Thanks 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
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Thanks 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It would be fairer if we listed the negatives about Crawford's opposition, like has been done for Loma, instead of focusing on only positives. Or at least acknowledge the positives of Loma's opposition.
It's easy to pick holes in any fighters record and spin it however you want. The pro-Crawford camp instantly say - "too small" - about a bonafide P4P elite in Rigo whilst ignoring Gamboa was a natural featherweight who moved back down to 130 after facing Crawford. His only fight at 135 he struggled to a PTS win over Darleys Perez, a man Crolla and Campbell knocked out before losing to Linares (the supposed weak resume guy who was a three-weight champion and WBC and WBA and Ring at 135).
Postol? Best win is a "shot" Matthysse, then lost against a 12-0 British prospect.
Indongo? Best win is an upset over a "shot" Burns, then got annihilated inside 6 minutes by Prograis.
Beltran? Just the 7 other losses besides Crawford for a drug cheat.
Diaz? Benavidez? Dulorme? They haven't even won an alphabet between them.
It is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hey, maybe it’d be fairer if I woke my grandmother up at 3am and smashed her over the head with a canoe, then set out to cut down a tree with my socks.
The cruiserweight division is much stronger today and held in much higher esteem than back in the day. There's currently more registered cruiserweights than lightheavies. The change from 190 to 200 was a big benefit to it. As @Alpha said - the guys today are the 70s heavyweight heroes, big athletes with obvious speed, skill and power.
I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIt is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
But your breakdown of Crawford's record showed just how weak it is (imo) and you were trying to overplay it. You haven't once played all the positives about Loma's competition.
Loma, Mikey, Wangek, Shiro, Crawford, Uysk, Inoue, Canelo, Golovkin - some have better opposition, some more titles, some more divisions and some quite simply look better than others. There is no right or wrong.
I wasn't trying to overplay Crawford's record at all, just trying to give a fair breakdown on how I see it. There were guys like Benavidez who could be compared to Walters, you could have Horn in that group, Dulorme although not great has arguably beaten Ugas and Vargas in his last 2 fights, could be compared to Marriaga etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIt is easy to do, I'm only trying to point out that there are probably around 8 guys that could all make a claim as the best fighter in the world. All there records can be picked apart to an extend, but to call any of these guys' records superior to any of the others doesn't seem right to me, which is the only reason I pointed out some of Crawford's record, as I have stated, I wouldn't have Crawford or Loma as my #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
But your breakdown of Crawford's record showed just how weak it is (imo) and you were trying to overplay it. You haven't once played all the positives about Loma's competition.
Loma, Mikey, Wangek, Shiro, Crawford, Uysk, Inoue, Canelo, Golovkin - some have better opposition, some more titles, some more divisions and some quite simply look better than others. There is no right or wrong.
I think Loma's record is brilliant. I'm pretty sure I've said that before, I don't want it to come of like I think it isn't. I just don't think it's superior to these other guys. That is really the only point I'm trying to make here. I do think Mikey's record is slightly better, but that's just my opinion and we went through that before. Like you said there's no right and wrong here.
I haven't really gone into Loam's record because I have been either presenting my opinion on Mikey's record or trying to explain that I don't feel Loma's record is superior.
Russell Jr is probably Loma's best win for me. In only his '3rd' fight. Gary was 24-0 and has arguably the fastest hands currently in the game. That fight is actually a treat to watch. Since then he's 5-0, with wins over Jhonny Gonzalez KO4, arguably the #1 guy when Gary fought him. Escandon KO7, not elite but bottom top 10 or just outside the 126 rankings when Russell Jr stopped him. And his recent win over Jo Jo Diaz W12. 26-0 at the time, a former US Olympian. Again not elite but definitely a current bottom top 10 guy.
Linares is a fantastic win. That would probably be my second best win for Loma. You have listed his achievements previously.
Then I think I'd go Walters RTD7. 26-0-1 when they fought. Best wins over Darchinyan and Donaire. Should have also got the nod, instead of a draw with Sosa. Also beat the tough Marriaga.
From there probably Rigo RTD6. Former 2 time Olympic gold medalist. 17-0 going in. Recognized as the Lineal super-bantam champ. Had everyone from Donaire, Frampton Quigg and Mares (did I forget anyone?) running up in weight. Best wins over Cordoba. Ramos is a solid win. Donaire. Former elite bantam Agbeko.
I'd probably have Martinez next KO5. A 3 time WBO super-featherweight champ. Fought Salido twice. Handling him pretty well in the 1st fight (this was 1 fight after Salido had beaten Loma), the other fight was a draw. Other good wins include Cook, Burns, Burgos is a solid victory, and Diego Magdaleno.
That's his top 5 for me, but you also have to acknowledge that he defeated Sosa, and the tough Marriaga. He also took Salido to the brink, in only his second fight. Some even feel Loma should have got the nod in that fight.
I'll stick with Walters, Linares and Russell Jr. at the top..... with a huge gap between them and Rigo and Martinez. Matter of opinion, after all. ;)
By doing so, I feel the "bias factor" is out. What's wrong with pointing out that Rigo was two divisions out of his comfort zone? Unless you're blinded by Loma fandom, it's easy to see. Also I have no problems picking apart my countryman Martinez as a weak champion and a poor gauge in trying to figure out who's p4p in the world. Martinez is/was/always will be a brave warrior and a joy to watch in the ring... no nonsense. Thoroughly enjoyed his two victories over the cheating Salido. But let's be real. Mikey had already taken Martinez apart in the worst way. That's why the gap. By calling Walters, Linares and Russell Jr. great wins, I'm showing my willingness to be objective. :)
Turning to Crawford, it's easy to throw Diaz, Benavidez and Dulorme into the trash heap on account of them never having won titles. We all know how accurate titles are at determining quality of opponent, don't we. Especially nowadays, when a belt found in a Cracker Jack box is probably more valuable than some of the belts being worn by some of today's "champions." Gamboa's being undersized I can understand and accept, though not at the ridiculous extent that Rigo was. Again... just a show of my remarkable objectiveness. ;D Postol's best win was over Matthysse? Damn straight. So? All fighters have best wins. That was a dominant showing against a feared puncher.... totally unexpected. Everyone was singing Postol's praises after that one. Now of course the bandwagon is temporarily derailed until someone changes the flat tire and it's bandwagon time again.
I agree with @Alpha in that there are probably close to a handful of fighters out there today who are better than either Crawford or Loma. I'm not a Crawford p4p rah-rah guy. But I'll continue stating my opinion that Loma doesn't necessarily belong there either, just yet.
Good points all round. You know who definitely has a better record than Loma or Crawford though? frank Stallone.
Wait, Matthysse was shot but later moved up and won the fake belt your other boy pretended was real. How did he win the belt if he was shot? Or are you now admitting the WBA Regular is not a major title? I sure hope it’s the latter and we can get some consistencyQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Also, you don’t count 3 wins because the guys didn’t win a belt. But you put that as a credit to Loma with Marriaga who didn’t win a belt AND moved up. Can we please get some consistency?
And please stop lying, not one person said Linares was weak. Just everyone recognizes that Garcia is a better fighter than Linares. Even you recognize this. So don’t play victim and twist things around to push a fake agenda.
Ron, you have so spectacularly failed to see the point of my post to Alpha it's laughable, however, I am bored enough to combat some of your other vitriolic attack on my good self.
Belts
I've spent 20 years shitting on alphabets. The WBC, WBA Reg, WBA Super, IBF or WBO is all the same to me - meaningless!!! FIGHTERS make the belt!!!
However, alphabets GUARANTEE high rankings, collateral, deals, money and the ticket to SELL major fights. Find me ONE alphabet holder not independently ranked in the top 10 of his division? If fans/media want to use alphabets as a barometer then I play by the SAME rules.
BELTS = POWER yet have NOTHING to do with THE best fighter.
Linares ranked higher than Mikey at 135. Who do I I think would win? Mikey!!! There is no contradiction!
Murata ranked higher than Charlo at 160. Who do I think would win? Charlo!!! There is no contradiction!
You are not Nostradamus!!! I am not Nostradamus!!! Nobody is Nostradamus!!! And Nostradamus was a GENUINE deceptive, lying, agenda driven fake cunt!!! I'm just a sad cunt killing time speaking to you lunatics.
You sound like a very angry person. Most here have recognized that I give people a hard time. And most are adult enough to have fun with it. Good luck with whatever makes you so miserable thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
(I shouldn’t have to say that I am just giving a hard time in such a post but just to be safe, just giving you a hard time. We’re all inconsistent. Me, you, everyone)
Sorry if my coarse language perturbed you a little, @ron. I was calling myself a cunt though not you. I like you.
Tyson Fury is really the best P4P
And it will become obvious when he knocks out Deontay Wilder in the 7th round with an uppercut
Not you to. You sure you're not Brocks alt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNot you to. You sure you're not Brocks alt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
Let's hope Slim has the cojones to put his vote in the fight poll like Brock hasn't been willing to do.
OH....... I stand CORRECTED!
Hallelujah!
Brock finally voted on the poll. :cheerleader: :dancer: :domo-kun::yay2:
I was getting tired of harassing him. ;D :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNot you to. You sure you're not Brocks alt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNot you to. You sure you're not Brocks alt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
Let's hope Slim has the cojones to put his vote in the fight poll like Brock hasn't been willing to do.
Hearing that Collaz could be next for Crawford. Not interested in this fight at all. Don't get me wrong, I like Collazo and he is an excellent gate keeper but I would prefer Kavaliauskas over this. One good thing tho is that it may mean Arum and Haymon are working together, so it could lead to Crawford vs Spence down the line.
Luis "still fighting once a year since who landed that body shot on Thurman and nearly beat him" Collazo ?
The only way I’m at all alright with this fight is if it is a stopgap fight to a big fight. Other than that, it’s pretty worthless. Collazo is still a live fighter but not for someone at Crawford’s level. It’s just unfortunate that Haymon seems to have all of the welters. Arum needs to figure something out quick as not to waste the rest of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Brock’s back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
Your cousin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraBrock’s back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
Crawford vs Collazo is pathetic. Crawford needs to do far better than that if he wants to be considered a player at 47
He is already a player at welter, but he may end up like the rest of them who never prove themselves to be more than one of the best rather than the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Terence Crawford next fight: Welterweight star reportedly close to fight with shock opponent Luis Collazo in next title defence
It is claimed that the bout would take place on March 23 in New York
Terence Crawford is reportedly closing in on a deal to defend his WBO welterweight title against Luis Collazo.
The story comes as a shock to most boxing fans as the champion appeared to be headed for a fight against Lithuania’s Egidijus Kavaliauskas next.
https://talksport.com/wp-content/upl...60&quality=100
Crawford and Kavaliauskas are both signed to Bob Arum’s Top Rank, however BoxingScene claim that an agreement is nearly complete for Bud to defend against Collazo next – despite the fact he is aligned to Al Haymon’s rival organisation, PBC.
The WBO ruler claimed his title by knocking out Jeff Horn in June and then made his first defence with a stoppage of Jose Benavidez in October.
Meanwhile, the challenger was last seen beating Bryant Perella in a ten-round undercard bout in August.
It is understood that the fight is being targeted for March 23 at Madison Square Garden in New York.
Luis Collazo, 37, won a WBA welterweight belt in 2005 and has since failed on two subsequent challenges against Andre Berto and Keith Thurman.
He has also lost to two Brits in Amir Khan and Ricky Hatton, but will now get another shot against pound-for-pound star Terence Crawford, 31, who is a three division world champion.
https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/4...title-defence/
Really expected better of Crawford if he's being called out by Spence and considered among top p4p. Just a massive step sideways at best I think. Is Collazo still with Haymon? Wonder if that makes Arum nervous at all, maybe that's just the cynic in me talking :-X. All champs at 147 in action by April, just not with each other unfortunately.
Crawford vs. old shot Collazo is a sickening mismatch.
There are many, many better options for Crawford, including his mandatory, who happens to have the same promoter.
Spence is trying to taste real Welterweight power. Against a guy he can box a little better against without the risk. This is merely a tune-up fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Look at it: Horn and Benavidez posed no power threat to Crawford. Collazo does. This is merely a power-punch test against a strong, harder than usual hitting, strong chinned Welterweight.
This is all. I suspect after this Collazo fight, the end of 2019 will be VERY promising for us as Crawford fans.
PS: This also is a "warm" opening to Arum's fighters going in against Haymon's fighters without all of the high risk and drama associated.
People tend to forget, more than stage fright, but business kills more fights than injuries do. Often times these guys lie about injuries, PED's and chickening out due to the MONEY and the RESIDUALS not being in place along with the CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS.
This is a good time for Arum and Haymon to sit down over business in a low-risk kinda fight. Arum ALWAYS did business with King, because they chopped it up properly over business. Haymon can learn from King on how to work with Arum.