Things just got a lot hotter at 200+ lbs...will you, the fans, take notice?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Wow...all that cursing & so little substance. What a chicken S*** answer that was. You need to break out that giant sombrero & hide up underneath.

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Well read between the lines Wacko. What I meant was....

If Nicolay Valuev fought Wladimir Klitschko it would mean Nicolay would be fighting the best boxer, hardest puncher, fastest puncher, biggest fighter, and best athlete of his whole career whereas Wladimir would just be fighting the biggest fighter he's ever fought and as Ray Austin and others have found out Wladimir doesn't have trouble with taller fighters.

As for Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney....Dempsey didn't fight black fighters, he had 5 title defenses. Gene Tunney did a great job at 175 and only had a few fights at heavyweight. Great fighters though by all means but I think Rocky and Louis are better

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Tunney would have beaten Louis and Marciano. Louis went life and death with another light heavy in Billy Conn who was nowhere near Tunney's league and Marciano struggled with Ezzard Charles, another light heavy to say nothing of that fact that he should have lost to La Starza.

Marciano and Louis were fortunate enough to rule in the wekaest era's of boxing history. Jack Johnson would have schooled them both, Ali would have made Louis look foolish and would have tired out and knocked out Marciano.

Look at Marciano's record, his biggest win was over a 38 Walcott who needed 4 attempts to win a world title himself. He was the oldest ever heavyweight champ until Foreman regained the title in the 90's and nobody on earth would regard the 90's George Foreman as being anywhere near his prime.. A prime Walcott would have beaten Marciano FACT, La Starza would have beaten him if there had not been that weird supplemental points system in place during their fight FACT.

Joe Louis only ever beat Max Schmelling, and got knocked out by him first time around. There are no other great genuine heavyweight names on his record, just light heavies like Billy Conn.

They are both the two most overratted boxers in the history of the sport.

Gene Tunney had 4 to 6 fights at heavyweight only 2 vs a top level guy....a washed up and rumored to be POISONED Jack Dempsey!

Marciano was good and he had a great workrate

Joe Louis struggled with Conn and maybe he'd struggle with Tunney but Louis' power and the speed and effectiveness in which it was delivered would really make a difference.

You forget Louis beat Walcott, Max and Buddy Baer, James Braddock, and Jack Sharkey....all good heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Gene Tunney had 4 to 6 fights at heavyweight only 2 vs a top level guy....a washed up and rumored to be POISONED Jack Dempsey!

Marciano was good and he had a great workrate

Joe Louis struggled with Conn and maybe he'd struggle with Tunney but Louis' power and the speed and effectiveness in which it was delivered would really make a difference.

You forget Louis beat Walcott, Max and Buddy Baer, James Braddock, and Jack Sharkey....all good heavyweights

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'good' being the defining word.

He never beat a 'great' fighter in his entire career. You really think any of the greatest heavies in history would have trouble with the 4 you mentioned there?

I'm suprised you didn't throw in Carnera!

.....yes but Jack Dempsey had a THREE YEAR LAYOFF the first time he lost to Tunney, and of course in the rematch there was the infamous LONG COUNT

So is Tunney still untouchable when he had to work hard to beat a guy who had a 3 year layoff???

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Originally Posted by Lyle

.....yes but Jack Dempsey had a THREE YEAR LAYOFF the first time he lost to Tunney, and of course in the rematch there was the infamous LONG COUNT

So is Tunney still untouchable when he had to work hard to beat a guy who had a 3 year layoff???

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No I think a prime Dempsey could have taken Tunney and like you say there was the famous knockdown although that was Dempsey's own fault for not going to a neutral corner.

But you are missing my point.

I said they would BOTH beat Joe Louis.

Dempsey, Tunney, Jack Johnson are all better than Louis and Marciano imo.

My top 5 of all time.

1. Ali
2. Jack Johnson
3. George Foreman
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Joe Louis (on achievement not on who he could beat)