Logically why the universe cannot be infinite in size.

cool click here Kkisser. +298

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Mathematics and the invention of the Unit and number are undoubtedly feats of human ingenuity. Numbers and text are man's two greatest and most complex inventions. However, the number system and the formulae associated with it is flawed.

For example, the space race. Why did it take so long to reach space and the moon etc. Because the number system we have in place is flawed, Take pi for example. To most people that complete second and third level education this is the most exact numerical figure they will ever deal with. However, in the space race, when pi was utilised in an attempt to reach the moon it was found that the implementation of pi would result in the spaceship ending up thousands of miles in the wrong direction.
Or the common "TAN" function on a scientific calculator. Log tables, textbooks, all educational publications preach that the Tangent of 45 degrees = 1. However play with this function enough and it will alter, the calculator will eventually start showing up a different figure. Why? because the numerical system and its formulae conflict, they dont 100% equate.They may suffice our needs, such as construction, common calculation and estimation, but they certainly do not meet the requirements necessary for operating outside of out own enviroment

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I think Hitmandonny wins the award for the man I least expected to understand calculus and advanced mathematics award.

Just goes to show you can't judge a person by their avater ;)

I owe you another in 24

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Um i got a pretty good understanding of most things,

HahA the photo is it? ya i look dumb thats for sure :)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok this a problem for the more curious amongst you Punisher etc but it is always said that the universe is infinite in size.

I however disagree with this as being scientifically impossible and I'm wondering who agrees with me?

If we believe the scientific model that the universe started from a Big Bang, then literally at the beginnning there was nothing. Now when the universe exploded into existence it began to expand according to science.

Now here's my problem. If something starts from somewhere, i.e has a beginning it can never be infinite in size or any other way, just not possible.

You cannot expand yourself to infinity because you'd never get there. By expanding you'll always be bigger than you were before but not as big as you are soon going to be, kind of like Bigaru or Boxing Gorilla :P


Anyways imagine it with numbers, if you start at 1 you cannot ever get to infinity by adding numbers because there will always be a higher number out there.

If the universe started from a tiny fixed point and has expanded ever since it cannot be infinite in size. If you could trace it back 15 billion or so years to the beginning (according to science) and it would be so small you could hold it on an eye of a needle then how can it be infinite in size now?

Not possible, it's just very very very very F****** big but not infinite.


Thankyou. :soapbox:

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Well thats your theory, heres mine:



I believe that electrons and neutrons are to a cell, what planets & suns are to a solar system.
Solar systems are to a galaxy what cells are to an organ.


My point being, that everything is part of a bigger body. And that body is part of a bigger community of bodies, which inturn makes an entity that we can not comprehend.
IMO the chain only goes on. And on. And on and on and on... an Infinate chain of bodies & organisms.

whew, this infinity thing is beyond my understanding. Let's talk about how we love to watch boxing.hehehe.

The whole universe thing seems confusing, but i reckon if we got into a discussion into the weird decisions in boxing we'd be far more baffled.

I always enjoyed this song and I thought it fit perfectly into this conversation.

THE HIGHWAY MAN

I was a highwayman. Along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five
But I am still alive.

I was a sailor. I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide.
I sailed a schooner round the Horn to Mexico
I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still.

I was a dam builder. Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around..I'll always be around..and around and around and
around and around

I'll fly a starship across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again..

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I always enjoyed this song and I thought it fit perfectly into this conversation.

THE HIGHWAY MAN

I was a highwayman. Along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five
But I am still alive.

I was a sailor. I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide.
I sailed a schooner round the Horn to Mexico
I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still.

I was a dam builder. Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around..I'll always be around..and around and around and
around and around

I'll fly a starship across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again..

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Awesome song - and relevant. CC!

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Originally Posted by amat

Dreams are another thing that are fascinating.

You can pop all the shrooms or take all the acid hits you want, you won't get anything the quality of your dreams.

2 nights ago I had a dream that Mike Myers was chasing me after seeing the new halloween and then my entire city turned into a swamp. If someone had a trip and said that happened, I would never believe them. Since it was a dream it's not hard to believe at all.

The fact that most people don't even unlock all of their mind in a lifetime is unbelievable.

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Everyone uses a great deal of it either 90 or 98%. Even the primitive reptile part of the brain is used in modern humans so whatever the remaining unused portion is, whether it be just extra space for shock absorption or an extra part that can be used but not very easily, your guess is as good as mine. A dream is, IMO, the brain simulating life whether you want to have input into it or not. The fact that the human brain is nearly capable of going thru the motions of life without a conscious willful person behind it is really odd.

Obviously dreams won't have proper physics or very logical events (from a real life perspective) but the difference between completely lucid dreams and being "awake" is negligible. At certain points, it's possible to have a completely lucid dream that you either control mostly of what happens (the other stuff is subconscious stuff that just shows up) or not only do you control exactly what you do (all 5 sense work and you either know you're dreaming or are completely aware in the dream state as if it were real), but you also tap into your subconscious to the degree that you know what it's thinking and you can think faster than it by knowing what it's gonna insert into your dream before it happens. I've had several lucid dreams, very few mostly controlled ones, and about 2 or 3 completely aware of everything going on in my mind dreams. You ever jump or wake up right before the alarm or loud sound of something hits your ears? My guess is you just somehow know the sound is on its way but the speed required for the brain to get that information and react to it faster than it takes the speed of sound (750ish mph) to travel a few inches or feet is unbelievable.

I have horrible sweating fits at night. I can lay nude in front of a fan with no blankets and the window open and wake up drenched in sweat.

It's the result of a medication and it is terrible. Bad Dreams too.

Every time i get ill i have a recurring nightmare. I can recall having it since i was maybe three years of age. I cant remember much except for the colour of the nightmare and the sound. Weird?

that's your subconscious. maybe there was a time when you were sleeping and something bad happened. it was saved in your subconscious memory.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

that's your subconscious. maybe there was a time when you were sleeping and something bad happened. it was saved in your subconscious memory.

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Dunno but its interesting. Nightmares are a good way of indicating if i'm stressed, sick etc.

i have also these dreams since childhood. In one of my dreams, I am picking coins. Then, I also have this recurring dream that I am going up to the sky through a stair.Sometimes, I fly. don't know what those dreams mean but I usually feel light and happy every time I wake after those dreams.

My friend a psychologist keeps urgin me to record all my dreams for her studies. But i started to forget and she was able to tell that i was making them up from prvious patternns!

so I must be making up those dreams. I have read somewhere that when someone dreams about flying, it means he wants to have sex.hehehe.