Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
P4P,I don't have Winky top 3 anymore:
Floyd
PACMAN/Hopkins
Rafa
Winky?
As for all time,NO WAY is B Hop top 15. I don't remember who said that but I TOTALLY disagree. He's been great,he's dominated who he has fought but facts are facts. His biggest wins have come over smaller guys. He lost twice to JT(that's what it will say when you open the record books)Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnso,Winky,these are all good names but not names which make an ATG top 20 imo.
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Well like its commonly said you can only judge a guy by who was available to fight...I'm sure if we look hard enough we could find some guys that Bhop could have fought but didn't, but for the most part he has fought everyone available and beaten almost all of them
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
I scored bernard that high gamo..
And personally i think its more then just bieng a fighter that will determine you when it comes to all time rankings
For example if Ali was polite and nice as pie then he probably wouldnt be half the legend he is..
Bernard is garaunteed a strong legacy..He has huge character.. Perhaps 15 is a bit high but as far as his legacy goes it will be very strong.. And who knows it may get bigger before he hangs them up ;)
He and a couple of others will be the utmost greats of this generation
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Other than Roy who would yall say has been a more accomplished fighter than BHop in the last 20 years?
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
I scored bernard that high gamo..
And personally i think its more then just bieng a fighter that will determine you when it comes to all time rankings
For example if Ali was polite and nice as pie then he probably wouldnt be half the legend he is..
Bernard is garaunteed a strong legacy..He has huge character.. Perhaps 15 is a bit high but as far as his legacy goes it will be very strong.. And who knows it may get bigger before he hangs them up ;)
He and a couple of others will be the utmost greats of this generation
Character is irrelevant to me man. But very very true,he is the best fighter of this generation and he still has time to become an even bigger legend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Well like its commonly said you can only judge a guy by who was available to fight...I'm sure if we look hard enough we could find some guys that Bhop could have fought but didn't, but for the most part he has fought everyone available and beaten almost all of them
Very true but then again,you look at the other side,if those were the only guys available then that's just bad luck on his part,it still does not make him top 15 ATG. A bit like Rocky Marciano. Great fighter no doubt but how does his resume compare to the other great HW and P4P greats?I see this debated all the time.
I DEFINTELY think he is an ATG but my point was no way was he top 15.Not with the guys he has beaten ,regardless of why,those are the only guys he has fought.
Re: Where do you rank B-Hop?
I'm bad at these sorts of things but I would put him in the top 5 for sure
Re: Where do you rank B-Hop?
I don't think he is above Roy Jones Jr. IN their prime Roy would have beat him badly. I thought WInky would have won, but Bernard won the only way I thought he could... by being old school.
Re: Where do you rank B-Hop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I don't think he is above Roy Jones Jr. IN their prime Roy would have beat him badly. I thought WInky would have won, but Bernard won the only way I thought he could... by being old school.
Even I believe that if Hopkins and jones met in their prime, jones would beat him 9 times out of 10 but in terms of legacy I believe hopkins at this moment has a more profound legacy with middleweight defense record, opponents like oscar, tito, tarver & winky and also doing it at 42 years old.
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
I think Hopkins should know be #5 & Wright #6.
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
Greb has to be in the equation
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
No other middleweight beat more Hall of Fame middleweights than Robinson did!
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
No other middleweight beat more Hall of Fame middleweights than Robinson did!
To be honest though big stars like Robinson make stars of their opponents when they lose to them. Some of his hall of fame opponents are probably there by virtue of beating Robinson, a circular argument.
Robinson lost his middleweight title 4 times, Monzon never, Hopkins and Hagler once...........
plus look at guys like Basillio, Olsen, Turpin, Duran and Hearns and it's hard to make a case for any of them beating Hopkins imo.
