Kobe or Lebron?

To admit that you must also admit that his teammates also made him better ;)

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

OH COME ON NOW!!!! Don't start that they couldn;t make the shots because he doesn't inspire confidence that's BULLSHIT!

They punked up! Kwame punked up, Lamae punked up, Smush punked up, everybody punked up!!!! He'd been getting them involved and after gave 4 he kept trying to keep them involved and all of a sudden Kwame can't catch a pass and Lamar can't make a lay up. They punked up. And thats not a fault of Kobe.

And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player ??? Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.

Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter ???

Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage ;)

but who did he make better ???

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Starr are you serious? Please, oh my God. Scottie Pippen was a SOLID player, NO DOUBT. But do you think...by any conceivable stretch of the imagination that there would be any way he would be one of the NBA's top 50 All Time players without Jordan? NO. That's the answer and it speaks volumes that you are even talking like this. Tony Kukoc, hell I can't even spell his name but under Jordan he was a premeir NBA player. I don't beleive you just said that. I hate to say it but you're credibility on this issue is going down like crazy. That's unbeleivable. Seriously there are no words for saying Jordan didn't make any of his teammates better. To say I expected better would be an understatement of epic proportions. Wow.

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hahaha,I have never seen a reaction like that before! Classic! Was that how ridiculous Starr's statement was? I don't know as much about basketball as you guys but I do know MJ made nearly anyone he played with look good,better than they were. I was a fan of Orlando Magic at the time Jordan was ripping it up.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by Starr

And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player ??? Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.

Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter ???

but who did he make better ???

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I can let you take that back now if you want. Cuz out of all the wrong things you've said, that's easily the wrongest, both in the abstract and in the particulars.

Jordan made every single player on those Bulls teams better than they ever were before (except Rodman) or would ever be again, or would have been without him--and that definitely includes Pippen. Your categorization of Ron Harper and Steve Kerr as "natural starters" is no less ridiculous now that the last time you said it. How about clumsy old Bill Cartwright--was he a "natural starter" as well? Did Jordan not make him better than he would have been. BJ Armstrong--natural starter? This is a fucking joke.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage ;)

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Yes, that's what we're talking about. That's really just another way of describing the same thing. Jordan, with his skill found ways to advantageously use his teammates limited skills, while suppressing their shortcomings as much as possible, for the entire team's advantage. These schmucks didn't do it themselves. And neither can Kobe's "supporting cast"--the difference is that Kobe, unlike Jordan, can't do it for them.

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Bro,your analysis is awesome and it's just based around logic and a cohesive argument! Like I said,I don't know much about basketball but I can understand your arguments! CC.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Actually. LeBron has been on record saying that Kobe was one of his idols and is a mentor of him. So apparently you haven't heard everything ;)

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Can you please put up a link of this? Oh that's right you can't because he never said this, just like you couldn't put one up of Mayweather saying "Pernell would have killed me in his prime" or Spinks saying "I was scared of Tyson" All you do is lie and it's just flat out embarrassing. You lost the argument, (like every other argument you ever enter). Congratulations, you've now proven you don't know sh!t about not only one, but 2 sports ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.

I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.

It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked ;)

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They would to. MJ was a bonafide superstar well before Pippen he just didn't have the team around him to win or he coaching. And I don't think Pippen himself made Jordan a better player. I think Jordan making Pippen and everyone around him better made people regard Jordan as a better player. Big difference then Pippen physically making him a better player. He just gave him a little something to work with. Still though I don't think they are near the duo as Stockton and Malone. Those two were completely dependant on each other, Jordan was in no wy dependant on Pippen.

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Originally Posted by Starr

I will also say that Jordan was never Jordan until those teammates was he ;)

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Here's the obvious fallacy, since you seem to have missed it: other than Pippen, there wasn't a single other starter on the last of the 6 championship teams that was on the first--even the benches were entirely different. But Jordan was still Jordan the whole time--he didn't go away when John fucking Paxson left the team.

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do :)

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Don't think I need to touch this one. ;)

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Originally Posted by The Game

Bro,your analysis is awesome and it's just based around logic and a cohesive argument! Like I said,I don't know much about basketball but I can understand your arguments! CC.

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Many thanks, my friend. CC back. I still don't seem to have gotten through to Starr though.

smashcrusher I told you that it was in a magazine that had an interview with LeBron ESPN I believe. AND THEY SHOW SPINKS SAYING HE WAS SCARED ON ESPN CLASSIC ;) Oh I guess that wasn't Michael Spinks ;)

I told you that it was in a magazine that had an interview with LeBron. AND THEY SHOW SPINKS SAYING HE WAS SCARED ON ESPN CLASSIC ;) Oh I guess that wasn't Michael Spinks ;)

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.

I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.

It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked ;)

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They would to. MJ was a bonafide superstar well before Pippen he just didn't have the team around him to win or he coaching. And I don't think Pippen himself made Jordan a better player. I think Jordan making Pippen and everyone around him better made people regard Jordan as a better player. Big difference then Pippen physically making him a better player. He just gave him a little something to work with. Still though I don't think they are near the duo as Stockton and Malone. Those two were completely dependant on each other, Jordan was in no wy dependant on Pippen.

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FINALLY!!!

Thank you for getting what I was saying.

But it seems the other part really weeded out the arses who didn't understand what I was saying(not naming no names but they just made asses of themselves)

You on the otherhand showed you knew exactly what I was saying.

You know basketball.. :coolclick:

Btw... I don't consider MJ to be the greatest player to ever play in the NBA. Don't challenge me on that ;)

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do :)

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Don't think I need to touch this one. ;)

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You don't understand ;)

SecondRoundKO has already gotten it. You still don't. I can't be arsed with wasting my time with you if you haven't gotten it by now and act like you know

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by The Game

Bro,your analysis is awesome and it's just based around logic and a cohesive argument! Like I said,I don't know much about basketball but I can understand your arguments! CC.

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Many thanks, my friend. CC back. I still don't seem to have gotten through to Starr though.

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I don't think there is any right here. I mean, I am almost positive, 99% sure infact that Lebron never really idolized Kobe. The Jordan thing....if there was a way to see my face while reading it, I'm betting it would look something like :cwm34:

read my responce to you SRKO

However SecondRoundKO I do think that Jordan was dependent on Pippen. I think that if he wasn't they wouldn't have won those championships. I think the entire team was a focal point in that whole dynasty who was on it etc. I don't think the Bulls would have done it with just Jordan alone.

If that is truly what you meant....then there was a better way to word it then say Jordan never made anyone better who played with him. I don't get it because I still don't get the deal about Jordan not making the people around him better. Even if it works the way I explained it that would still be off because my spin on it was based on Jordan making people around him better! And you said the complete opposite a couple post before, challenging us to find someone who Jordan made better.

I think the teammates did make Jordan better. because I don't think he would have won those championships alone.

And I don't consider him the greatest to ever play in the NBA like most and I have a very strong arguement for who I believe is ;)

I think Lew Alcindor is.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.

I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.

It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked ;)

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They would to. MJ was a bonafide superstar well before Pippen he just didn't have the team around him to win or he coaching. And I don't think Pippen himself made Jordan a better player. I think Jordan making Pippen and everyone around him better made people regard Jordan as a better player. Big difference then Pippen physically making him a better player. He just gave him a little something to work with. Still though I don't think they are near the duo as Stockton and Malone. Those two were completely dependant on each other, Jordan was in no wy dependant on Pippen.

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FINALLY!!!

Thank you for getting what I was saying.

But it seems the other part really weeded out the arses who didn't understand what I was saying(not naming no names but they just made asses of themselves)

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Starr, he was disagreeing with you. I've been here long enough to be very familiar with the shape of this episode: Starr says something that's both false and illogical; people respond by pointing out the numerous problems in Starr's post; Starr repeats the same, still false and still illogical arguments without actually responding to any of the critique; eventually, Starr claims that everyone else is too dense to understand him/her and that he/she "is not going to waste his/her time on this anymore"; despite this promise, Starr continues to make the same non-arguments; finally, someone says something in critique of Starr and Starr jumps on the opportunity to claim that he/she was really saying this all along, and so you see he/she "was right bout some things" ;)

It doesn't get any better with repetition--just more predictable.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do :)

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Don't think I need to touch this one. ;)

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You don't understand ;)

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No, I "understand" just fine. See above.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.

I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.

It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked ;)

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They would to. MJ was a bonafide superstar well before Pippen he just didn't have the team around him to win or he coaching. And I don't think Pippen himself made Jordan a better player. I think Jordan making Pippen and everyone around him better made people regard Jordan as a better player. Big difference then Pippen physically making him a better player. He just gave him a little something to work with. Still though I don't think they are near the duo as Stockton and Malone. Those two were completely dependant on each other, Jordan was in no wy dependant on Pippen.

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FINALLY!!!

Thank you for getting what I was saying.

But it seems the other part really weeded out the arses who didn't understand what I was saying(not naming no names but they just made asses of themselves)

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Starr, he was disagreeing with you. I've been here long enough to be very familiar with the shape of this episode: Starr says something that's both false and illogical; people respond by pointing out the numerous problems in Starr's post; Starr repeats the same, still false and still illogical arguments without actually responding to any of the critique; eventually, Starr claims that everyone else is too dense to understand him/her and that he/she "is not going to waste his/her time on this anymore"; despite this promise, Starr continues to make the same non-arguments; finally, someone says something in critique of Starr and Starr jumps on the opportunity to claim that he/she was really saying this all along, and so you see he/she "was right bout some things" ;)

It doesn't get any better with repetition--just more predictable.

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by Starr

I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do :)

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Don't think I need to touch this one. ;)

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You don't understand ;)

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No, I "understand" just fine. See above.
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He knew where I was coming from on the arguement shza, something you still don't understand.

And I wasn't agreeing with him either. I applauded him for seeing where I was coming from and offering up what he did, and then I put my disagreement in the post below it. Read before you speak ;)