Jabs vs power punches - Canelo won ya babies!!!
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Jabs vs power punches - Canelo won ya babies!!!
Well said Powerpuncher. The polls and ringside experts tell a different story in both fights. Out of 6 judges most of them still see what most other people are not seeing. It's a sham and I feel not only bad for GGG, but anyone who forked out 90 dollars to see yet another terrible decision. When a robbery is as blatant as that there should be a refund option or an ability to sue and have evidence gathered to make a case that the scoring is wrong. Boxing would have to change its attitude when it is finally hit in the pocket itself. It is corrupt.
Haven't logged on in a long time. Just came here to say this, I wanted to (conservatively)give it a draw after seeing it live on someone's Instagram stream. Watched the fight again on a better stream and I gave 8 rds to GGG. Jabs fucking count.
Well, Hulk and Dia said they thought GGG won but didn't vote. Armin said he thought GGG won but mistakenly voted Canelo. Walrus didn't see the fight but voted Canelo.
You make the necessary adjustments, and the poll favors GGG with almost 75%, which surpasses the 70% opinion of the boxing experts posted earlier.
For not having been a robbery, it should've been pretty clear cut.
But once again.... the Golden Boy cash cow..... in Vegas. Nothing else need be said.
Canelo will lose when someone knocks him out, because obviously he'll never lose a decision in Vegas, nor will he ever fight anywhere else.
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Originally Posted by erik_corrales
Thank you for your opinion. Please vote.
Well observed there Tito. Good job everyone who voted no matter which way you voted and if you haven't voted or want to vote, then please do so. If you are reading and are not a member, just sign up and get voting too. Every opinion counts.
No tits I voted Canelo by error. I was just checking out the poll and must have hit it in errorQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I would like to eliminate your vote. Not because I am inherently fascistic, but because you admit it was an error. Unfortunately I have no way of changing the poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusNo tits I voted Canelo by error. I was just checking out the poll and must have hit it in errorQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
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Originally Posted by MasterJab also brutalised Canelo's face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThat part they got right. Canelo looked like he was going to stop GGG until he gassed in the 8th. Of course Canelo would gas, he always has. But it was shocking to see GGG staggering around in 6,7, early 8 from what he took early. While you were fawning over GGGs jab Canelo was brutalizing him to the body.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGolovkin was winning the fight on the outside with the ramrod jab of his. If the fight was anywhere else Golovkin gets the decision. However you are right the judges all had Canelo 4-2 up after 6 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxingGGG WON IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT THIS AS A SLAP FIGHT. You ask your opponent in the lead up to not run then slap and run yourself. GGG is the one at fault for throwing a curve to the judges. The style he opted to fight swung the judges to think Canelo dictated the fight. Even Abel is throwing GGG under the bus saying he wanted him to fight and he opted to box. It was a good competitive fight but it was obvious if GGG opts to fight next time he is the one who will gas out. The man was dying in his corner at the end of each round from the middle rounds on.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI agree that GGG was again absent when it came to the body. However, unlike Canelo in the first fight who was on the back foot, GGG was doing it in the center of the ring and was landing the jab again and again as well as noticeable uppercuts. That was the big difference. GGG hardly ran, he boxed. Canelo did run in that first fight, but count me the number of times GGG went to the ropes. He didn't at all. He was in the middle outlanding his opponent. He outlanded Alvarez by about 30 punches overall. GGG also came on strong hurting Canelo a number of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
It was a good fight.
But Canelo couldn’t maintain and GGG found that something special inside himself to take the momentum.
Canelo is a better fighter than I ever gave him credit for and GGG showed he’s not just a bully, he won’t fold for nothing.
So it seems the early rounds, the first 6, were key to this fight. I thought Golovkin was controlling the fight and winning the majority of the first half of the fight.
Other posters saw it as a negative and favoured Canelo's aggression.
I think the reason behind that was the fact that team GGG wouldn't shut up about Canelo running and asked him to come and trade rather than "run" like he did in the first fight ( this was something that was pissing me off too). So now in the rematch Canelo came forward and took the fight to GGG and he goes on the back foot so it seems as though Canelo has now beaten him at his game and the fight he asked for. Like some one mentioned earlier, Canelo out GGG'd Golovkin and out landed him with powershots.
What I saw last night was Canelo mentally beating GGG, regardless of scorecards and what everyone thinks, in that ring GGG knows he was beaten. He was on the back foot huffing and puffing; his killer power wasn't effective and the boogieman was looking worried. If they truly believed they had won in there they would've been crying robbery like they did the first time but rather they are giving Canelo credit and Abel has even come out and said GGG didn't do enough to win clearly.
I cant understand why GGG didnt body punch in the rematch , that was the way to win inside the distance.
And two people I know voted for Canelo aren’t reputable poster IMO and had either an obvious bias or were just trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Canelo is getting alot of hate because the 118 - 110 scorecard from the first fight and it has clouded a lot of people's judgement who are trying to do justice for GGG. Everyone is talking about GGG's jab but what about Canelo's body work? his control of the pace? inside work? defense? walking down the hardest hitter at middleweight and beating him at his own game? Landing more power shots?
Everyone has moved on from hating Floyd to hating Canelo now.
Boxing is getting more attention these days due to social media and what not but it has brought in a lot of emotional people who get tied up with the story and emotion of the fight and score based off of that rather than the actual fight itself. Ignore what has happened in the past and don't try to do justice for GGG and you will see GGG lost a close fight.
Sorry miles I meant to hit like. Just watched the fight. I saw it as close with the edge to triple G. It was a good fight. I watched it on my phone which makes it a bit more difficult to score. Canelo got rocked pretty hard in the eighth but damn both them guys can take a punch. I thought Canelo did much better this fight staying off the ropes. I wouldn’t have been shocked if they called this one a draw, last fight was clearly triple G. It was a good performance all around, I’ll watch it again on the big screen to better judge it but I enjoyed the fight. Plus I watched it at work so I made some money as I watched.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI would like to eliminate your vote. Not because I am inherently fascistic, but because you admit it was an error. Unfortunately I have no way of changing the poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusNo tits I voted Canelo by error. I was just checking out the poll and must have hit it in errorQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I think the emotion is in suggesting that judges were swayed by pre fight hype meaning that 'Canelo coming forward' means Canelo is winning or something akin to that. Those must be emotional judges and what kind of independent adjudicator is basing their evaluation on pre fight bluster?
What I saw was a clever GGG deciding to jab and box his way through those early rounds. Emotion is suggesting GGG lost rounds because he wasn't going to war. Personally I think he was doing what Marquez was doing to Manny which was to outbox his opponent.
Then in the second half when asked to step on the gas he did so throwing more and landing the more telling power shots. If judges are being persuaded that Canelo standing there is him controlling the fight then I find that strange because GGG was doing far more work. Of course GGG was breathing hard, he was working a good 30% harder than Canelo. It's hard work throw punches for 36 minutes at 36 years of age and he still showed a greater workrate and ability to land than Canelo who is seemingly in his prime. Again to base any decision on how heavy a fighter is breathing would be rather strange. It's about who is landing and hurting who. I saw GGG outland Canelo and hurt him several times down the stretch. Canelo does have a heck of a beard and the chin is very good too.
I wonder about GGG's trainer too. It seems to me he is appeasing as the rematch adds to his retirement fund. Just my hunch. GGG has been more honest with his reactions by walking out and saying he did enough. He is obviously quite upset. It makes me wonder if GGG should go with Roach instead and try it one last time. If GGG's own trainer is against the consensus then I wonder what he is really about. Did he really not see the good work was doing by using the jab so well? Abel's reactions are very strange to me.
I forget what round it was, maybe the fifth or so but it sounded like Abel told GGG “we are losing” it was very quick as soon as G took a seat. I probably didn’t hear it clearly but it did sound like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Jabs are power punches. "Power" sounds sexier than "other" hence millions of foolish fans believing an idea created for TV to make commentators sound sophisticated is an exact science.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
And if you want to play punchstats, whilst ignoring jabs, your hero Floyd lost the first fight to Maidana on "power punches."
Yes, you could make the case that a jab from the likes of Wlad, Kov or GGG are 'power punches'. An effective jab shows that you are controlling range and if it is landing consistently then you are doing what you are setting out to do. I don't see how Canelo not running away makes that any less effective. It reminds me a bit of Marquez/Barrera also where I thought Barrera controlled the early rounds mainly through his jab. But in that fight Marquez was the one more effective with the power punches later on. I still think that was an excellent Barrera fight with a deciding KD being the difference overall. In this fight the more effective second half power punches were from GGG.
I mean a KD that was not scored. Barrera knocked down Marquez but lost his cool and lost a point instead. Great round that as Barrera was struggling that round.
Never leave it in the hands of the judges...
What was the poorer decision...
ODLH V Tito
GGG V Canelo
PBF V Maidana
???
Does not matter, poor decision is a poor decision. It was not a robbery, because the rounds were very close and my score card was wide, just a bad decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
The first fight was genuinely an outlandish robbery, with one of the single worst judges cards I have ever seen (and that's saying something)
The second fight, which was a great fight no doubt about it, was much closer than the first. It was Canelo who made adjustments and improved. He showed real skill, quality and heart in there.
I do think GGG won the second fight too, but it was close enough that the judges could have gone either way. After what happened first time around, Golovkin must have suspected he didn't win clearly enough.
Its pretty outrageous that this can happen in a multi million dollar global event, and this has a big effect on all sorts of things. GGG has been the best middleweight I've seen since Hagler, and this leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth.
The funny thing was I gave it to Triple G by 1 Point on my scoring before the decision was announced. I watched it again yesterday and I scored it for Canelo. I thought that Canelo definitely won the last round and that was a key and I also think that his body shots or very effective and the fact that he was moving Triple G back and forced Triple G to use his boxing techniques more he kind of took away triple G's forward-moving steamrolling kind of thing and I agree that is pure victory as far as ring generalship goes. When you combine that with triple G's flat-footed kind of strategy meaning did the guy really try hard to go for a knockout like he said? Where is his body attack? I don't know man. I now think that Canelo won the fight. I think Canelo won four out of the first six rounds. And the last round. So right there that's five round so all you have to do is give him two more rounds between round 6 and round 12
Thanks X that is pretty much how I see but u white guys always say it betterQuote:
Originally Posted by X
I disagree Brock. I don't it is on GGG to have Canelo fleeing to be doing what he wants to do. We cannot just say 'Well GGG usually backs opponents up' and 'Canelo usually runs' but this time it was different so Canelo wins. I find that a strange way of looking at it. If you are outlanding your opponent and managing to get hit less than the other guy is hitting you then you are outboxing your opponent. GGG was outboxing Canelo in that first half. And why not if the other guy is just walking you down and trying to smother? Surely we aren't judging a fight based on what we think someone is going to do otherwise we are penalising someone for having a plan B. That doesn't make sense to me. That is where I find Andre Ward's analysis corny but then again he got outboxed against Kov and got the decision so he would think like that. 😕
don't think...can't type on a phone!
But everyone knew your scorecard would be wide before the fight started. Hell, we could predict most everyone here’s cards before the fight startedQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterDoes not matter, poor decision is a poor decision. It was not a robbery, because the rounds were very close and my score card was wide, just a bad decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
The fact you had it wide shows you’re opinion of this fight is and was biased. Everyone agrees it was a close fight except you.
We all try and score it as fairly as we can even with our bias, views and opinions. I stand by my score card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonBut everyone knew your scorecard would be wide before the fight started. Hell, we could predict most everyone here’s cards before the fight startedQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterDoes not matter, poor decision is a poor decision. It was not a robbery, because the rounds were very close and my score card was wide, just a bad decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
The fact you had it wide shows you’re opinion of this fight is and was biased. Everyone agrees it was a close fight except you.
I said it was a close fight because the rounds could have gone either way.
You can still have a close fight but a wide score card. The analogy I made in the thread about the tennis match score be 3 nil in sets is apt because it looks a clear victory but the set scores would be 7-6, 7-6, 7-6.
True. And I didn’t mean for my comment to sound harsh. I just find it a bit sad that we have a great fight that is nip and tuck the whole way and people cry robbery. If they gave it to GGG, cool, if they gave it to Canelo, cool, to me a draw was fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWe all try and score it as fairly as we can even with our bias, views and opinions. I stand by my score card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonBut everyone knew your scorecard would be wide before the fight started. Hell, we could predict most everyone here’s cards before the fight startedQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterDoes not matter, poor decision is a poor decision. It was not a robbery, because the rounds were very close and my score card was wide, just a bad decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
The fact you had it wide shows you’re opinion of this fight is and was biased. Everyone agrees it was a close fight except you.
I said it was a close fight because the rounds could have gone either way.
You can still have a close fight but a wide score card. The analogy I made in the thread about the tennis match score be 3 nil in sets is apt because it looks a clear victory but the set scores would be 7-6, 7-6, 7-6.
I thought GGG was the more skilled fighter going in, I thought Canelo was the more athletic and diverse fighter. I walk away with that same feeling. But both are elevated in my eyes. GGG for showing the fortitude to recover and adjust, Canelo for showing that for all the hell he catches is a fighter through and through. People want to call him pampered for the business of boxing but what matters is in the ring. Dude out GGG’d GGG. Props to GGG for adjusting. Props to Canelo for being willing to stand and fight.
It is hypocritical of you to accuse anyone else of being biased, considering you are biased yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Predictably, you wanted Canelo to win because Mayweather has a win over him, and a win by Alvarez enhances Floyd's resume.
I wasn't rooting for either boxer, yet like most people I saw Golovkin winning, close but clear.
So much ado about jabs vs. power shots, as if jabs were the only thing GGG connected with. Watch the fight again. GGG totally ROCKED Canelo in the later rounds. Only Canelo's granite chin kept him from going down. GGG dominated the first few rounds jabbing from the outside, seemed to be a bit gassed toward the middle, then showed his true grit and rocked Canelo again and again with uppers and power shots. Canelo fans obviously will cling to the body shots of Canelo like drowning people to a lifebuoy, while ignoring the pounding GGG put on Canelo especially in the last part of the fight.
Again... Canelo fans think Canelo won. Boxing fans know GGG won. Every single survey being done bears it out. Simple as that.
You got almost everything wrong in that. I’ve never rooted for Canelo, I said “we could predict most everyone’s cards before the fight started” so I don’t need you to tell me about my biases, I’ve admitted them. Considering I saw it even it would suggest I didn’t favor either. And I don’t care about what Canelo does now in regards to Floyd, the 2 aren’t connected. Floyd fought a 21 year old 154 pounder, that’s a completely different fighter than a 28 year old 160 pounder. But keep pulling inaccuracy from the sky, I enjoy it. Perhaps I want GGG to fight Charlo, Jacobs, Saunders, Derevyanchenko because of Floyd rather than because I want to see the best MWs in the world fight. That would completely contradict everything I’ve ever said but throw it out thereQuote:
Originally Posted by FreedomIt is hypocritical of you to accuse anyone else of being biased, considering you are biased yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Predictably, you wanted Canelo to win because Mayweather has a win over him, and a win by Alvarez enhances Floyd's resume.
I wasn't rooting for either boxer, yet like most people I saw Golovkin winning, close but clear.
You’re just a fan right? Not someone who hates Canelo right? Neutral and impartial right?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
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Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou’re just a fan right? Not someone who hates Canelo right? Neutral and impartial right?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ok, so substract 0.0000001% of the vote.
Makes a big difference right? Skews the voting results right? Makes a difference in what the vast majority thinks right?
If you support one fighter does not mean that you can not judge a fight fairly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou’re just a fan right? Not someone who hates Canelo right? Neutral and impartial right?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I think Titofan can judge a fight as impartially as any one of us.
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Originally Posted by MasterIf you support one fighter does not mean that you can not judge a fight fairly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou’re just a fan right? Not someone who hates Canelo right? Neutral and impartial right?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I think Titofan can judge a fight as impartially as any one of us.
No it's ok. Let's take my vote out of it. That'll take the universal opinion down from 75% to 74.9999999%.
Now the decision looks soooo much better.
You all still don’t get it. The decision was fine. By the 8th round we knew some people were going to be pi$$ed. The Canelo fans or the GGG fans. Why, because it was nip and tuck. Since I didn’t have a horse in the fight I get to simply sit back and think higher of each fighter than I did before the fight. After a great fight fight fans should be happy.
I think you're the one who doesn't get it. Enjoying a fight and disagreeing with the decision are two mutually exclusive things. One doesn't depend on the other. It was a good fight. Canelo came to fight this time. But in the opinion of myself (oh wait.... my opinion doesn't count) and MANY boxing experts, GGG clearly won or it was a draw at best. Not one boxing sportswriter in one posted survey thought Canelo won. Even one from a Mexican paper thought it was a draw. So I'm afraid your argument that we "just don't get it" falls flat on its face.
I have to be the one guy who hasn't seen the fight yet. But judging by the RBR..awesome input..and media talk both guys fought their arses off and at the end of the day that's all you can really ask for. Well and a just decision, but I'll reserve judgement :wisesmilie:.
Its a really great fight.. Definently watch it when you can... Wouldn't be as cool as seeing it live but wotever... I think this time it was certainly worth the 85 Canadian quids and I'm half jew when it comes to money :S. Draw would have been the fairest result for all the effort both geezers put in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli