So the Danes made first trip through the Northwest Passage. Any guess on the cargo?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Andre

Global warming is not a good name for it. Probably be much more productive to call it 'climate change' as in the climate that was once north has moved even further south, south of the equator. Same happening to the far north too I hear.

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Ah yes, the "catch all" of "Anthropogenic Climate Change" if it gets "too hot" then CLIMATE CHANGE, if it gets "too cold" then CLIMATE CHANGE, if a hurricane happens CLIMATE CHANGE if no hurricanes happen then CLIMATE CHANGE if there are more tornados or less tornados then CLIMATE CHANGE......do you guys not see that? Too much rain, too little rain, more wind, less wind, more ice, less ice, under the guise of Climate Change whatever happens we're at fault no matter if things change or they stay the same....it's a SCAM to perpetuate a false crisis to line the pockets of people like Al Gore.

Here's a conundrum for you Climate Change types....if humans COULD control the climate, if they could.........SHOULD they control the climate?

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Its no conundrum mate we need to manage what we do and aim for balance within nature not control of it or others through it!

Same thing goes for oil really, would you pull the oil out of hot motor? Would you pull the oil out of a hot planet that has plates that grind together?
Do you know in New Zealand every time there is seismic activity in Greece they get it too down there in the same area, happens every time its no coincidence everything has connections some strong some not so strong but its all connected.

We change alot of things in degrees here,we have striped the Earth of trees and put grass and cows down instead, that is massive,Hello that in itself has had change effects on climate it is indisputable.

Its obvious we changed rain fall patterns, total air conditions and flows by doing it.

Even raw pollution can be seen in the air above every city (It is so fucking obvious that is us doing it). We suffer cancers on mass, again hello its us.

For me that is all so obvious that we do have our effects on the changes.You strip the earth of trees and allow China to continue into rainforests etc you disrupt the balance of nature and it spreads out from there.

The argument should be percentage and management not have we or havent we contributed.

I see your point totally, but it isnt one sided, both sides on the extremes are guilty of what you point out and both seek their cash cow at our expense.

As there are up and running businesses on both sides that have their own future invested in large sums of cash in both arguments; they will both pay scientists to find for their own side. $$$$$$ is all it is.

Again balance is the key. Taking sides isnt, the rip off we get to pay for from both sides extremes is intolerable to normal common sense and wastes all of our time.

Having read the articles, I don't find myself being persuaded against the consensus. I think Andre has pointed out the obvious changes in the past few centuries and it is unbdoubtedly changes that have been caused by man. Deforestation leads to the formation of deserts, excessive cars in the cities leads to smog, these are obvious aspects of ecological and environmental change. The bigger picture is where I am not an expert and will never claim to be, but it all seems to point to the human population explosion and massive consumption of energy (oil and coal) as being the most probable causes of change. Now this is not set in stone or absolute, but why would you play a lottery with the future of your children, when it is just common sense to lead a cleaner more positive life. Who wants to live in the smog drenched rat race cities? For financial reasons most don't have a choice, so why not at least have clean cities, breathable air etc. It just seems incredibly selfish to resist change when there are obvious harmful affects on the quality of life. Nobody is arguing Lyle's ridiculous argument of living in primitive societies again, but to just clean up our act. Actions do have consequences and yes you do have responsibilities.

Again: If humans COULD control the climate, SHOULD they?

Answers please, and also don't twist or change the meaning of the question it's a simple "Yes" or "Non" and then reasons why you think that

YES.

Lyle we do change the climate! What do you mean should we,if we can?

Is this your thoughts trying to corral us into a one sided political plan again?

We have come so far on the planet that we have concrete and cities in place of trees, of course we change and have changed the fucking thing!

Now we have to balance what we are doing which is changing somethings that are detrimental to us back to a more natural way before we turn the lot into a choking shit hole like some smog filled concrete jungles we call cities.

Mate even the bees dont exist in China any more they are gone!!! It was from; (what science can make out) over use of chemicals on crops that weakened their immune systems to a natural bug they used to be able to fight off naturally!
Thats us again mate, we changed the nature on bees!

Now the Chinese get up ladders in their fruit crops and hand pollinate the flowers one by one.

So fucking YES we have to try to change some of it back a little bit now!

BALANCE MANAGEMENT !!!

Man its so simple it isnt this way or that way only! Those extremists on both sides are making excuses up to fight each other cause thats their political bent and so its their life, none of the mouths help out the real middle problem, they waste their energy and our cash on fighting each other.

Interesting article. The report referenced is linked below it.

Climate Study: Evidence Leans Against Human-Caused Global Warming

Climate Change Reconsidered

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Originally Posted by Andre

YES.

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Once upon a time Andre, man tried to help wildlife population by killing off wolves. We killed scores of wolves and we found out that wolves are a key part of the environment which help control overpopulation, spread of disease, starvation, amongst other animals.

MAN fucks up is my point Andre, God does not. If this Earth is only meant to house us for X amount of time we either have to A) Accept that fate or B ) Use our brains to help us survive here or elsewhere...but for humans to change the climate to suit their own needs, I think that's incredibly egotistical and shortsighted as other species will suffer and die DUE to our intervention and if we truly care about the EARTH then we'll let it do what it needs to do and in the end as George Carlin said, it'll shake off humanity like a case of fleas.