Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Where he made his mistake is that he said he would only fight in a war declared by Allah or the Messenger. To be exempt as a CO, you must believe in no wars. His was a religious stand based on spurious logic. That said, those of us who were drafted during that volatile time had mixed (but not) stong feelings about what he did. Most of us were more concerned about getting out in one piece than worrying about what a boxer did, Hindsight is 20/20 vision. I give this a treatment in my forthcoming book if I can ever get it to print. The plain fact is if he had been drafted, his risk-Reward equation would have been nil, as he would have fought exhibitions ala Joe Louis during WW TWO.
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
"elvis(the king) went.. nobody is above the u.s. military.. " unless you could afford college to send your kid there..or you had connections(cough) Bush (cough)Clinton didnt serve either...hmm I guess the people who feel the strongest about these policies shouldnt fight.....or their children.What is the point of sending him? Morale for the troops? You would think the cause they are willing to kill another human being for would be reason enough. Just the same old if your not with us your against us mentality.
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
by the way cc to everyone who has posted in this thread...I didnt even think I would get that many replies, but I guess it a pretty big topic...I even got sidetracked lol
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Ali was a great fighter. A great champion. But that's about it. He was not a great person. And he sure as hell was no hero. Ali looked out for Ali. And that's it. He had nothing to do with if the military draft is use or not. To give him credit for it is hilarious.
His life was threatened. Figures were getting shot left and right. And this kid kept winning, despite all that.
There's top p4p fighters who lose and give excuses, valid ones too, that court problems hurt them mentally for a fight.
What's a hero? Nobody chooses to be a hero, the people choose you.
Maybe he did look out for himself. He certainly had the b@lls to talk, Shout with confidence and conviction... when "whites" (not all, but it was certainly many... many of our grandparents or great were invovled.) were saying that he and his race were inferior and had no right to talk with confidence.
Think about it.
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Ali was a great fighter. A great champion. But that's about it. He was not a great person. And he sure as hell was no hero. Ali looked out for Ali. And that's it. He had nothing to do with if the military draft is use or not. To give him credit for it is hilarious.
His life was threatened. Figures were getting shot left and right. And this kid kept winning, despite all that.
There's top p4p fighters who lose and give excuses, valid ones too, that court problems hurt them mentally for a fight.
What's a hero? Nobody chooses to be a hero, the people choose you.
Maybe he did look out for himself. He certainly had the b@lls to talk, Shout with confidence and conviction... when "whites" (not all, but it was certainly many... many of our grandparents or great were invovled.) were saying that he and his race were inferior and had no right to talk with confidence.
Think about it.
so it gave him the right to be racist???...
like VD he was a great boxer great champ... if he is your hero? well like you said people picks their own heroes to emulate
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
"elvis(the king) went.. nobody is above the u.s. military.. " unless you could afford college to send your kid there..or you had connections(cough) Bush (cough)Clinton didnt serve either...hmm I guess the people who feel the strongest about these policies shouldnt fight.....or their children.What is the point of sending him? Morale for the troops? You would think the cause they are willing to kill another human being for would be reason enough. Just the same old if your not with us your against us mentality.
only poor people figth wars huh.. ::**
whatever dude was this the point of this thread??
to give your weaka$$ political views that college kids say about war...
I wont commit or look at this thread anymore....
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Ali was a great fighter. A great champion. But that's about it. He was not a great person. And he sure as hell was no hero. Ali looked out for Ali. And that's it. He had nothing to do with if the military draft is use or not. To give him credit for it is hilarious.
His life was threatened. Figures were getting shot left and right. And this kid kept winning, despite all that.
There's top p4p fighters who lose and give excuses, valid ones too, that court problems hurt them mentally for a fight.
What's a hero? Nobody chooses to be a hero, the people choose you.
Maybe he did look out for himself. He certainly had the b@lls to talk, Shout with confidence and conviction... when "whites" (not all, but it was certainly many... many of our grandparents or great were invovled.) were saying that he and his race were inferior and had no right to talk with confidence.
Think about it.
so it gave him the right to be racist???...
like VD he was a great boxer great champ... if he is your hero? well like you said people picks their own heroes to emulate
It gave him the right to stand up for himself.
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quakers are given an automatic pass due to religous conviction
Of course theyre mainly white and non-scary,so wheres the contreoversy there
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
I always wondered why Ali just didn't fight overseas during the three years...I've read the biography, but I don't recall a real explanation.....anyone know?
I don't know...but might ISLAM have played a part in it? Or the people involved in it that were in Ali's ear?...
I'm not sure I follow. What would Islam have to do with him fighting outside the US during his ban? He would have continued to make money and even if he was not the title holder still be the peoples champ. I mean post ban the guy fought outside the US how many times? 3-4 times...why not during the ban?
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I won't even argue anymore...just go ahead....let's all follow Ali, greatest ever....let's never question ANY of his decisions.....the decision has been made so start following everyone....everyone fall in line
Way to take the low road while pretending to take the high one
How many hours of Oreilly do you watch a week?
didnt you just slam him for not keeping politics out of this... what does oreily have to do with anything?? way to keep politics out
lyles point is that ali is a hypocrite.... his profession is to beat people up... but he is against violence...when its benificial for him
ali could have served the country that gave him so much.. and tour the world boxing just like louis... there wasnt going to be any battles he would have to fight in.... but he had to be a self-centered dick take the money from the american soldiers that paid for his fights.... but in return wouldnt even give them a free match for their service for FIGHTING FOR HIM....
he should have been banned from boxing... why should america give him anything...when he wouldnt give america anything... he is a border line traitor
To: punisher... he wasnt allowed in the military because he didnt do well on his (well he was book stupid)... but to fight exhibitions around the world ..yeah i think your intellegance is irrelevant when your a champ and could do good morale for your country by boxing..
i have never agreed with one of violent demise's statements more... he is dead on!!!
sorry no contest: for not staying on point... its very hard to speculate about the 3 years... it was his prime... but then again it left him fresher for the later years.. not the real, real, late years.. i dont think he would have been know as any better boxer though... he could have had bad luck and got beat by frazier and foreman in a row... its not like ali just dominated them.. if he lost to them and not of been banned his "what if" status would have been gone...
the "what if" factor is marciano's biggest attribute... who really knows how good he was... he was never beat...what if
The NFL is a very violent sport
Send the Colts to Iraq
we dont have a draft going on or they would...
whats your point??? why did u highlight my statement.. your commit didnt say anything about my statment...
elvis(the king) went.. nobody is above the u.s. military..
back to ali's three years away from his prime...
I highlighted nothing
Oh yeah,OJ,Bob Griese,Csonka,Bradshaw,Namath,Starr what a freaking miracle,they all avoided the Nam
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
"elvis(the king) went.. nobody is above the u.s. military.. " unless you could afford college to send your kid there..or you had connections(cough) Bush (cough)Clinton didnt serve either...hmm I guess the people who feel the strongest about these policies shouldnt fight.....or their children.What is the point of sending him? Morale for the troops? You would think the cause they are willing to kill another human being for would be reason enough. Just the same old if your not with us your against us mentality.
only poor people figth wars huh.. ::**
whatever dude was this the point of this thread??
to give your weaka$$ political views that college kids say about war...
I wont commit or look at this thread anymore....
What do Dick Cheney,George W Bush,Pat Buchanan,Dan Quayle,Newt Gingrich,Clarence Thomas,and George Will all have in common?
Hint:They never got to visit a country my father did,at least not in war-time
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Pete Rose,Steve Carlton,Nolan Ryan,Bob Gibson,Tim McCarver,Lou Alcindor,Wilt Chamberlain,Tom Seaver,Reggie Jackson,Catfish Hunter,Blue Moon Odom
Damn every single one of them must have pulled up lame like Pat Buchanan,or had a pinoidal cyst like Rush
Damn the luck,the only two healthy athletes in all of America during the draft was an uppity muslim,and a backup Fullback(Rocky Blier,all respect to Blier)
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Why dont you look into the make-up of the American Army , I dont think you'll find many enlisted millionaires. Please dont read this thread anymore I wouldnt want you to have to question your all mighty opinion.
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quakers are given an automatic pass due to religous conviction
Of course theyre mainly white and non-scary,so wheres the contreoversy there
General Nathaniel Greene (the reason my city is named Greensboro) was a Quaker from Rhode Island and he was a GENERAL in the Revolutionary War and he didn't have the best things to say about the Quakers of RI who cared for the British as well as the Patriots.
Greene was possibly the best General of the Revolution and he was a Quaker he fought for something he believed in.
Trust me, very few people in the North believed in fighting to free the slaves in the Civil War but they had to or they were arrested.
There will always be people who want to fight and always people who don't want to fight....in every nation in every era only the way we deal with it changes
Re: Ali's stand against the U.S government
I don't mind that Ali didn't go to Vietnam....hell after 1967 many people DIDN'T go there.
But he's not my hero and he broke the law....that's the way I see it and that's the way I will always see it, he could have gone to college, gone to Canada, joined the National Guard or whatever but he took a POLITICAL STAND and he paid the price, no one told him to do it, he just did it.......and then he called people WHITE DEVILS......sorry to disagree with that as well because as a white person I find it offensive but oh wait....people can offend me but I cannot offend them because I am a white devil and this is the way of the world now.
I'm not a racist or a bigot but the world makes it hard to see people as individuals and Ali's actions make it hard for me to approve of anything he said or did during his time....but I feel for how the government treated joe Louis because Joe Louis was an AMERICAN and not a ______-American, be it muslim, african, italian, spanish, etc American.....I think that liberalism has split people up more than it has brought them together and I'll prove it if you want me to
