Joe Calzaghe

Joe Calzaghe could be great, but no-one can say for sure one way or the other because he hasn't had the fights to back up these claims. For me he has the potential to be one of the greatest, but is let down by his inability to secure big fights. Someone mentioned earlier that US fighters seem to get the bigger fights mopre easily, but is this to do with it being the US or with the fact that Frank Warren is controlling fighters like Calzaghe? Lewis never had any trouble getting big fights, and Naz looked to be on his way up (until Barrera) and they were both british (please no comments about the Canadian thing). As for Calzaghe, only time will tell, but it's time that's running out fast for the welshman, and all this talk of fighting Berrio next has me worried that he will never get in the ring with a decent, well-respected tested name that is in their 'prime'. That is the only way that he can shut people up, assuming that he wins of course...

On another small note, why on earth are Winky and Hopkins jumping stright over the SMW division? Is this some sort of slight on Calzaghe or simply the fact that they want nothing to do with the man because of his 'hidden potential'?

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Originally Posted by althetruthhindley

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

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NO IM NOT HAVING A LAUGH I AM PASSING MY VIEWS ON TO YOU AND READING THE OTHER POST MOST AGREE WITH ME DICKHEAD!!!!!!

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Listen shithead ! when you put down your computer games get your head out of your ass you will realise the difference between somebody who has the desire and skill to make 20 defences at the same weight against good fighters and somebody who was a fleeting talent on the supermiddle Radar 10 years ago .

Toney is a fat lazy disgrace its people like you that buy into trash talking and back somebody just because they appear to back themselves !!

Not so !!

Toney failed miserably when he had to step up to the plate for his superfight against Jones and was humiliated !!

That told you all you need to know about Toney at Supermiddle he struggled with other fighters too Prince Charles Williams being one that sticks in the mind untill to his credit he pulled it out .

Dont go on like toney was some great fighter denied his shot at greatest he had his shot(s) and he blew it he didn't have the focus whereas Joe has kept that at supermiddle for 10 years BARELY losing a round !!

BTW im aware that Jones was much better than Lacy but Joe still put on a clinic whereas Toney stumbled into the Ring a fat bloated disgrace !!

Thats what the initial question was Joe and Toney at SUPERMIDDLEWIEGHT!

Toney lost plenty of rounds and was often behind on the cards before late turnarounds .

Toney also didnt like educated pressure and would often go to sleep in fights because of his poor stamina ( his words )

In yr post you say something to the effect ' Toney proves if you lose you just get back in the ring ''

So a rough translation is you lose 3 in a row to alsoran fighters spend 5 years in the wilderness and then comeback a bloated Cruiserweight .

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

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Originally Posted by althetruthhindley

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

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NO IM NOT HAVING A LAUGH I AM PASSING MY VIEWS ON TO YOU AND READING THE OTHER POST MOST AGREE WITH ME DICKHEAD!!!!!!

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Listen shithead ! when you put down your computer games get your head out of your a** you will realise the difference between somebody who has the desire and skill to make 20 defences at the same weight against good fighters and somebody who was a fleeting talent on the supermiddle Radar 10 years ago .

Toney is a fat lazy disgrace its people like you that buy into trash talking and back somebody just because they appear to back themselves !!

Not so !!

Toney failed miserably when he had to step up to the plate for his superfight against Jones and was humiliated !!

That told you all you need to know about Toney at Supermiddle he struggled with other fighters too Prince Charles Williams being one that sticks in the mind untill to his credit he pulled it out .

Dont go on like toney was some great fighter denied his shot at greatest he had his shot(s) and he blew it he didn't have the focus whereas Joe has kept that at supermiddle for 10 years BARELY losing a round !!

BTW im aware that Jones was much better than Lacy but Joe still put on a clinic whereas Toney stumbled into the Ring a fat bloated disgrace !!

Thats what the initial question was Joe and Toney at SUPERMIDDLEWIEGHT!

Toney lost plenty of rounds and was often behind on the cards before late turnarounds .

Toney also didnt like educated pressure and would often go to sleep in fights because of his poor stamina ( his words )

In yr post you say something to the effect ' Toney proves if you lose you just get back in the ring ''

So a rough translation is you lose 3 in a row to alsoran fighters spend 5 years in the wilderness and then comeback a bloated Cruiserweight .

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really ?? against who ??

hehe this is getting heated lol
Toney never ducked anyone and wasnt afraid of losses on his record.
Can we say the same for Calzaghe ??????
i think not !!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

What ifs?!?! What ifs?!?! How about this what if! What if Calzaghe fought real opposition!

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i got one for you what IF didn't hadn't priced them selves out;)?

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It is always the same lame excuse "they priced them selves out"LAME LAME >:mad >:mad

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Originally Posted by jangeorg

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

What ifs?!?! What ifs?!?! How about this what if! What if Calzaghe fought real opposition!

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i got one for you what IF didn't hadn't priced them selves out;)?

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It is always the same lame excuse "they priced them selves out"LAME LAME >:mad >:mad

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YEA WHEN U MAKE MILLIONS THERE COMES A TIME WHEN U SHOULD BE MORE INTERESTED IN YOUR LEGACY THAN MONEY , IF U WANNA BE GREAT THEN FIGHT THE BEST

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

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I am sorry are you Joe Calzaghe? Or Frank Warren??.....

At superMiddleweight James Toney would have gave Calzaghe a beatdown that would have given him a permenant studder....Don't confuse thise heavyweight version of James Toney to that of the Super middleweight version....Two comletely different fighters...

Only Roy Jones was able to beat that version.....

And if you even attempt to put Joe Calzaghe anywhere near the super middleweight version of Roy Jones I suggest you enter a 28 day program to sober up

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A patronising post, backed up by very little. I politely disagree with the main bulk of this posting. :)

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Disagree all you want but fact is that Joe Calzaghe should not now or ever be compared to James Toney as far as his career goes....Please explain to me what has Calzaghe done to be in the class of Toney?,,,,,The hell with that swim to NY and fight any of the so called contenders what the hell is that supposed to mean?.....

Joe and his injuries when ever the proposition of a big fight against a genuine top level opponent has wore itself thin...If Calzaghe has all these balls and all this ability then lets see it.....James Toney and Roy Jones have proven their worth over the years.....

I actually thought after the Jeff Lacey fight ( Who was not great fighter but always a dangerous puncher) we were going to see a new side of Calzaghe....But what has he done since?.....I rate his record up there with that of Valuev...Looks good on paper but thats about it....

Excuses have run out...The injury problem does not work anymore...If you are hurt that much the RETIRE!!!!......Funny how he is OK to fight Peter Manfredo....Funny how when the fight was first proposed that Joe was talking just as much B***S*** as Warren about what a great fighter Peter was and how much of a dangerous opp he was but after a massive amount of criticizm he started acting like the fight was pushed on him....Only after the press dogged him.....

Toney is a true legend he has earned that right to be one...Time and again...Even as a fat a** hw.....

Joe has become the king of excuses and the prince of safety just under Valuev

Sorry you don't agree Miles but that is how I feel about him...His track record speaks for itself

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Right here goes. It must first off be understood that in talking about about Calzaghe and Toney, we are indeed talking about 2 of my favorite fighters. Toney has undoubtably achieved more. Considerably more. Toney has beaten many top tier fighters, and likewise come unstuck against a few others. Calzaghe's level of opposition has not been on that with Toney. I never have at any point ever stated this. So I think my response to your post has become a little twisted by some other posters as a response to the starting argument of this thread.

Calzaghe to his credit has defended his title with effortless ease over a long time. Having won his belt he has beaten a number of ex champions and also manged to unify against Lacy. He has beaten decent fighters. And IMO only Reid has come close to getting anywhere near a win over Calzaghe. Calzaghe wins rounds and fights with relative ease. Nobody has been able to take him to the limits. Nobody has been good enough.

We could argue that Calzaghe never fights the "big" fights. Who should he have fought? Hopkins for one. But didnt Hopkins get deep into negotiations but then price himself out at the last moment? Hopkins has continued his career by bypassing SMW altogether. Jones himself has mentioned Calzaghe on occasion too. We all know Jones and Hopkins have big egos and it cannot be easy to negotiate with them. Everyone would have loved a second Jones: Hopkins fight. Of course, it wasnt to be. Making those big fights is never easy. It hasnt all been the fault of the opposition though. Glenn Johnson always brings out the hand injuries in Calzaghe. And Joe's reluctance to travel is of course another issue. If you want the fights then get out of the safety zone and make it then!!! I want him to fight Kessler more than anyone. Its not easy being a Calzaghe fan!

My point in this thread was not to point out Joe's greatness but to merely say that I think a Toney: Calzaghe fight at SMW is a pick em between 2 extremely talented fighters. Toney was a great but he himself fought light opponents sometimes and failed to show up. Vinson Durham, anybody? Or else Larry Prather? These guys were bums and managed to go the distance with Toney. Toney frequently failed to show up because of a lack of conditioning. There is no denying how skilled the guy was, but he had faults. In fact it pains me to dig at Toney because I love the guy, but thats how it really is. Calzaghe is a very skilled boxer but not enough opponents on the resume. I know this. Toney has plenty of names and did get shown up on the odd occasion. It just comes down to where your instincts go in a fight like this.

It remains a pick 'em for me....

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

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I am sorry are you Joe Calzaghe? Or Frank Warren??.....

At superMiddleweight James Toney would have gave Calzaghe a beatdown that would have given him a permenant studder....Don't confuse thise heavyweight version of James Toney to that of the Super middleweight version....Two comletely different fighters...

Only Roy Jones was able to beat that version.....

And if you even attempt to put Joe Calzaghe anywhere near the super middleweight version of Roy Jones I suggest you enter a 28 day program to sober up

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A patronising post, backed up by very little. I politely disagree with the main bulk of this posting. :)

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Disagree all you want but fact is that Joe Calzaghe should not now or ever be compared to James Toney as far as his career goes....Please explain to me what has Calzaghe done to be in the class of Toney?,,,,,The hell with that swim to NY and fight any of the so called contenders what the hell is that supposed to mean?.....

Joe and his injuries when ever the proposition of a big fight against a genuine top level opponent has wore itself thin...If Calzaghe has all these balls and all this ability then lets see it.....James Toney and Roy Jones have proven their worth over the years.....

I actually thought after the Jeff Lacey fight ( Who was not great fighter but always a dangerous puncher) we were going to see a new side of Calzaghe....But what has he done since?.....I rate his record up there with that of Valuev...Looks good on paper but thats about it....

Excuses have run out...The injury problem does not work anymore...If you are hurt that much the RETIRE!!!!......Funny how he is OK to fight Peter Manfredo....Funny how when the fight was first proposed that Joe was talking just as much B***S*** as Warren about what a great fighter Peter was and how much of a dangerous opp he was but after a massive amount of criticizm he started acting like the fight was pushed on him....Only after the press dogged him.....

Toney is a true legend he has earned that right to be one...Time and again...Even as a fat a** hw.....

Joe has become the king of excuses and the prince of safety just under Valuev

Sorry you don't agree Miles but that is how I feel about him...His track record speaks for itself

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Right here goes. It must first off be understood that in talking about about Calzaghe and Toney, we are indeed talking about 2 of my favorite fighters. Toney has undoubtably achieved more. Considerably more. Toney has beaten many top tier fighters, and likewise come unstuck against a few others. Calzaghe's level of opposition has not been on that with Toney. I never have at any point ever stated this. So I think my response to your post has become a little twisted by some other posters as a response to the starting argument of this thread.

Calzaghe to his credit has defended his title with effortless ease over a long time. Having won his belt he has beaten a number of ex champions and also manged to unify against Lacy. He has beaten decent fighters. And IMO only Reid has come close to getting anywhere near a win over Calzaghe. Calzaghe wins rounds and fights with relative ease. Nobody has been able to take him to the limits. Nobody has been good enough.

We could argue that Calzaghe never fights the "big" fights. Who should he have fought? Hopkins for one. But didnt Hopkins get deep into negotiations but then price himself out at the last moment? Hopkins has continued his career by bypassing SMW altogether. Jones himself has mentioned Calzaghe on occasion too. We all know Jones and Hopkins have big egos and it cannot be easy to negotiate with them. Everyone would have loved a second Jones: Hopkins fight. Of course, it wasnt to be. Making those big fights is never easy. It hasnt all been the fault of the opposition though. Glenn Johnson always brings out the hand injuries in Calzaghe. And Joe's reluctance to travel is of course another issue. If you want the fights then get out of the safety zone and make it then!!! I want him to fight Kessler more than anyone. Its not easy being a Calzaghe fan!

My point in this thread was not to point out Joe's greatness but to merely say that I think a Toney: Calzaghe fight at SMW is a pick em between 2 extremely talented fighters. Toney was a great but he himself fought light opponents sometimes and failed to show up. Vinson Durham, anybody? Or else Larry Prather? These guys were bums and managed to go the distance with Toney. Toney frequently failed to show up because of a lack of conditioning. There is no denying how skilled the guy was, but he had faults. In fact it pains me to dig at Toney because I love the guy, but thats how it really is. Calzaghe is a very skilled boxer but not enough opponents on the resume. I know this. Toney has plenty of names and did get shown up on the odd occasion. It just comes down to where your instincts go in a fight like this.

It remains a pick 'em for me....

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:goodpost: :coolclick:

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

Thanks, Ice Cold. You will get a click back in the next hour or so when Karma relents ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

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At super middleweight...nobody! :-\

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Because I know what Toney can do with top notch opposition and Calzaghe better be able to do the same with top not opposition (which is unproven, except for once (maybe)). So with that in mind, of course I would lean towards Toney.
YOu can't tell me that fighting all these no-name fighters doesn't take credit away from a boxer. A truly great champion that wanted to fight the best/could have or would have by now. That is not debateable. He is in love with fighting at home against poor opponents. Which is fine and I respect that. But when you compare prime fighters against each other, I would take it into consideration. It is silly to even compare prime vs. prime fighters against each other without taking into consideration the opponents opposition in the past. If you didn't do that what do you want to base your judgement on???? Sparring? Workouts? Interviews??

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not arguing with you, but what more could of calzaghe done? kessler aside coz i think time will tell on this one.. but befrore that what more could he have done? he signed a contract nd was ready to go to the us to fight hopkins, he went to denmark on a tyson undercrad to build his name up in the states... Regardless of how 'overrated' lacy was now, he was 'the best' at the time and got spanked for 12 rounds...

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

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I am sorry are you Joe Calzaghe? Or Frank Warren??.....

At superMiddleweight James Toney would have gave Calzaghe a beatdown that would have given him a permenant studder....Don't confuse thise heavyweight version of James Toney to that of the Super middleweight version....Two comletely different fighters...

Only Roy Jones was able to beat that version.....

And if you even attempt to put Joe Calzaghe anywhere near the super middleweight version of Roy Jones I suggest you enter a 28 day program to sober up

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A patronising post, backed up by very little. I politely disagree with the main bulk of this posting. :)

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Disagree all you want but fact is that Joe Calzaghe should not now or ever be compared to James Toney as far as his career goes....Please explain to me what has Calzaghe done to be in the class of Toney?,,,,,The hell with that swim to NY and fight any of the so called contenders what the hell is that supposed to mean?.....

Joe and his injuries when ever the proposition of a big fight against a genuine top level opponent has wore itself thin...If Calzaghe has all these balls and all this ability then lets see it.....James Toney and Roy Jones have proven their worth over the years.....

I actually thought after the Jeff Lacey fight ( Who was not great fighter but always a dangerous puncher) we were going to see a new side of Calzaghe....But what has he done since?.....I rate his record up there with that of Valuev...Looks good on paper but thats about it....

Excuses have run out...The injury problem does not work anymore...If you are hurt that much the RETIRE!!!!......Funny how he is OK to fight Peter Manfredo....Funny how when the fight was first proposed that Joe was talking just as much B***S*** as Warren about what a great fighter Peter was and how much of a dangerous opp he was but after a massive amount of criticizm he started acting like the fight was pushed on him....Only after the press dogged him.....

Toney is a true legend he has earned that right to be one...Time and again...Even as a fat a** hw.....

Joe has become the king of excuses and the prince of safety just under Valuev

Sorry you don't agree Miles but that is how I feel about him...His track record speaks for itself

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Your right, when the manfredo fight was anounced joe should of said then what a joke it was and how it should not be happening, i mean if that didn't get the fans excited about the fight id on't know what would!

there is no question about who has the greater record, Toney does by a mile there is no question about that! the question was about who wins if they fought. Marciano had one of the worest records and faced some of the worest oposition that any undisputed champion, yet you hardly ever see a heavyweight great list without him on it.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Come on Daxx that is a little harsh.

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Then maybe he shouldn't jump on the bandwagon in a debate he has nothing to do with...If he actually participated in the debate or had something actual to say then yes it would have been harsh and I would have never said what I said...But if your going to jump in and Just make a comment to stir up trouble then no it's not harsh...He didn't have a reson to just jump in and post what he did....

"He never back's his post up because he probably can't" I think was his exact words...Now I may be crazy here but that sounds like a sarcastic comment if I ever heard one.....If your going to dish it your going to get it back....

I am usually a fair guy....but I won't just sit and be insulted.....Miles was stating his opinion and I respect that...Preme was just stirring up trouble and thats all there was to his post

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Just stating my opinion, and last time i checked i was free to post my opinion on these open forums, doesn't say jack in the rules that if daxx is debating a topic that then only one person at a time can say something - unsluting? was u not long ago who started this shit when coming out with a comment that you had forgotten more about boxing than i know.

Funny thing is you talk about me jumping on a bandwaggon and not making an original post, yet your the one who posts the same crap about calzaghes record, or him not fighting out of the UK every chance you get, and when the debate is about calzaghe facing toney - when asked why toney wins you change it and talk about toneys record.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

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At super middleweight...nobody! :-\

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Thats My whole point !

Toney is a talent but he is not what he could have been by a long long chalk .

I just can't understand how bypass a division and then get soft fights at heavy and be called a great .

Toney did nothing at Lightheavy , very little at Supermiddle, and after 5 years fighting in boxing backwaters won a cruiser title !

That does not for a minute in my mind make him an ATG.

I was not a fan of Lennox Lewis but he was an all time great he beat the best time and time again and stayed champ despite massive obstacles .

Toney is not worthy of such high esteem .

Good yes great no .