What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

if Ali was around today fighting using the same training techniques and diet and that sort of thing they used yesteryear then he probably wouldnt be anywhere near the force he was

if he had the benefits of todays diet / training techniques then who knows he might be the hw champ again

he might also be a couple of inchest taller and have more muscle and hit harder, but you can only compare using the competition of their time

thing is, i truely believe that ali would be the HW champ nowadays because he definately has the skills to be somewhere near the very top and his personality would always generate lots and lots of money

klit is only still champ because he generates lots and lots of money, they wont let him lose to the point of cheating hurrendously in every fight

ali would generate lots of money and because of that he would have a massive helping hand along the way (perhaps not to the level of help that the klit gets tho)

They both ended up being stinkers of champions Eric lol.

I think you'll find that the stamina of todays boxers is far better in terms of their VO2max and it can be directly measured. Because of not only the size but the explosive training done these days that was not in the past though they tend to fight in bursts of high energy punches rather than sustained tippy tap type shots. Were a current fighter to throw shots like Ali they'd no doubt sustain it much longer. But he would get walked through imo.

Ibeabuchi and Tua were modern boxers and they broke the record for punches thrown in a HW fight. And they weighed 240lbs, Ike was pure muscle and Tua was muscle and fat. Neither looked anywhere near as puffed as Frazier and Ali.

We can agree to disagree power puncher it's ok, I respect your opinion and it's fine for you to have it I'm obviously not changing your mind either, I just want to point out that it is you guys who make the outrageous claim that fighters from 50 years ago would take it to todays guys and then try to say that I don't have evidence. The burden of proof should be on you.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

They both ended up being stinkers of champions Eric lol.

I think you'll find that the stamina of todays boxers is far better in terms of their VO2max and it can be directly measured. Because of not only the size but the explosive training done these days that was not in the past though they tend to fight in bursts of high energy punches rather than sustained tippy tap type shots. Were a current fighter to throw shots like Ali they'd no doubt sustain it much longer. But he would get walked through imo.

Ibeabuchi and Tua were modern boxers and they broke the record for punches thrown in a HW fight. And they weighed 240lbs, Ike was pure muscle and Tua was muscle and fat. Neither looked anywhere near as puffed as Frazier and Ali.

We can agree to disagree power puncher it's ok, I respect your opinion and it's fine for you to have it I'm obviously not changing your mind either, I just want to point out that it is you guys who make the outrageous claim that fighters from 50 years ago would take it to todays guys and then try to say that I don't have evidence. The burden of proof should be on you.

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i completely agree that if you picked ali out of the 70s or 60s or whatever when he was in tip top condition and put him in with a fighter of today who utilizes the advanced training methods and diets then ali would struggle

if ali had those benefits it would be a different story

yes the ali of that period would be one of todays cruiserweights but people are getting bigger so he would probably still have grown into a HW of todays standards

and i wasnt around during alis time to fully appreciate his reign and whether it was as good as it is remembered or not

the biggest problem i have with the argument is that its such a huge myth that techniques now are better than they used to be. boxing is a finesse sport. you cant just think you are the biggest, baddest person in the room and then beat everyone at boxing. it doesnt work that way. joe louis proved that size doesnt matter by beating multiple people way bigger than him. i guess that i understand what strength is and isnt. read about jim jeffries in the late 1800s and eatly 1900s. he would work as a boiler maker all day then train after that. his daily routine would have definitely been too hard to handle for these fat and lazy HWs today. even stories of his strength are amazing. there have always been strong people in the world. modern techniques dont change that fact.

did you know that shorter arms can give more leverage on a punch? that is why guys like marciano, frazier, and tyson could hit so hard. punching power is a technique that has been around forever. there isnt any greater advancement on that than there has been for decades. i just dont understand why these fighters now would hit so much harder than the fighters in the past. there is absolutely no evidence to prove it.

holyfield came up from cruiserweight and could KO some of his opponents and could take their punches. yet, all of the fighters older than the 90's that were the size of holyfield couldnt do the same? it just doesnt make any sense. holyfield could not have been that much more advanced than a larry holmes. i mean, what is the difference between spinks beating holmes and holyfield beating all the HWs he beat? for holyfield, you would say that he was just good. for spinks, you say that it was because holmes was a bum compared to fighters now and lost to a cruiserweight.

i would be willing to change my mind if there was hard evidence. for example, if you could compare punching power or speed or strength. i just dont think that its possible though. and without that hard evidence, i cant believe that fighters today are just all around better.

Maxpower your theories are bullshit ....

On July 4, 1919, Dempsey and World Heavyweight Champion Jess Willard met at Toledo, Ohio, for the world title. Some knowledgeable observers such as Benny Leonard predicted a victory for Dempsey against the vastly larger champion; many called the fight a modern David and Goliath. In the event Willard was knocked down seven times—all in the first round—although it should be remembered that rules at the time permitted standing almost over a knocked-down opponent and hitting him again as soon as both knees had left the canvas. Willard's corner would not let him answer the bell for the fourth round. He was widely reported to have suffered a broken jaw, broken ribs, several broken teeth and a number of deep fractures to his facial bones.


Dempsey was a TINY Heavyweight (14 stone mark) and used to smash bigger fighters to pieces with ease.

Well with your example of Holyfield that is easy to see. Holyfield was in fact the very first to incorporate a "modern training regime". His methods were considered radical, yet now they are common place. What's more when you look at Spinks, he was incredibly weak chin wise (Tyson KO1), as soon as he faced a puncher who could land on him properly unlike Conney he was finished. Except Holyfield has a thick solid heads and slabs of muscle. That's the difference, his chin is sound.

David Haye is an example of how modern training has enabled him to carry his power from CW up to HW!

As far as Holyfields power goes he was somewhat punch weak at HW and really wasn't a complete power puncher even at CW. His KOratio against HW's is something around 30 odd% which is telling and most of his KO's came in later rounds too.

Yeah shorter arms I believe can deliver more power "in closer" than a taller guy trying to throw shorter shots, it's the torque they can better generate, particularly in hooks and uppercuts. But the taller guys produce better power out long, especially with their straight shots. Since the outside game has become more important in modern boxing there is the reason why we are seeing more basketball sized boxers now.

Taking your Joe Louis analogy, that is a bit silly. Joe Louis was bigger than anything better and better than anything bigger. You see for a start, like Ali, Louis outweighed most of his opponents, over 80%! The ones who were larger like Buddy Baer, Ade Simon and Primo Carnera were absolute oafs! The Nicolay Valuevs of the 30's HW division except far smaller. Back in Louis's day there were no superheavyweights with the correct balance or skills. Today the big guys and the technicians are the same people! It is not easy to develop the balance and dexterity for boxing when you are 6'5"+ and 240lbs+, it requires maniacal training.

You keep calling modern opponents fat. Ali was fat, Holmes was fat, Foreman got fat, Frazier was chubby even in his "prime". Who is fat today? or recently at top level? Chris Arreola? He's getting fit again now. Sam Peter? Sure but when he fought Klit he was chiselled like a bodybuilder. Hell they even called Lennox Lewis fat when he came in 5lbs heavier than usual for his fight against Vitali! There is a massive exaggeration of the fat levels today which are frankly no worse than yesterday.

All pro boxers must train hard and long, otherwise they would get their head punched in.

You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think fighters train harder now than in the past. The talent today is poor, they may have the size but they do not have the skill, heart and quality. of the champions in the past.

Mate we can see the modern guys training on YouTube for Christ sake! It's you who live in a fantasy land.

Oh right so all other sportsmen and athletes train harder than ever but pro boxers can't be bothered training anymore and just eat cheeseburgers instead. Do you really believe what you are saying? That's one of the things you have been brainwashed to say by the old time nutbags with a vested interest in rubbishing the present and glorifying the past.

Today they really are "professional boxers". In the past they sometimes worked a days work and then hit the gym. Today, their job, from the time they get up to the time they go to bed it to train and prepare to fight. They have camps that completely systematise their training, sleep and diet to maximize their performance. If you think a bit of sparring after work, a few dozen rounds on the heavy bag, a skip and a jog and a dozen sets of push ups and situps are better than that you are crazy!

Yesterdays athletes were professional boxers in the sense that they received payment for their fights and at top level they may not have worked (depending on how far back you go). But they were not "professional athletes" as we would describe them today.

Look at a football player from 1970, skinny, a bit of a pot belly, maybe even smoking a cigarette at half time instead of eating an orange. It's the same analogy with boxing. It's a joke!

There's no comparison between the skills of today and those of yesterday. Wladimir and Floyd show dominance the world has never seen before, like Lewis and Oscar before them.

And the best is yet to come I'm sure of it!

Smoke some more crack with your buddy Rob Ford @Max Power

P4P the old fighters would wipe the floor with the fat assed steroid using new ones!

You keep going on about P4P. What are you saying? Are you implying that Ray Robinson could solve the Mayweather puzzle or something? Please don't get me started there! That is a complete proof of how much better today's champs are. Mayweather would make Robinson look "completely" stupid! And everybody knows it!

So much for your P4P argument!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

You keep going on about P4P. What are you saying? Are you implying that Ray Robinson could solve the Mayweather puzzle or something? Please don't get me started there! That is a complete proof of how much better today's champs are. Mayweather would make Robinson look "completely" stupid! And everybody knows it!

So much for your P4P argument!

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your whole argument is based on now versus then... now they're bigger stronger and better. if we equal the playing field by giving the fighters of yesteryear the same advantages that today's fighters have ie: nutrition, scientific training and steroids the old ones would destroy the new ones. pretty much everyone agrees with this but you.

you are a moron who just needs attention. i think you need either a girlfriend or boyfriend to pay you some attention.

Maxpower is a troll people...a wind up merchant who I 100% Guarantee is an existing member under a different name (I got a rough idea who ) ;)
I've already blown his bullshit theory out of the water by mentioning what the 'tiny' Jack Dempsey achieved time and time against bigger fighters.
Something he has no answer for/to and conveniently chose to ignore lt , strange for someone with an answer to every other post ;-)
Much like Ross he's a wanker.
Stop taking the bait and wise up people ;)

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Originally Posted by smashup

Maxpower is a troll people...a wind up merchant who I 100% Guarantee is an existing member under a different name (I got a rough idea who ) ;)
I've already blown his bullshit theory out of the water by mentioning what the 'tiny' Jack Dempsey achieved time and time against bigger fighters.
Something he has no answer for/to and conveniently chose to ignore lt , strange for someone with an answer to every other post ;-)
Much like Ross he's a wanker.
Stop taking the bait and wise up people ;)

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Who you think it is? I say it's that fag Preme

@smashup

Stand down nutbag!

I'll did not overlook your post and you must know I would not be the first guy to claim that Dempsey's career was all smoke and mirrors. Sometimes even this "no-lifer" has to do other things you know!! :) lol

I'm no more of a troll you guys are when you post rubbish contrary to the ideas I'm putting forward. You might call me a "counter-troll" even!

loser

Alright, sit your asses down nutbags!

Let's compare your giant slayer with a modern fighter about the same size who was never considered a big whacker in modern times, Holyfield, the original modern trained boxer.

Holyfield dropped Bert Cooper and Mike Tyson with body shots... both 215-220 Lbs. at the time and just under 6'. Both big punchers. One an all-time great.

At CW he stopped Qawi (Foreman and Holyfield were the only 2 that stopped him, gave M. Spinks a tough fight), Ocasio, Tillman, DeLeon, and others. These guys had to cut down to make 190 Lbs... pretty big HWs in Dempsey's day. At HW Holyfield knocked out Tillis, Thomas, Dokes, Rodrigues, Stewart, Douglas, Cooper, Czyz, Tyson, Moorer, and others. None of these guys were small. He dropped Bowe, Mercer, Oquendo, Savarese, and others. He rocked Foreman, Lewis, Ruiz, Rahman, and others. He punched plenty hard compared to Dempsey for a modern featherfist.

Dempsey stopped a big and clumsy, 37 1/2 year old, part-time fighter named Jess Willard. Well, he really wasn't part-time but he turned pro in 1911 and retired in 1923... he had 34 pro fights. Willard went 25-7-2 (20) overall and 2-1 (1) in HW World Title fights. He beat Carl Morris W10, Jack Johnson (KO26), and Frank Moran W10. He was stopped 3 times.

Dempsey fouled Sharkey repeatedly prior to stopping him in the 7th... the fouls set up the stoppage. Dempsey and Jim Flynn took turns stopping each other in the 1st round... both fights may have been fixed. Firpo knocked Dempsey out of the ring prior to getting stopped in the 2nd. He failed to stop Meehan in 5 fights... Meehan went 2-1-2 vs. Dempsey. He fought Gunboat Smith and Carl Morris twice each... both went the distance the first time they fought Dempsey. He beat some guys who were considered good in those days like Battling Levinsky (who couldn't break wind with his best punch), Bill Brennan, Billy Miske, Georges Carpentier (who was small even at LHW), and Tommy Gibbons (W15) among others.

Dempsey wouldn't be able to hurt Holyfield. Holyfield would be able to hurt Dempsey. Holyfield is stronger, more durable, and the better boxer.

Jack Dempsey stopped like 2 or 3 bigger guys in a nutshell who were crap! And so much for that example! Your failing gentlemen. Would you'se all like to buy a bridge I'm selling? :D

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Alright, sit your asses down nutbags!

Let's compare your giant slayer with a modern fighter about the same size who was never considered a big whacker in modern times, Holyfield, the original modern trained boxer.

Holyfield dropped Bert Cooper and Mike Tyson with body shots... both 215-220 Lbs. at the time and just under 6'. Both big punchers. One an all-time great.

At CW he stopped Qawi (Foreman and Holyfield were the only 2 that stopped him, gave M. Spinks a tough fight), Ocasio, Tillman, DeLeon, and others. These guys had to cut down to make 190 Lbs... pretty big HWs in Dempsey's day. At HW Holyfield knocked out Tillis, Thomas, Dokes, Rodrigues, Stewart, Douglas, Cooper, Czyz, Tyson, Moorer, and others. None of these guys were small. He dropped Bowe, Mercer, Oquendo, Savarese, and others. He rocked Foreman, Lewis, Ruiz, Rahman, and others. He punched plenty hard compared to Dempsey for a modern featherfist.

Dempsey stopped a big and clumsy, 37 1/2 year old, part-time fighter named Jess Willard. Well, he really wasn't part-time but he turned pro in 1911 and retired in 1923... he had 34 pro fights. Willard went 25-7-2 (20) overall and 2-1 (1) in HW World Title fights. He beat Carl Morris W10, Jack Johnson (KO26), and Frank Moran W10. He was stopped 3 times.

Dempsey fouled Sharkey repeatedly prior to stopping him in the 7th... the fouls set up the stoppage. Dempsey and Jim Flynn took turns stopping each other in the 1st round... both fights may have been fixed. Firpo knocked Dempsey out of the ring prior to getting stopped in the 2nd. He failed to stop Meehan in 5 fights... Meehan went 2-1-2 vs. Dempsey. He fought Gunboat Smith and Carl Morris twice each... both went the distance the first time they fought Dempsey. He beat some guys who were considered good in those days like Battling Levinsky (who couldn't break wind with his best punch), Bill Brennan, Billy Miske, Georges Carpentier (who was small even at LHW), and Tommy Gibbons (W15) among others.

Dempsey wouldn't be able to hurt Holyfield. Holyfield would be able to hurt Dempsey. Holyfield is stronger, more durable, and the better boxer.

Jack Dempsey stopped like 2 or 3 bigger guys in a nutshell who were crap! And so much for that example! Your failing gentlemen. Would you'se all like to buy a bridge I'm selling? :D

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Blah Blah Blah..... Moron.

By now realisation must be kicking in for you all. I know it's hard when something you've believed in for so long... Turns out to be a big lie ;) But don't blame me I'm just delivering the news. It's the media and so called "boxing historians" with vested interests who like to carry on the idea that everything was golden in the past and today is weak. That story has been in circulation for a hundred years (the current era is crap, boxing is dying). The difference today is there is now a large group of people like me who have woken up BEFORE the era is way in the past enough to be considered a good era and viewing things for how they really are and not how we have been brainwashed to think they are!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

By now realisation must be kicking in for you all. I know it's hard when something you've believed in for so long... Turns out to be a big lie ;) But don't blame me I'm just delivering the news. It's the media and so called "boxing historians" with vested interests who like to carry on the idea that everything was golden in the past and today is weak. That story has been in circulation for a hundred years (the current era is crap, boxing is dying). The difference today is there is now a large group of people like me who have woken up BEFORE the era is way in the past enough to be considered a good era and viewing things for how they really are and not how we have been brainwashed to think they are!

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suddenly i see your point... its all so clear to me now. i get it! your powers of persuasion have overcome my fear of change. overcome all the years of brainwashing... all the years of just believing, believing for no reason. i'm cured! i feel so good inside to know the truth. finally the truth!!!!!!

you're an idiot.

did you really say that holmes, ali, and frazier were fat? haha! although most of your arguments arent good, i can at least see where you are coming from. then you throw in something completely insane that proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. haha.

i can sum up your argument very quickly. any fighter from the past that was big was an oaf. any fighter now that is big is good. any fighter from that past that was a small HW would get destroyed because HWs are bigger today. any fighter today that comes up to HW from a smaller weight class and is successful is good.

so you created an argument for yourself that you cant lose because the argument doesnt apply equally to old fighters and current fighters. is this correct?

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Originally Posted by imp

Just a current example (cant believe im saying this) but Manny pac is probably the smallest welterweight but he probably hits the hardest..(i like to believe its ped free)

Same can be said for Tyson.

Size doesnt always matter. (In boxing)

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Both of those guys hit all out on the move and get full weight and momentum behind their shots.

Are people retarded? Anyone can make the arguments max makes. All you have to do is watchthe fighters and make up your own mind. I think the Klits are great in any era. Outside that no one would beat a prime foreman, Fraizer, Ali etc. I don't believe Fury, Haye, Chisora, Arreola, Stiverne, Poverkin, Pulev, are the all time greats max believes them to be

Dempsey stood 6'¾" (185 cm). In his era, the average man stood 5'7" (170 cm) in the 19-teens and 1920s.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...mpsey_0101.jpg

Kind of implying Bradlee, that size did in fact matter even for Dempsey... But I do not wish to focus on size as an argument for anything as guys here to jump on that p4p thing immediately and nullify that argument. From the pic you provided you can see instantly that Dempsey has strong arms and shoulders but at his core he looks nothing like a modern boxer and you can tell that training regimes were way different back then.

Dempsey was one of those fighters who was not a "professional" athlete as we view them today. He worked a hard days work before hitting the gym.

There is far too much tolerance in the boxing world for the OTN... ("Old Time Nutbag").

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I don't believe Fury, Haye, Chisora, Arreola, Stiverne, Poverkin, Pulev, are the all time greats max believes them to be

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Define "greatness". I don't think these guys are "all time greats" at all, atleast not yet. But that would not prevent them from KOing someone who is an ATG!

As for their abilities, try watching their fights against other opponents not named Klitschko (the ones that fought them anyway).

Looking at David Haye just for example- his chin is not the most solid, that much is conceded. He is not the biggest HW, that is obvious (yet he is exactly the size of Ali who was considered THEN abig HW).

Many people are bagging David Haye on his performance against Klitschko which amounted really to not taking enough chances against an opponent who could have knocked him out and as a result his work rate being nowhere near enough to win. Yet Haye's fights with other boxers reveal he is an enormously skilled and highly slick fighter of vast potential who would pose problems for any HW, even the top ones, of the 70's or before. You cannot watch the performance and fail to recognise this.

Sometimes when old fighters are criticised you guys like to bring up that the skill differences are "subtle" and not readily seen by laymen like myself who watch boxing in the dark. Well I can say the same about the way you view a boxer like Chris Arreola whom I know is more skilled than given credit for.. It's the "little things" he does that may go unnoticed that make the difference.

I think modern boxing is being viewed by rose coloured glasses sometimes.

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Kind of implying Bradlee, that size did in fact matter even for Dempsey... But I do not wish to focus on size as an argument for anything as guys here to jump on that p4p thing immediately and nullify that argument.

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No. Dempsey was very much an average-sized Heavyweight in his era.

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... but at his core he looks nothing like a modern boxer

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The modern Heavyweight core is fat, flabby bellies (Wladimir excluded). :)

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From the pic you provided you can see instantly that Dempsey has strong arms and shoulders but at his core he looks nothing like a modern boxer and you can tell that training regimes were way different back then.
Dempsey was one of those fighters who was not a "professional" athlete as we view them today. He worked a hard days work before hitting the gym.

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Nonsense.
Fighters today do the same workout as fighters did in the 19-teens, 100 years ago.
In Dempsey's era, Boxing had already been around for a few centuries under different rule sets, but the workouts had already evolved and solidified into the modern boxing workout over a century ago. In the 1880s and earlier, there were Boxing gyms in every major city where fighters and other men and boys looking to learn self-defense would go to train.
Even the order of the exercises is the same:

Boxing Workout
Early morning: Roadwork.
First a stretch, then a run anywhere from 3 to 10 miles mixing in some shadowboxing and sprints.

Afternoon: Gym Workout.
Stretch and warm-up
Shadow Boxing
Sparring
Heavy bag
Speed bag and/or double-end bag
Focus Mitts
Jump rope
Stomach exercises - sit-ups, leg raises, medicine ball.
Calisthenics - pushups, neck bridges, chins, grip work, dips, wall pulleys(thera stretchy bands today), throwing medicine ball, old timers chopped wood whereas nowadays they use a sledgehammer on a tire.

Each part done by rds.
Massage at end.

Maybe some handball in the evening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ngkuQEgwyM

^ Very good clip here of some of the Greatest Heavyweight Champs in History.
First half focuses on the very similar training they undertook.

.
http://www.oldschoolboxing.com/userf...cs/charley.jpg


Where are the advances and changes that some of you young $#!t-snaps are talking about?

Weights? Not many boxers lift weights.
Lighter weight fighters don't want to add any mass or they'll be over their weight class.
If Heavies add too much mass, it'll impede their endurance.
Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Schmeling, Johnson, they all were naturally over 200 lbs, but they trained themselves so fine and lean because they needed the speed and the endurance for 15 rds or more.

Two significant differences I see is that boxers nowadays don't include wrestling in their training anymore the way boxers did up until the mid 1940s. And of course, chemicals nowadays. Hell, chemicals are even in the food we eat nowadays. A century ago, food was much more wholesome and healthy without poisonous pesticides, hormones, steroids, and vaccines in the animals, and genetically-modified plant-matter.

Shouldn't there be critical advances by now? Shouldn't there be a better way after over a century of "evolution" in gloved boxing?
After all, it's happened in all the other sports.
Is this timewarp good or bad?

The Boxing Workout remains unquestionably the same after 100 years; there is no difference in the training regime.

Honestly Bradlee I appreciate your reply, you have listed exercises some of which are still staples for a boxer, a few of which are no longer and/or were not in common place then.

But overall I'm afraid I virtually disagree with all else.

There has certainly been improvements or "changes" if you'd prefer to call them that in a modern boxers regime for one.

-Olden days boxers done much distance work where as it has been shown today that intervals provide the correct fitness for the sport and distance work has little relevance (i.e. the early morning jog may remain or may not be used at all and is simply now a warm up. Previously it was the principle cardio developer).

-The focus mitt was not extensively used as today and certainly not in as elaborate a fashion. Today it represents the next most important thing and something a boxer can do far more of than sparring and fighting to develop their skills and in some aspects it is a superior method for developing their skills as they can perfect technique and accuracy under relaxed conditions.

-The double end bag is the next most important tool and can be used even more often but the speed ball has been proven virtually useless for the preparation of a boxer and its regular practice translates to no actual aspect of boxing. As soon as you learn to time it, it becomes shoulder endurance. When you see a modern boxer doing this on media day it is for show.

-Plyometrics and weight training have contrary to your opinion been incorporated into the preparation of every boxer today, not just heavies. You can see their preparation on You Tube which are now filmed extensively, there can be no argument.

-Training is periodised today as in all major sports usually flowing from a strength and power oriented phase to a speed and skills and conditioning one producing a superior final product for battle over the hit and miss training of yore.

-Shadow boxing whilst good for balance and training to miss and handspeed and imaginary situations has been curbed in intensity and now regarded more of a warm up as rapid shadow boxing can strain shoulder blade/upper spine muscles and hyper extend the elbows

-Diets have improved greatly, a boxer applies the modern advancements not available in olden days to their diets and eats what they need to eat in order to maximise their performance. Protein shakes and supplements have nourished athletes much better today. Former days boxers like Dempsey existed on very poor diets sometimes.

-Sports medicine and recovery methods have improved dramatically, there's no question enabling atletes to train harder for longer, more frequently and with better injury management/prevention.

I could go on forever.

On Dempsey and his friends you think they trained so hard they got down so fine? BS. Dempsey looks soft at the core. The main thing I notice when I see a picture of a previous HW like Dempsey or Louis is that their bodies are not as hard as modern fighters.

To the point that modern HW's are fat at the core, there are SOME fighters like this as there were in every other era. In previous eras even the CHAMPS were fat. Today the champs are lean and 6 packed and SOME of their oppoennts are chubby. For every chubby HW you point out to me I can show you one who looks like a ripped body builder with more muscle and less body fat than Dempsey or any fighter of his era! Another important point is that even if a fighter is fat today it is a result normally that calories are in excess of usage, but their training is still maximised and doesn't affect their stamina (unless grossly obese in which case I agree they have not trained) and underneath their core strength is far higher than Dempey's who was not built in this department.

You made one point about Dempsey I cannot dispute. He was an average sized HW of his day... And he stopped a few bigger... very average opponents without controversy. His entire career was smoke and mirrors and nobody of that era would have any relevance whatsoever in professional boxing today.

What next are ya gonna try to tell me? Something about the mayweather family's tremendous knowledge of modern food science and nutrition?! C'mon, it's Kool-aid and Mcdonalds for lil Floyd, baby!

Floyd Mayweather is a flamboyant personality that does his part for the media. When you see Mayweather cruising around looking for a burger joint prior to his fight with Canelo for example- this is his way of making a statement for the public and a psychological game for Canelo that you have to remain starved and weak for another 2 days to make weight whilst I can relax, eat whatever I want and come fight night it wont make any difference, I'm still going to kick your ass!

What you have to realise is that behind the scenes of what you see on the cameras, Mayweather is a very dedicated fighter who trains very hard around the clock, not fooling around what you are shown on TV, and his team would have a dietician hired to cater to his requirements whether he is moving up or down to maximize his energy like every other top level boxer today. His dad and uncle would not be in charge of something like that. And I think his dietician is introduced in a Mayweather documentary. A pretty lady by no small coincidence lol. I don't think that diet consists of Kool-Aid and McDonalds very often!

WladKlit is a bitch with a chin of china who needs big bro to fight his battles :eek:

Didn't Wladdy beat up Rahman for Vitali who he apparently sent into retirement hiding for a few years before the big bad Rock was no longer a threat to him? Score settled, the brothers are even :)

If you swallow that sort of nonsense at all! Neither Klitschko or Lennox Lewis have ever ducked anybody in reality.

Again, who exactly has wasted Klitschko in a chin related manner?

1 opponent... Corrie Sanders- a 6'4" 225lb very fast aggressive southpaw power puncher.

Additionally who caught Wlad with a big shot while his head was sandwiched between Sander's own head and his fist (watch in slow). Where additionally Wlad got up several times.

This is not SO bad!

WladKlit got dropped by nobodies :D he is a sorry excuse for a boxer :-\ he even shows clips off great champs at his fights so people in attendance know what greatness is. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Kind of implying Bradlee, that size did in fact matter even for Dempsey... But I do not wish to focus on size as an argument for anything as guys here to jump on that p4p thing immediately and nullify that argument. From the pic you provided you can see instantly that Dempsey has strong arms and shoulders but at his core he looks nothing like a modern boxer and you can tell that training regimes were way different back then.

Dempsey was one of those fighters who was not a "professional" athlete as we view them today. He worked a hard days work before hitting the gym.

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im surprised that since you admitted to being a personal trainer (or something to that effect) in the other thread, that you would even make an argument like that. its one of those ignorant arguments that people make where the more chizzeled somebody is, the better they are. ken norton would do very well now then.

anyways, nowadays we train a lot to make bodies look more chizzeled even though it doesnt really matter. i can name great athletes that dont have that look at all but still excelled. the looks dont matter. its only the practicality of the training that matters. so you basing anything off of looks unless its blatantly obvious that they are way overweight, is a bad argument.

@ bradlee dont try to tell max power that the training was mainly the same back then as now because he wont believe it. oops, too late. haha.

the thing that people wont admit is that every person in the world is different. some learn better in some ways than others and some metabolize some foods better than some. i know about all of these things that say that if you eat this or that and train exactly this way then its like magic and you will be great. although i agree to an extent, i also believe a lot of it is a placebo effect. i guarantee that if you switched the training regimes from now to back then, fighters wouldnt be much different.

Just imagine the old time fighters with a 6-8 week training camp :p

just imagine if max power got hugged as a child...

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

just imagine if max power got hugged as a child...

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Just imagine









































Max Power :p

Quote:

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im surprised that since you admitted to being a personal trainer (or something to that effect) in the other thread, that you would even make an argument like that. its one of those ignorant arguments that people make where the more chizzeled somebody is, the better they are. ken norton would do very well now then.

anyways, nowadays we train a lot to make bodies look more chizzeled even though it doesnt really matter. i can name great athletes that dont have that look at all but still excelled. the looks dont matter. its only the practicality of the training that matters. so you basing anything off of looks unless its blatantly obvious that they are way overweight, is a bad argument.

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@powerpuncher

Now I don't care about the rest of the blather above but you just hold it right there! I want you to have me on record here right now that I do not place much credit on what you look like at all in regards to boxing, especially HW boxing!

In fact and you can quote me.. At HW there is no reason why having a little bit of fat is detrimental to your performance. In fact although fat is added weight with no strength benefit to carry around, muscle weight also slows one down. An equivalent amount of muscle weight on the arms might even slow you down more than the equal amount of weight on the tummy because of the way it's distributed. And more muscles mean faster metabolism which at peak performance may actually make a boxer gas faster than even his equal weight but more chubby opponent! Now I'm not implying that being a fat ass is desirable for boxing either but within reason at HW it is not such a bad thing, nor is it a sign of undertraining (unless you are James Toney or something akin).

The ONLY reason I made the former statement is because Bradley tried to say that Dempsey and his peers trained so hard they fined their way down so low and were more lean than modern fighters, which on average is just not true at all. In fact it is one of the differences immediately apparent by looking at the different eras.

Don't try to turn this around and make it look like I promoted this train of thought!

As for modern training methods being same as olden days ones... Do I really need to answer that any further. Everybody must know that this is just complete rubbish!

What if the old timers had steroids, what if they had training camps, what if they had modern diet and nutrition, what if they were bigger... They are just that, what ifs! I've never been concerned with these questions. Were they taller, heavier, more athletic, better trained, had better diets etc they would BE modern fighters they would not BE who they actually were.

I have to laugh at Dempsey in that video above. His portion of the training revealed nothing modern whatsoever and did not exactly look like the thrashing machine to me.

Another amusing part is Foreman hitting the Heavybag- Sadler apparently told him to go for a run and punch the bag because his power was all he needed. First class training regime if I ever seen one! LOL