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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
If laws are being broken I would suggest dealing with them accordingly. Lawlessness is lawlessness.
I'm repeat to you and beans , for example the ones in park lane where sent home at cost to the taxpayer , within months the same people returned , so what do you think we should do with them ?
They are not the only ones.
Answer the question.
Ask them to move. If they don't then forcibly move them. What do you suggest Al?
You kind of miss the point of my question , you and beans are ok with the freedom to roam policy , these people have been removed at a cost , and have returned , they have no housing etc , so I ask someone who has tried to contradict my point of view , by asking you what would you do with these people.
Sorry if I'm being a little slow here. I really am trying to answer. If we are talking about them as currently illegal immigrants then I would remove them from the park and then deal with them through that process. If we are talking hypothetically like they are full EU nationals and thus allowed legally allowed to remain in the country I would deal with them in the same way that I would anybody. Remove, arrest, imprision if it came to that.
What is the alternative? What am I missing? As far as I can see the only way to deal with them outside the rule of our current laws is to withdraw from the EU.
So we have tried sending them back at huge cost , they returned , so let's look at your answer , imprison them ,hmmm. Ok our prisons are pretty full and that will be costly.
However we imprison them , after a time we have to release them , however they have no money to buy a house or no job , so what do we do then ?
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
If laws are being broken I would suggest dealing with them accordingly. Lawlessness is lawlessness.
I'm repeat to you and beans , for example the ones in park lane where sent home at cost to the taxpayer , within months the same people returned , so what do you think we should do with them ?
They are not the only ones.
Answer the question.
Ask them to move. If they don't then forcibly move them. What do you suggest Al?
You kind of miss the point of my question , you and beans are ok with the freedom to roam policy , these people have been removed at a cost , and have returned , they have no housing etc , so I ask someone who has tried to contradict my point of view , by asking you what would you do with these people.
Sorry if I'm being a little slow here. I really am trying to answer. If we are talking about them as currently illegal immigrants then I would remove them from the park and then deal with them through that process. If we are talking hypothetically like they are full EU nationals and thus allowed legally allowed to remain in the country I would deal with them in the same way that I would anybody. Remove, arrest, imprision if it came to that.
What is the alternative? What am I missing? As far as I can see the only way to deal with them outside the rule of our current laws is to withdraw from the EU.
So we have tried sending them back at huge cost , they returned , so let's look at your answer , imprison them ,hmmm. Ok our prisons are pretty full and that will be costly.
However we imprison them , after a time we have to release them , however they have no money to buy a house or no job , so what do we do then ?
The same as I would if they were British in that scenario. Give them the same opportunities. If they then resort to crime and would deal with them in accordance with British law. I'm not saying that that is great, or something ideal, but what is the alternative? Treating people like animals? What should we do with British repeat offenders?
Honestly, can you please tell me what you would do? I'm interested to know.
To not let them in in the first place will (when they become full EU members) mean withdrawing from the EU, which is something I disagree with vehemently for a number of reasons.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
I am not telling any lies, so quit with that gibberish. Again ad hominem...:rolleyes:
My issue is with the legal migration within the EU, and now Ryanman has expanded it, the illegal migration too. I am not happy with it and for reasons I have consistently supported. It is an unfair deal for obvious reasons that have been expressed.
You seem to like painting me as Tory boy when it suits you, but like Brockton I don't really fit any complete left or right divide. Sometimes I am very left, sometimes very right.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Miles you are with the majority of people on this subject and diametrically opposed to myself and Ryanman so man up and admit it. You are quintessentially conservative. So much so you are even against parenthood and think that every eventuality in life must be accounted for. That my friend is an impossibility. However much you save financially.
"With one behind you can not sit on two horses"
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.
Al it's understandable that you would have concerns. But honestly I don't think we'll have a flood of migrants coming over with their hands out. If I'm proven wrong then that will be sad for the country and the people coming over, but I really don't think it will have any meaningful negative impact on the lives of those of us already here. Let's look back in a year or two and I'm confident we'll see Farage's words as nothing more than fear mongering.
Some Romanians and Bulgarians will leave their countries. Most will head to Italy, France and Spain. Some will head to the UK. Of those many will bring skills and walk into jobs, others will be unskilled and take the unskilled jobs that are currently available that are not being taken by those currently in the dole queue. Some will claim benefits with a view to getting a job, and a very small number might claim benefits as a lifestyle choice (why you'd travel across Europe for that I'm not sure though!). Overall, I believe that the positive effect of the stimulus provided by new workers will pay for any additional benefits given out.
Also, even if its break even effect it's worth it in my opinion to live in an open, tolerant and decent society where people have compassion for fellow man.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.
I am sorry if I took what you said the wrong way and I accept your apology and offer mine for any offence caused. No I do not believe people should be able to come here and claim benefits with no intention of working either but unless we leave the EU we can not have different rules for Romania and Bulgaria simply because they have Romani Gypsies as part of their population.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Miles you are with the majority of people on this subject and diametrically opposed to myself and Ryanman so man up and admit it. You are quintessentially conservative. So much so you are even against parenthood and think that every eventuality in life must be accounted for. That my friend is an impossibility. However much you save financially.
"With one behind you can not sit on two horses"
No, I don't think so. On an issue like this, I mainly about British labour forces and they are being sold out. That's left wing. Right wing is being against other labour forces. I am against the monarchy, believe people shouldn't inherit wealth, taxes should be redistributed, minimum wages should be increased, etc. I am solidly left wing in those regards, but have my reactionary elements, and have no shame in that. It isn't all or nothing.
My views on parenthood are widely documented. I simply didn't enjoy growing up and want to put an end to the suffering in that chain of connections. It doesn't really reflect right or left though. It simply ticks the 'I abstain from the rat race' box. I have said grandiose things about it and think many would benefit from at least delaying parenthood, but it is just a personal choice. It goes against the grain, but one should.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.
I am sorry if I took what you said the wrong way and I accept your apology and offer mine for any offence caused. No I do not believe people should be able to come here and claim benefits with no intention of working either but unless we leave the EU we can not have different rules for Romania and Bulgaria simply because they have Romani Gypsies as part of their population.
Well I was saying personally I would close our borders to all, and sort out the country , get back on our feet etc , but we can agree to disagree I guess.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.
Are you saying they are not living in parks?
Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.
Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like
"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."
followed by
"Vote ukip"
which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?
There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.
Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?
Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.
Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.
Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.
I am sorry if I took what you said the wrong way and I accept your apology and offer mine for any offence caused.
No I do not believe people should be able to come here and claim benefits with no intention of working either but unless we leave the EU we can not have different rules for Romania and Bulgaria simply because they have Romani Gypsies as part of their population.
6 pages in a nutshell for me right there.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Breaking the quote tree.
The thing is, would closing our borders really help us get back on our feet?
I'm from a school of thought that thinks that if Britain was to become isolationalist then it would eventually revert from being the world's 6th largest economy to a small island, with a middling population and average resources. We would eventually, in a few generations become the nation we by rights should be (ie a lot less influential and thus wealthy). It is our connections and influence, borne thorugh the empire and multiple wars that give us the inflated position we have 'enjoyed' our the past 2 centuries. One of the primary ways this influence manifests itself is as a key member of the EU.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Breaking the quote tree.
The thing is, would closing our borders really help us get back on our feet?
I'm from a school of thought that thinks that if Britain was to become isolationalist then it would eventually revert from being the world's 6th largest economy to a small island, with a middling population and average resources. We would eventually, in a few generations become the nation we by rights should be (ie a lot less influential and thus wealthy). It is our connections and influence, borne thorugh the empire and multiple wars that give us the inflated position we have 'enjoyed' our the past 2 centuries. One of the primary ways this influence manifests itself is as a key member of the EU.
Well unless I have the discussion with Beanz and yourself face to face I'd rather leave it at this point as some of my comments have offended people , yes we disagree but that's life I guess.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
On the other side of the coin, how about Korea? Similar sized country, it controls immigration, and is world known for its manufacturing brands. Britain has become a police state, as Korea then was. Why not make the most of what you are and begin again as a police state. Nationalise all the nations utilities, free transport for all, and give British workers a job. Plus like Korea you could abolish the monarchy!
To be isolationist doesn't mean you don't trade, it just means that Eastern Europeans will always be ignored. Britain has been sold on the 'service' industry model which really just means that you don't make anything and just rip everyone off in services. In other words my 3 pound hair cut will cost 15 in England. My washing machine fixed for free is 50 quid in England. Really that took place because Britain sold itself on the nonsense of globalisation which really meant putting factories overseas and paying more for services.
Britain could start again and considering it can create the worlds most efficient spy technology, it can put that complete waste of time to good use in effective products. The brains have always been there.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
South Korea may not have an issue with gypsies but they do have miles....that can't be fun
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
I'm not exactly hilarious, but I don't fuck around in parks. I do a job, I pay my taxes, I invest money, I do all the things that Granny in the park really isn't. You want homeless people then open up Buckingham Palace. Seriously, why not? They asked to open up markets, then provide housing.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I'm not exactly hilarious, but I don't fuck around in parks. I do a job, I pay my taxes, I invest money, I do all the things that Granny in the park really isn't. You want homeless people then open up Buckingham Palace. Seriously, why not? They asked to open up markets, then provide housing.
I too have never done a poo in a park and furthermore I condemn those that do! It's really not on. That's something we can all agree on. ;D
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
you people are nutters. No country on earth wants any kind of immigrants sleeping in parks and defecating/urinating to ruin it for families who want to enjoy the parks on the weekends. Just because some lunatics mention Hitler doesnt mean we can demonize a whole party or Mr farage either. He certainly didnt say that Hitler should have killed anybody, that is going way too far in paranoia.
I personally think the UK shoudl leave the doomed EU Joke. I remember in 1989 doing my Masters, there was this mantra going around "EU '92" and people used to chant it. Never happened, came maybe 10 years late, and after 10 more years it has totally collapsed. The whole EU concept is a sham and a scam. It hasnt worked, they are trying to prop it up desperately, only making matters worse, the UK will be dragged down into the shit if it remains.
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How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.
Just to clear that up: They were dsmissed by the English that ran this place,it was against agreed practice between colonizing countries; that you couldnt just go in and take what wasnt yours.So you had to make a deal of some sorts. Nomadic Aboriginals in the main areas said "sure thing use the land as we do", it isnt a belonging. We cannot just deal mother earth away to one group":confused:. "We reap it for a season,burn it,cleanse it rejuvenate it then come back in 6 years or so and around we go again with the seasons."
This stumped the British who wanted ownership in return for blankets beads and usual bullshit. So they said these natives cant be reckoned with and promptly went to the bench and got a law passed classifying Aboriginals as flora and fauna (non human) so if required could be eradicated as such.
The drinking is a horror for them, (THEY SHOULD STOP ) it is killing them faster than whites who drink the same way). Similar to the American indians they have been quartered off into sections away from (well to do white folks who run the whole show) with no work available in those given sections no hope for advancements they are bored and turn to what ever they can turn to. They are of a different dna make up to us white devils and suffer worse horrors than we do when exposed to our bullshit.Maybe our diseases that killed a lot of the off weakened the few left :-\ not sure. But they cant cope with spirits in the liquid form like we can.Some will drink mentholated spirits too,so what does whitey do? Put a color and a poison in there thinking that will stop them :rolleyes:.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.
Beanz you need to calm down, you are going tooooo farrrrrr. A little self-control please. We all get upset about shit, but please, is this logical that worrying about waves of poor people (some of whom have committed enormous ATM crime in the UK recently) means that the next step is to gas them? That is nuts. YOu are going from Step 1 to Step 35 all in one step. That's the type of shit that Alex Jones does, he sees one little strand of something and he goes straight to the conclusion that such-and-such will happen because of this or that. Surely you can calm down a bit. IT IS VERY TYRANNICAL to accuse someone of being an Adolf Hitler. Wow. C'mon man. I'm a vegetarian and cannot even hurt a fly. Gassing people or dehumanizing them is pure evil and you should not imply that that is what I or Al or Miles are suggesting. Please come to your senses. @Greenbeanz @Dark Lord Al
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
This has nothing to do with prejudice on my part, GB. I am angry about America (as everybody should be) and I also don't give a hoot for the paralympics, but that has nothing to do with anything in this thread. My being married to someone and living successfully in a different culture also has nothing to do with this thread. I am against uncontrolled immigration for pragmatical social and economic reasons.
I have explained my point of view repeatedly, but it is you that express the Guardian reader point of view (which you accuse me of!). The typical Guardian reader is not on the same level as the tabloid media reader, the immigrants are largely coming after the jobs of the tabloid reader and of course they are angry and fearful. History says that they are right.
That's where I find it funny that you can accuse me of being a snob. I'm on the side of the ordinary English worker. He is being ripped off, ignored at the ballot box, and is desperate. If I was a true snob, I would say let them all in, as in truth, I have nothing to lose. I don't want that to be though.
I think the common concerns are correct ones and that the system is an elite tool to purposely cause social fragementation, and then you factor in Britain being a police state. Well, it all makes sense. There will be unrest, of course you need to control communications.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.
Poverty is relative though. If you are earning 6 times the Romanian minimum wage in the UK, you will make sacrifices that the English worker will say 'Bugger off' to. The English worker wouldn't go there to earn a sixth, and so it is a terrible equation. Poverty is poverty, but why should you need to reduce working class wages continually and that is all that unchecked immigration does.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.
Poverty is relative though. If you are earning 6 times the Romanian minimum wage in the UK, you will make sacrifices that the English worker will say 'Bugger off' to. The English worker wouldn't go there to earn a sixth, and so it is a terrible equation. Poverty is poverty, but why should you need to reduce working class wages continually and that is all that unchecked immigration does.
Very true Miles the thing is cheap labour, make this very attractive to employers, it's has happen
were I live, they have dropped there wages by up to £2 per hour the shit bags.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.
Poverty is relative though. If you are earning 6 times the Romanian minimum wage in the UK, you will make sacrifices that the English worker will say 'Bugger off' to. The English worker wouldn't go there to earn a sixth, and so it is a terrible equation. Poverty is poverty, but why should you need to reduce working class wages continually and that is all that unchecked immigration does.
Very true Miles the thing is cheap labour, make this very attractive to employers, it's has happen
were I live, they have dropped there wages by up to £2 per hour the shit bags.
If that has happened where you live, then that is evidence. With more countries on the way in then it means more competition and further wage reductions.
How does that help things, I don't know. Not enough housing, mortgages 3 times higher than wage increases, but for the poor wages in decline.
It's a horrible system, and really the UK needs to be out of the EU.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
This has nothing to do with prejudice on my part, GB. I am angry about America (as everybody should be) and I also don't give a hoot for the paralympics, but that has nothing to do with anything in this thread. My being married to someone and living successfully in a different culture also has nothing to do with this thread. I am against uncontrolled immigration for pragmatical social and economic reasons.
I have explained my point of view repeatedly, but it is you that express the Guardian reader point of view (which you accuse me of!). The typical Guardian reader is not on the same level as the tabloid media reader, the immigrants are largely coming after the jobs of the tabloid reader and of course they are angry and fearful. History says that they are right.
That's where I find it funny that you can accuse me of being a snob. I'm on the side of the ordinary English worker. He is being ripped off, ignored at the ballot box, and is desperate. If I was a true snob, I would say let them all in, as in truth, I have nothing to lose. I don't want that to be though.
I think the common concerns are correct ones and that the system is an elite tool to purposely cause social fragementation, and then you factor in Britain being a police state. Well, it all makes sense. There will be unrest, of course you need to control communications.
Miles you are such a square, your dopey sheep like following of fear mongering facists like Farrage makes that quite clear as do your many assumptions. I don't read the Guardian, I read the Times. If you really think that people choose a newspaper solely because the editorial slant matches their own personal politics then again you are acting like a snob. You don't care about working class people because you have never been one. How many factories have you worked in? How many building sites? Have you ever even dipped your toe into the relatively safe middle classed commune of a kibbutz or socialist work camp ? I know from experience that when you travel to another country you will at first be inclined to do many jobs that others would not but that is not the whole story. Does the fact the I have been willing to do agricultural work before in Italy mean that I was stealing a local persons job? What about working in Biggin Hill airport stores despite not being a Londoner and having to pitch a tent in the local woods to do so ? Was It my fault that local people didn't want to do the night shift? Was I stealing their Job?
You keep talking about uncontrolled immigration and illegal immigration, I am not suggesting either of those things is a good idea. There are already laws in place that mean immigrants caught sleeping rough get deported and are not allowed to return for a year. You have nothing to lose because you don't live here. Economic isolation would be terrible for this country and yet you would be happy to watch it stagnate from afar because it would increase your own fragile feeling of superiority which you remind us all of repeatedly.
Don't forget I have two kids both in their twenties and they have not found it easy to find work but they have and they both remark how a lot of their generation seem to feel that they have a sense of entitlement and are very lazy. I see students like at at University too but rarely are they foreign. When I left school and worked in a shoe factory the previous generation worked much harder than mine and although much of the work was unskilled they were able to earn fantastic money on a piece work system that rewarded their effort. That work ethic is often still their amongst Eastern Europeans whether they are dentists or plumbers. And yes the UK was desperately short of Dentists before many Polish turned up.
If anybody is being fragmentory and divisive it is well landed Politicians like Farrage. I have far more in common with My Lithuanian tattoo artist than I do with him, the Tories and the more reactionary tabloid reader that you have sided with.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.
Beanz you need to calm down, you are going tooooo farrrrrr. A little self-control please. We all get upset about shit, but please, is this logical that worrying about waves of poor people (some of whom have committed enormous ATM crime in the UK recently) means that the next step is to gas them? That is nuts. YOu are going from Step 1 to Step 35 all in one step. That's the type of shit that Alex Jones does, he sees one little strand of something and he goes straight to the conclusion that such-and-such will happen because of this or that. Surely you can calm down a bit. IT IS VERY TYRANNICAL to accuse someone of being an Adolf Hitler. Wow. C'mon man. I'm a vegetarian and cannot even hurt a fly. Gassing people or dehumanizing them is pure evil and you should not imply that that is what I or Al or Miles are suggesting. Please come to your senses. @
Greenbeanz @
Dark Lord Al
I never accused you of being like Adolf Hitler but it is quite amusing to be told by you that I am going too far. ;D Waves of poor people? :-\ Try to be rational and not just believe the propaganda that Farrage is feeding you. Remember he is a fictional character created by a comedian.
Nigel Farage ‘comic creation that got out of hand’
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.
Poverty is relative though. If you are earning 6 times the Romanian minimum wage in the UK, you will make sacrifices that the English worker will say 'Bugger off' to. The English worker wouldn't go there to earn a sixth, and so it is a terrible equation. Poverty is poverty, but why should you need to reduce working class wages continually and that is all that unchecked immigration does.
Very true Miles the thing is cheap labour, make this very attractive to employers, it's has happen
were I live, they have dropped there wages by up to £2 per hour the shit bags.
If that has happened where you live, then that is evidence. With more countries on the way in then it means more competition and further wage reductions.
How does that help things, I don't know. Not enough housing, mortgages 3 times higher than wage increases, but for the poor wages in decline.
It's a horrible system, and really the UK needs to be out of the EU.
Trouble is if we leave the EU, you think the Tory's would be in high glee, the working man would
get fucked over even more. We must remember workers rights ,the EU gives us protection with out
this we would be door mats.
The Tory's love cheap labour, the working man is a low life in there eyes, the eastern block labour
gives them there cheap work force, with wage bills coming down a case of the rich get richer, the
poor get fucked over, the elite few making millions, ever one else in poverty.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
This has nothing to do with prejudice on my part, GB. I am angry about America (as everybody should be) and I also don't give a hoot for the paralympics, but that has nothing to do with anything in this thread. My being married to someone and living successfully in a different culture also has nothing to do with this thread. I am against uncontrolled immigration for pragmatical social and economic reasons.
I have explained my point of view repeatedly, but it is you that express the Guardian reader point of view (which you accuse me of!). The typical Guardian reader is not on the same level as the tabloid media reader, the immigrants are largely coming after the jobs of the tabloid reader and of course they are angry and fearful. History says that they are right.
That's where I find it funny that you can accuse me of being a snob. I'm on the side of the ordinary English worker. He is being ripped off, ignored at the ballot box, and is desperate. If I was a true snob, I would say let them all in, as in truth, I have nothing to lose. I don't want that to be though.
I think the common concerns are correct ones and that the system is an elite tool to purposely cause social fragementation, and then you factor in Britain being a police state. Well, it all makes sense. There will be unrest, of course you need to control communications.
Miles you are such a square, your dopey sheep like following of fear mongering facists like Farrage makes that quite clear as do your many assumptions. I don't read the Guardian, I read the Times. If you really think that people choose a newspaper solely because the editorial slant matches their own personal politics then again you are acting like a snob. You don't care about working class people because you have never been one. How many factories have you worked in? How many building sites? Have you ever even dipped your toe into the relatively safe middle classed commune of a kibbutz or socialist work camp ? I know from experience that when you travel to another country you will at first be inclined to do many jobs that others would not but that is not the whole story. Does the fact the I have been willing to do agricultural work before in Italy mean that I was stealing a local persons job? What about working in Biggin Hill airport stores despite not being a Londoner and having to pitch a tent in the local woods to do so ? Was It my fault that local people didn't want to do the night shift? Was I stealing their Job?
You keep talking about uncontrolled immigration and illegal immigration, I am not suggesting either of those things is a good idea. There are already laws in place that mean immigrants caught sleeping rough get deported and are not allowed to return for a year. You have nothing to lose because you don't live here. Economic isolation would be terrible for this country and yet you would be happy to watch it stagnate from afar because it would increase your own fragile feeling of superiority which you remind us all of repeatedly.
Don't forget I have two kids both in their twenties and they have not found it easy to find work but they have and they both remark how a lot of their generation seem to feel that they have a sense of entitlement and are very lazy. I see students like at at University too but rarely are they foreign. When I left school and worked in a shoe factory the previous generation worked much harder than mine and although much of the work was unskilled they were able to earn fantastic money on a piece work system that rewarded their effort. That work ethic is often still their amongst Eastern Europeans whether they are dentists or plumbers. And yes the UK was desperately short of Dentists before many Polish turned up.
If anybody is being fragmentory and divisive it is well landed Politicians like Farrage. I have far more in common with My Lithuanian tattoo artist than I do with him, the Tories and the more reactionary tabloid reader that you have sided with.
Honestly, listen to yourself. You can't resist ad hominem attacks, you then accuse me of never belonging to the working classes. :rolleyes: I simply said your immigration views reflect those of The Guardian more than any tabloid. I know, I read them all too. What types of jobs do you think my old school leaving friends do back home? Working class, low paying jobs. I did them too from the age of 14.
Your post doesn't warrant any serious response as you are unable to discuss anything rationally or as an adult. You do not feel threatened and so put your fingers in your ears and whistle a merry song whilst national borders are being abused daily.
I will agree that some people can be lazy, but start paying them 3 times the minimum wage, and see how productive they will suddenly become. Like magic, English workers would find the desire to work. That's what the average Polish worker is getting in his or her currency.
Instead you waffle on about how lazy the English are and what a benefit the foreigners are to the economy. Such research shows the benefits to be marginal at best, and it is sheep like you that keep on parroting utter gibberish. And don't forget, your personal anecdotes are worth nothing. They are not intellectual and should be ignored. The words of a wise man, apparently.
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From the age of 14? What were you a chimney sweep? Bulgarians and Romanians are not job stealing demons whatever your faux intellectual reasoning or "friends back home" tell you.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
So are you guys planning on getting rid of the pound too?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
So are you guys planning on getting rid of the pound too?
Britian would never get rid of sterling or the monarchy. We will always be an island and different to the rest of Europe.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
So are you guys planning on getting rid of the pound too?
Britian would never get rid of sterling or the monarchy. We will always be an island and
different to the rest of Europe.
Full of Europeans isnt that different ;D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
So are you guys planning on getting rid of the pound too?
Britian would never get rid of sterling or the monarchy. We will always be an island and
different to the rest of Europe.
Full of Europeans isnt that different ;D.
It's always been full of Europeans. Vikings, Normans, Romans, Celts even.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Ha ha. Take that,limeys.
Take what? France made Canada its bitch, we either kicked the Peans out, stole and absorbed their culture or shagged them making them and their offspring British.
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Ha ha. Take that,limeys.
Take what?
An influx of Albanian land pirates.
:toff: "I say ol bean, nice hat" :pimp2:"shut up about hats, or we kill you and all family".
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Re: London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Ha ha. Take that,limeys.
Take what? France made Canada its bitch, we either kicked the Peans out, stole and absorbed their culture or shagged them making them and their offspring British.
How dare you make a mockery of what was a brutal and heinous act. By shagging you are euphemising the word "raping" more like. Also you admit it was "stolen". Hmmm, not a very altruistic approach for someone who is so neurotically and paranoically lashing out when people are against Gypsies or Roma or WHOEVER. Hypocrite.
