simple for me Sweet pea beats Mayweather at lightweight and anyone else
if someone can beat him it is Mosely
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simple for me Sweet pea beats Mayweather at lightweight and anyone else
if someone can beat him it is Mosely
I agree with you that Mayweather was faster than Whitaker but you have done more coke than Pernell if you think Mayweather has faced better opposition than Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Azumah Nelson, Buddy McGirt, Julio Cesar Chavez, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Oscar De la Hoya and Felix Trinidad would mop the floor with ANYONE Floyd has faced so far. (Oh and yes I am aware that Hernandez beat Nelson - though let's be serious, Nelson was 38 years old).
There you have 4 great fighters (Nelson, Chavez, DLH and Tito - 3 of whom he beat IMO). Floyd has yet to even face a great fighter.
Mosley hits harder then Tito does he?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
If Tito couldnt KO a past it Sweetpea.
Then theres no way in hell Mosley is gonna KO a Prime Pernell.
Shane mosely at lightweight is five times faster than tito at any point in his career..and ko'ed 29 out of 31 fighters at that weight...sweet pea doesn't and never did hit hard enough to impede the onslaught of punches that mosley would have sent his way and this would have been a late stoppage....Quote:
Originally Posted by IronDanLaw
I said more good opposition, and JCC never floored Castillo when he was his head sparring partner... alot of people actually said they were about even once Castillo got better. McGirt was not better than anyone he fought.. I think Judah would have beaten McGirt if Judah came in the same way he did against Mayweather. He is too fast, and too strong for McGirt who also lost to Meldrick Taylor. DLH was still young, and one handed I am sure he would have beaten most people Mayweather has faced, but he would have been given troubles by Castillo once again unless he cut him. Tito rocked Pernell, and so I was being nice not bringing him up. At lot of the guys Pernell fought had good, but padded records like Ramirez who had over a 100 wins, but lost against any big names he faced. I think Pernell is great, but I also think Mayweather beats any of the guys Pernell fought. The only guy I give alot of props to who Pernell fought was Azumah Nelson who I've been watching, and is quite good, but not as on ATG's as that one guy told me.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Pernell could easily hit hard enough to keep Mosley off of him... He kept Vazquez off him, and Vazquez had an iron chin, and was way stronger than Mosley. Once again Mosley didn't really fight anyone at lightweight so it was easy for him to get almost all ko's. Roy JOnes Jr. who even fought better competition than Mosley at middleweight was still 23-0(21). It isn't hard for somebody with amazing speed, and good punching power to get alot of ko's against mediocer opponents. Now Mosley had troubles in terms of stamina and match up wise against Holiday, and after that I felt his lightweight dominance was greatly overrated. Pernell would have foughten small, and his footwork would have given Mosley absolute fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
It always amazes me how people think if two great fighter face off, one is just going to easily win. Pernell never fought anyone with the speed and power of Mosley. Mosley never fought anyone as slick and defensively strong like Pernell. It would have been a great challenge for both fighters. Both where fantastic fighters at that weight.
The people on this thread saying that Mosley would win probably weren't even watching boxing in the Pernell Whitaker era. The guy could not be hit and he faced many explosive boxers, you saw what he did to Chavez. Mosley, Mayweather nor Meldric Taylor would have beaten him. He alway's showed up at his best in his mega matches and that's why I respect him so much.
i'm sorry but i think a a slick southpaw like pernell would give PBF problems
Listen Shane is one of my fav fighters and it was his Lightweight days that made me a fan of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
But there is no way in hell that Mosley at 135 would of stopped a Prime Pernell Whitaker.
black mamba dropped pernell..shane mosley would ko him....shane mosley is easily faster and stronger that any light weight that was fighting at those times...i mean didn't he ko vargas a natural LMW with one punch?
and pernell beating vasquez was more like roy beating ruiz too slick and defensive for the bigger slower opponent....
whoever said that those that say mosley would win is because we've never seen sweet pea fight is wrong .... I could say that those that say pernell would win is only because according to older people the new or later eras could never beat the old guys...
lennox and holyfield ko's ali
rjj crushes archie, foster, and would nearly kill gibbons and conn at LHW also he'd beat hagler at MW...
mosely kills pernell, chavez, duran, pryor, arguello at 140 or below...
Name one element of the sport of boxing where Evander Holyfield is superior to Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
What do you mean by more good opposition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Let's break it down:
Pernell faced these champs/ex-champs
Alfredo Layne
Roger Mayweather
Jose Luis Ramirez (x2)
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Jorge Paez
Azumah Nelson
Juan Nazario
Rafael Pineda
Buddy MCGirt (x2)
Julio Cesar Chavez
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Diosbelys Hurtado
Jake Rodriguez
Oscar De la Hoya
Felix Trinidad
I've already mentioned that Whitaker has faced four great fighters.
PBF has faced these champs/ex-champs:
Genaro Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Gregorio Vargas
Diego Corrales
Carlos Hernandez
Jesus Chavez
Jose Luis Castillo (x2)
Arturo Gatti
Sharmba Mitchell
Zab Judah
Carlos Baldomir
Not one great fighter there, but Castillo is arguably borderline. So what makes Mayweather's comp better?
When was Castillo sparring with Chavez? What years? During his decline in the mid to late 90's? If Castillo met a prime Chavez I have little doubt as to who would come out on top. He did pretty much everything better than Castillo.Quote:
and JCC never floored Castillo when he was his head sparring partner... alot of people actually said they were about even once Castillo got better.
He would have lost the first 3 rounds, but then what? Judah put about 4 good rounds together that fight. The rest he looked very average. You are free to think Judah is better, but I'll have to disagree. Buddy never gets reduced to split decisions with 40 year old Pinedas and 35 year old Baldomirs. Buddy's win over Simon Brown is a better masterclass performance than anything I've seen from Zab. He lost to Meldrick? Well, he did have an inner ear infection, but that aside I think he loses to Meldrick anyway. And oh, so does Zab.Quote:
McGirt was not better than anyone he fought.. I think Judah would have beaten McGirt if Judah came in the same way he did against Mayweather. He is too fast, and too strong for McGirt who also lost to Meldrick Taylor.
When did DLH become a two handed fighter? I must have missed that transition. I don't think he has done anything welterweight and up that has been better than what he did at 135 and 140. If I was to pick a DLH at his prime I would say his peak was at 140. He gained experience as he got older, but I still think young Oscar was the best Oscar there was.Quote:
DLH was still young, and one handed I am sure he would have beaten most people Mayweather has faced, but he would have been given troubles by Castillo once again unless he cut him.
So what, Demarcus Corley rocked Mayweather, and if I'm not mistaken Mayweather wasn't 35 years old and fresh out of drug rehab at the time. And if my memory serves me well, Corley wasn't a good let alone great fighter like Tito.Quote:
Tito rocked Pernell, and so I was being nice not bringing him up.
Ramirez's record was padded but I don't think he is any worse a fighter than Jose Luis Castillo. Have you seen Ramirez's 2 fights with Rosario? I thought he won both. Have you seen his fight with Arguello? That could have gone either way. He even gave Chavez a decent fight in a losing effort. he had wins against the likes of Boza Edwards on top of that as well. I don't think Jose Luis Castillo would have done any better than Ramirez had he been in his era.Quote:
At lot of the guys Pernell fought had good, but padded records like Ramirez who had over a 100 wins, but lost against any big names he faced.
I think Chavez (especially given the trouble he had with Castillo) and Tito beat Floyd, and DLH and Nelson are even bets to beat him.Quote:
I think Pernell is great, but I also think Mayweather beats any of the guys Pernell fought. The only guy I give alot of props to who Pernell fought was Azumah Nelson who I've been watching, and is quite good, but not as on ATG's as that one guy told me.
I expect Floyd to make a past his best DLH look silly come this May though.
Are you kidding me, you think Alfredo Lane 15-12 wsa good? Roger Mayweather had no chin, and wasn't all that great. Ramirez had padded record. Pendleton was a joke as was Nazario. Paez was ok, but not much better than Gatti. Vazquez was respectable, and I give Pernell credit for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Half the ex champs Whitaker fought were chumps. Some of those guys you have up there are absolutely horrible, and about Castillo vs. JCC I agree JCC would have won, but not by a landslide. Castillo would have given him alot of trouble. Also Ramirez got his ass handed to him by both Camacho and JCC. I haven't seen the Arguello fight so I won't comment on that. Also how can you say Mayweather was rocked by Corley? He was hit, but he wasn't rocked at all... His legs didn't bend, and he didn't have shaky legs after that, but not only that he also came right back and hurt Corley. AFter that he didn't respect Corley's power at all so I say your wrong there. If a flush Judah cross can't hurt him then how can Corley's. Also ODLH became a much better overall fighter as time progressed. At lightweight and 140 he didn't do much. At 147 is where he beat JCC the first and second time along with "Whitaker", Quartey, and Camacho, but he lost to MOsley. At 154 he learnt how to use his right hand and box which allowed him to beat Trinidad, and Mosley though he was robbed both times, but his second fight against Mosley and his fight against Trinidad IMO were his best fights in comparison to opposition level. He also faced Bernard Hopkins won of the top 5 best middleweights ever and was boxing even with him until the size differential weighed in, and against Sturm he didn't look prepared. How can you see clumsy footed Tito beats Mayweather. I could see Chavez giving you a good arguement considering how Castillo preformed against a Mayweather with broken ribs, and torn shoulder, and his like second fight at the weight, but JCC wouldn't beat Mayweather on his best night unless Mayweather had his worst. DLH would never stand up to Mayweather at any point of his career and neither would Nelson you mention guys barely on the top 100 list while MAyweather should be in the top 10. I am not saying Mayweather is much better than Pernell Whitaker, but he is better, and because he is more focused it would make the fight even more one sided.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist