ezzard Charles was only 31 years old in their first fight and 32 in their second fight. Yes he had gone through many wars, blah blah bah, but he was not old. By no means. A young strong alltime great he was in both fights with Rocky.
Roland La Starza was a boxing wizard who really almost beat Rocky in their first fight if Rock hadnt knocked him down for the extra point system they were using at that time in case of a split decision or draw. La Starza was actually younger than Marciano and a big strong guy with outstanding boxing skills.
Don Cockell---the British Heavyweight Champion. Is that now an honor and a status that means absolutely shite? Ol' Don outweighed Rocky by some 25 pounds. That alone is an enormous weight for Rocky to try to rock around the ring with his punches, and yet he surely did it. Cockell was a tough guy, I dont want anybody denigrating him here. Don Cockell was an upstanding guy and a good boxer with some unique moves, and had a really REALLY good chin. Not a fighter to take lightly unless you think YOU could be British HW Champion. Cockell was also younger than Rocky.
OK Joe Walcott was on his way out for sure but nothing about being 38 should have stopped him in the FIRST ROUND of the FIRST FIGHT from finishing off poor "amateurish" Rocky. He had marciano down and out in the first minute of the fight. Hammering jolting shots with both hands which lifted little Rocky off the ground. Watch the fucking videos. That fight should have been like Foreman-Frazier One. No reason for Rocky to take that amount of cruel punishment to the head and body in the first 6 minutes of the fight and hope to have anything left to try and finish the fight let alone win it. In the 10th round Marcinao got hit with 2 heart punches that were so brutal that Don Dunphy claims he heard several people in the first row gasp. Also after the beating Walcott gave Marciano in the 12th round, several people yelled to the referee to stop the fight. Dunphy said he he "did not think from (his) experience that Marciano would be able to come out for the 13th round."
Are you saying if Walcott had been younger he woulda nailed Marciano with even more and more shots than he already did and Rocky would have stayed down? Yeah, OK :rolleyes:
