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Disagree, Haye fought better fighters and Haye managed to win a version of the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I dont get your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cunningham has faced better opposition at heavy bar Klitschko than Haye did!
Also , there's a difference between "facing" and "beating" good opposition. If not, Zab Judah would be lb4lb top 5 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDisagree, Haye fought better fighters and Haye managed to win a version of the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossI dont get your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cunningham has faced better opposition at heavy bar Klitschko than Haye did!
I understand that but Hayes opponents were dog shit! Barrett? Ruiz? Harrison? All were about 40 and retired or loads of losses. Valuev was awfull and 46 year old Holyfield did a more convincing job. Then you have Chisora which was a good win but arguably Cunningham also beats that lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraAlso , there's a difference between "facing" and "beating" good opposition. If not, Zab Judah would be lb4lb top 5 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDisagree, Haye fought better fighters and Haye managed to win a version of the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossI dont get your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cunningham has faced better opposition at heavy bar Klitschko than Haye did!
Cunningham beat Wlodarczyk who had previously beat him for the vacant IBF belt stolen from Bell.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossCunningham beat a defending champion to win the belt then defended it by knocking out Huck. Thats why Haye didnt want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Haye took Enzo's WBO belt and Frank Warren's millions then moved to heavyweight, something he had planned since the day he turned pro. WBA, WBC, WBO, The Ring, lineal cruiser champ.
It's funny, out of those guys you mentioned , I have Chisora at the bottom of the pile along with maybe Harrison. And you can say what you like about Valuev , but he had a 40 odd -1 record , was World Champion and how can not taking the World title be more convincing than taking the World title?Quote:
Originally Posted by rossI understand that but Hayes opponents were dog shit! Barrett? Ruiz? Harrison? All were about 40 and retired or loads of losses. Valuev was awfull and 46 year old Holyfield did a more convincing job. Then you have Chisora which was a good win but arguably Cunningham also beats that lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraAlso , there's a difference between "facing" and "beating" good opposition. If not, Zab Judah would be lb4lb top 5 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDisagree, Haye fought better fighters and Haye managed to win a version of the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossI dont get your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cunningham has faced better opposition at heavy bar Klitschko than Haye did!
And anyway, your point was that Cunningham faced better opposition at HW than Haye. Where?
Adamek is better than Barrett, Fury was unbeaten and went on to easily beat Hayes best opponent and Mansour was unbeaten and a more dangerous opposition than Ruiz at that point. He also faced Visinia who was unbeaten and Glazkov who was unbeaten and Cunningham should have got the decision against.
Cunningham doesnt have the appeal and cant pick and choose a route to the world title over journeymen. He had a hard run at heavy. Even if he did he would have faltered at the very top as Haye did. He would have a chance against Wilder though, who would still be better than Valuev.
He lost to Adamek,Fury and Glazkov. He beat Mansour, but who has Mansour ever beat? And yes, he beat an unbeaten Visinia. Yeah , a 10-0 novice fighting 6 rounders, who's victims had racked up a whopping 22 wins between them. And what's Visinia done since? Fuck all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
The only name you mentioned he genuinely lost to was Fury, the best heavyweight in the world and better than the fighter who easily beat Haye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraHe lost to Adamek,Fury and Glazkov. He beat Mansour, but who has Mansour ever beat? And yes, he beat an unbeaten Visinia. Yeah , a 10-0 novice fighting 6 rounders, who's victims had racked up a whopping 22 wins between them. And what's Visinia done since? Fuck all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
My point is Cunningham didnt face tired old journeymen he faced big, strong, undefeated ambitious fighters. If he fought the fighters Haye fought he would have the same wins.
Haye didnt want Cunningham or Adamek.
And my point is that Haye would've beat everyone Cunningham beat at HW and Haye would've beat Cunningham ! That's about all that counts really.
It doesn't really matter because we'll probably never know.
We don't KNOW how it's going to pan out with Haye, or indeed any Boxer who has 3 years out of the ring and a Shoulder injury that has had surgery.
In your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
There is a reason he fought the level he fought and has now reverted back to a poor level.
Haye avoided any dangers and fooled people like yourself in to thinkng he was a genuine threat to Klitschko and some fools have come out of the woodwork signing his praises as if his last fight meant something?
Cunningham does not beat Valuev or Ruiz at the point Haye beat those two.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossThe only name you mentioned he genuinely lost to was Fury, the best heavyweight in the world and better than the fighter who easily beat Haye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraHe lost to Adamek,Fury and Glazkov. He beat Mansour, but who has Mansour ever beat? And yes, he beat an unbeaten Visinia. Yeah , a 10-0 novice fighting 6 rounders, who's victims had racked up a whopping 22 wins between them. And what's Visinia done since? Fuck all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
My point is Cunningham didnt face tired old journeymen he faced big, strong, undefeated ambitious fighters. If he fought the fighters Haye fought he would have the same wins.
Haye didnt want Cunningham or Adamek.
Come off it master!Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterCunningham does not best Valuev or Ruiz at the point Haye beat those two.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossThe only name you mentioned he genuinely lost to was Fury, the best heavyweight in the world and better than the fighter who easily beat Haye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraHe lost to Adamek,Fury and Glazkov. He beat Mansour, but who has Mansour ever beat? And yes, he beat an unbeaten Visinia. Yeah , a 10-0 novice fighting 6 rounders, who's victims had racked up a whopping 22 wins between them. And what's Visinia done since? Fuck all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
My point is Cunningham didnt face tired old journeymen he faced big, strong, undefeated ambitious fighters. If he fought the fighters Haye fought he would have the same wins.
Haye didnt want Cunningham or Adamek.
46 year old Holyfield should have win against Valuev!! Cunnngham would have run rungs round him. Ruiz had retired and was what? 40?
You added the "at the point Haye beat them" as if it was like the pinnacles of their career. Its only because they were at that point that Haye beat them.
He only takes fighters he sees big weaknesses in. Mormeck had been knocked out by ONeil Bell, Macaranelli had been hurt and dropped by Bruce Scott and knocked out by Lee Swaby. Barrett was a journeyman who actually dropped Haye. Ruiz was done! Harrison had been poleaxed and proven to be hesitant. Even Klitschko, Haye thought he could blitz him like Corrie Sanders.
You are saying everything with hindsight.
Valuev would be too big for Cunningham and Ruiz came in the best condition for a long time because he genuinely thought he would beat Haye.
Comical!! Bringing Lee Swaby in to justify your case. That was an early fight in Maccarinell's career that has no bearing on anything.plucking stats from Boxrec like they have any bearing on this. 😂😂😂😂
No, stats from my memory. Doesnt say on boxrec he was dropped by Scott.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
I also remember Thompson gving Haye a hiding and that was another 40 year old retired fighter.