Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
And Peyton is greater than Marino. He is the evolution of Marino. The only thing Peyton doesn't do better than Marino is get rid of the ball. Marino's release was unreal, but Peyton is amazing. If Bill Belichick weren't so damn good, he would have at least one more championship, and bet Peyton wins at least one more before he's done.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by SeanE
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
As far as i'm concerned, its almost football season. I'm pretty sure you know who's gonna be my number 1 but i dare you to prove otherwise.
1. Brett Favre (Green Bay)- Most consecutive starts among quarterbacks (the second most injury prone position in the sport). Future owner of every passing (and just about everything else) record thats measurable. He's a lot more mobile than people give him credit for. He's also pretty high up there on the 4th quarter comebacks list. He's got the stats, the ring, and the intangibles that make a great quarterback. He's the most untechnically sound qb that nobody shows films of when teaching young qb's how to play and takes more risks than any other qb and they usually pay off.
2. John Elway (Denver)- All time most sacked quarterback in nfl history 512 if thats not toughness i dunno what is. When you couple that with his stats, the fact that hes the all time leader in 4th quarter comebacks, and the lack of talent he had around him, you have to put him high on the list especially after his storybook ending to his career.
3. Joe Montana (San Fransico)- Had his fair share of 4th quarter comebacks and was the best qb under pressure. 16-7 in the playoffs... There's some teams that haven't won 16 playoff games yet. Not a big armed qb who single handedly redefined what the quarterback position was about. He took importance off of power and emphasized accuracy and technique.
4. Dan Marino (Miami)- Put up stats like you wouldn't believe and if he had a ring, he'd be #1 without question.
Here's a spot that troubles alot of people. Bradshaw, Aikman, Kelly, Young, and Starr are the usual suspects here because they were more or less dynasty qb's but im gonna go out of the box:
5. Rich Gannon (Oakland and many other places)- Now here's a guy who could do it all. Side Arm, OverHand, w/e the third thing is called. If he was put in a west coast offense set earlier, He'd of been unbelieveable. Now this is an odd pick for most because he didn't win alot for most of his career and only had a few good years once he was in oakland. He got beat in a superbowl because the opposing teams coach basically knew his playbook and what he was gonna do before he did it. If you don't think he was a great qb, look at what oakland turned into once he left. They struggle to win any games let alone playoff games. They went from one of the best teams to the absolute worse team. The sign of a great qb is how hard he is to replace. They haven't done it yet in Denver, Miami, Oakland, San Fransico, Dallas, or Buffalo and Green Bay is gonna be facing that same problem soon enough.
Rich Gannon over Tom Brady? That was a joke, right?
Other than Gannon, that's decent list of post 1980 QB's, and it's hard to rate quarterbacks of previous era's against post 1980's qbs. To make my top 5, in no particular order, I would remove Gannon, obviously, and and Tom Brady. Then I would remove Dan Marino, and add Manning, because he never won it all, as great as he was. It might be unfair, and he would on my top six, but he gets penalized for never winning the big one.
If I had to pick one, I would have to give it to Elway and Montana. I can't pick just one. Elway and Montana tie for number one in my book. Once Brady wins his next Superbowl, this year, he'll make the leap take over first place by himself.
Brady doesn't belong in the top 20 because hes overrated to no end and as a matter of fact one of brady's superbowl rings should belong to gannon. And i really hope putting manning over marino was a joke. If marino ran into a team with a quarterback as terrible as rex grossman i'm sure he'd have a ring too. Only reason peyton even made it to the superbowl is because tom brady can't work his "magic" when its actually up to him to win the game (when they are down by more than 3).
Gannon might not of had the success or stats of other greats but he was one of the most solid pure pocket qb's of all time. He threw it overhand, Sidearm, and a third way which i have no idea what its called. Brady throws screen passes and puts up laughable stats. One of his best seasons is him completing 60% of his passes with 24 tds and 12 ints. A 24 td season isn't a superstar qb by anymeans, thats a guy that manages a game. He doesn't have an amazingly strong arm, and if the nfl management wouldn't of pulled for the patriots to win, gannon would have bradys first ring and there would be no "Dynasty" talks.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
three quarters??? That's halfway inbetween overhand and sidearm.....I still don't know why you would want a QB to throw that way....being a former lineman myself bringing the ball down is bad which is why there are very few short QB's.
Rich Gannon was good but not as good as say Troy Aikman and say what you will about his weapons....a good QB knows how to use them and damn if he didn't.
I think you're just a pissed off Raider fan....tell us your honest opinion of the "tuck rule" ;D
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
Exactly...pissed off and bitter Raiders fan. Brady ain't overrated at all. He and Peyton are one and two right now. You want to argue that Peyton is better, I'll talk to you. You want to argue that Prime Brett Favre was better, we can talk. Want to tell me that Carson Palmer will be better by the time he's done, I might listen. Let me Gannon is in the same class as Brady, you are total fan-boy. If you take Brady off the list, you better take off Montana, too.
Aikman was be better, for sure. Gannon was a decent QB and he was fun to watch, but you lose all credibility by saying that he's a top 5 alltime guy.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
did anyone said steve young cause hes the shit
thee best lefthnder ever in my top 5
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by Lyle
three quarters??? That's halfway inbetween overhand and sidearm.....I still don't know why you would want a QB to throw that way....being a former lineman myself bringing the ball down is bad which is why there are very few short QB's.
Rich Gannon was good but not as good as say Troy Aikman and say what you will about his weapons....a good QB knows how to use them and damn if he didn't.
I think you're just a pissed off Raider fan....tell us your honest opinion of the "tuck rule" ;D
I've never been raider fan nor will i ever be but anyone who doesn't think that play was fumble is an idiot. I've never sen the tuck rule enforced any other time than that one. The rule is (and has always been except for one playoff game in 2001) that if the ball comes out before the quarterbacks hand starts moving forward (this means that even if the quarterbacks hand is moving in a wind up motion backwards) its a fumble. Brady's hand was not moving forward when the ball came out so it was called a fumble on the field and should've remained a fumble. The raider football team only got better since gannon left aside from the qb spot and look what happened. Its not hard to win when you're throwing to michael irvin and have the nfls all time leading rusher in your back field.
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Exactly...pissed off and bitter Raiders fan. Brady ain't overrated at all. He and Peyton are one and two right now. You want to argue that Peyton is better, I'll talk to you. You want to argue that Prime Brett Favre was better, we can talk. Want to tell me that Carson Palmer will be better by the time he's done, I might listen. Let me Gannon is in the same class as Brady, you are total fan-boy. If you take Brady off the list, you better take off Montana, too.
Aikman was be better, for sure. Gannon was a decent QB and he was fun to watch, but you lose all credibility by saying that he's a top 5 alltime guy.
Look how the exact same team did since gannon left (actually an improved roster over everything except qb). No i'm not gonna take montana off because montana lead several clutch game winning drives. Brady has won three superbowls but take a look back at their last possesions in those three games. 2 were won by field goal (one a 48 yarder. Great job on getting them close mr clutch. Viniteri is clutch, brady is not) and 1 was put in corey dillions hand's to run out the clock (thats right, they didn't even let mr clutch try to convert a 1st down to run out the clock solely in their possesion. Running down the clock is good strategy but you have to atleast try to convert a first down if their stuffing the run. You cant run down the clock when you have to punt.)
In closing, at the very least Gannon is underrated (maybe not top 5 but i think far too many people underrate him severly). Brady is way too overrated (show me a game where he lead a game winning drive where the team was down by more than 3. The only one i can think of is disqualified from being chosen because brady shouldn't of had the ball on account that it was a fumble that oakand recovered. And so you know i've been a green bay fan since i've started watching football.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan
;D
You better believe it. :)
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
There are not a lot of great black quarterbacks are there? Or black quarterbacks period. Plenty at just about every other position, just not quarterback. Damned if I know why that is. As far as I can see, Warren Moon is the only one that gets a mention here. He totally dominated in the CFL, with five consecutive Grey Cups, before he left for greener pastures.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
My favourite Qurterbacks were the American Cheesburger flavours ones
I think you can still get them for about 10p a pack in some places
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
I've never been raider fan nor will i ever be but anyone who doesn't think that play was fumble is an idiot. I've never sen the tuck rule enforced any other time than that one. The rule is (and has always been except for one playoff game in 2001) that if the ball comes out before the quarterbacks hand starts moving forward (this means that even if the quarterbacks hand is moving in a wind up motion backwards) its a fumble. Brady's hand was not moving forward when the ball came out so it was called a fumble on the field and should've remained a fumble. The raider football team only got better since gannon left aside from the qb spot and look what happened. Its not hard to win when you're throwing to michael irvin and have the nfls all time leading rusher in your back field.
I have seen the tuck rule enforced since then but never in such a big situation.
I hate the protection all the offensive players get...and I played offense! Like boxing you're supposed to protect yourself at all times and when you don't it's your own fucking fault...QB's should have helmet to helmet hits EVERYONE ELSE DOES!!!
Smith was very good and so was Irvin and so was Moose and Novacek and so was their defense but Aikman was no slouch, he did damn good...he fit right in with those guys....I mean obviously they paid him to stay there they could have gotten a cheaper QB but it wouldn't have worked out the way it did had he left or been let go
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by zzz
There are not a lot of great black quarterbacks are there? Or black quarterbacks period. Plenty at just about every other position, just not quarterback. Damned if I know why that is. As far as I can see, Warren Moon is the only one that gets a mention here. He totally dominated in the CFL, with five consecutive Grey Cups, before he left for greener pastures.
Thats because the quarterback position is the whitest position in sports. ;D He either hands off to a running back (usually black) who runs the ball or he throws it to a wide receiver (again usually black but white receivers are more common than white running backs) who has to catch the ball in traffic most of the time and while the receiver does all the work, the qb gets credit for whatever the receiver does after he catches the ball. The qb could throw a 1 yard pass from the two yard line and if the receiver breaks 10 tackles and does some insane moves to gane the other 97 yards to the endzone, its awarded to the quarterback as yardage and a touchdown pass.
But on a serious note, There have been highly successful black quarterbacks before (moon, cunningham, hell i'll even throw in mcnabb and culpepper) its just that they are usually more built for other positions (which usually pay more).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
I've never been raider fan nor will i ever be but anyone who doesn't think that play was fumble is an idiot. I've never sen the tuck rule enforced any other time than that one. The rule is (and has always been except for one playoff game in 2001) that if the ball comes out before the quarterbacks hand starts moving forward (this means that even if the quarterbacks hand is moving in a wind up motion backwards) its a fumble. Brady's hand was not moving forward when the ball came out so it was called a fumble on the field and should've remained a fumble. The raider football team only got better since gannon left aside from the qb spot and look what happened. Its not hard to win when you're throwing to michael irvin and have the nfls all time leading rusher in your back field.
I have seen the tuck rule enforced since then but never in such a big situation.
I hate the protection all the offensive players get...and I played offense! Like boxing you're supposed to protect yourself at all times and when you don't it's your own fucking fault...QB's should have helmet to helmet hits EVERYONE ELSE DOES!!!
Smith was very good and so was Irvin and so was Moose and Novacek and so was their defense but Aikman was no slouch, he did damn good...he fit right in with those guys....I mean obviously they paid him to stay there they could have gotten a cheaper QB but it wouldn't have worked out the way it did had he left or been let go
I haven't seen the rule enforced from that moment but of course you probably see different football games down there than i do because of the way the tv deal is set up. Qb's have the highest rate of concussions and its odd because eventhough qb's are considered small by football standards, they are usually 6'2+ and over 220 pounds, thats not a wimp. I'm not saying aikman was a talentless qb who just got thrown in a good situation that anybody could win with i'm just saying he had more help than marino, elway, favre and a many others. Of course a wide receiver can't do anything if the ball doesn't get to him.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
Marino had GREAT wide outs, Elway had GREAT wide outs AND a running game, Farve had some good wide outs and good running game.
But you never know when the QB makes the other guys great or the other way around.
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Marino had GREAT wide outs, Elway had GREAT wide outs AND a running game, Farve had some good wide outs and good running game.
But you never know when the QB makes the other guys great or the other way around.
True but you need some d too. I'm not gonna lie to you that '96 gb team was stacked with freeman, rison and levens (i think that was it. probably got the wrong name again but he had a decent rb.) On the other side he had reggie white and a few more decent people (i didn't watch this superbowl for some reason). I don't recall marino or elway having stellar defenses for a large portion of their career. To be honest with you i think the defense favre has now is probably the best he's ever had (aside from maybe the early 2000's when he had sharper and mckenzie as well as one of the most insane o-line's ever assembled)
Re: Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
Yeah Dorsey Levens #25 he played college ball at Georgia Tech....but that D was badass