PAvlik vs Wright?

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Listen Wright is a good fighter but at higher then 154 he just not as great as he was and that is all i got to say Wacko i see Winky losing

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He defeated Trinidad, Soliman, Quartey, & argueably Taylor all at 160lbs.

He handled the volume of Soliman, the skills of Quartey, & Taylor's toe to toe best.

None of those are pushovers & Winky shut down a power puncher in Trinidad pretty easily with nothing more than his defense & a jab.

We'll have to chalk this up as a disagreement that will not be answered until the end of their match up.

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Trinidad is Natural Welterweight.

Soliman is goodish at best he has akward style but no punching power.

Quartey is Natural Welterweight.

Taylor hurt Wright and Taylor has nowhere near the punching power of Pavlik.

But i do agree Wright is no walkover for anyone and reason Vargas had alot of success against Wright because he went to do body alot Pavlik like you said does not go to the body that much and is mostly head hunter but i still think Pavlik would win by decision.

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Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Listen Wright is a good fighter but at higher then 154 he just not as great as he was and that is all i got to say Wacko i see Winky losing

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He defeated Trinidad, Soliman, Quartey, & argueably Taylor all at 160lbs.

He handled the volume of Soliman, the skills of Quartey, & Taylor's toe to toe best.

None of those are pushovers & Winky shut down a power puncher in Trinidad pretty easily with nothing more than his defense & a jab.

We'll have to chalk this up as a disagreement that will not be answered until the end of their match up.

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Trinidad is Natural Welterweight.

Soliman is goodish at best he has akward style but no punching power.

Quartey is Natural Welterweight.

Taylor hurt Wright and Taylor has nowhere near the punching power of Pavlik.

But i do agree Wright is no walkover for anyone and reason Vargas had alot of success against Wright because he went to do body alot Pavlik like you said does not go to the body that much and is mostly head hunter but i still think Pavlik would win by decision.

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#1: Trinidad carried his power up with him...so that's a moot point.
#2: Soliman is more than goodish. Yes he's awkward with little punching power & so are many other fighters that are contenders.
#3: Quartey...agree he's a natural welter...but Wright is a natural light middle.
#4: Taylor did hurt Wright...but Wright was still in the game & he wasn't hurt to the point of being mat material. Punching power is not the only factor in boxing. As I said...a good defense & jab negates power 9 times out of 10.
#5: I like Pavlik...but he's got some improving to do prior to being labled a great or a worthy middle champion.

I wouldn't count anyone like Wright out based on him knocking out Taylor (flawed) or Miranda (one dimensional) or the others that he stopped.

I just think that skill wise...he's limited compared to Wright.

I could be wrong...have been before.

Listen Wacko Trinidad was done after the Hopkins fight he was a shell when he got Winky and his power did not carry well in middle weight and all of Winky's big wins came against people were he had the size advantage against and he has not beat better fighters or accomplished more then Pavlik has at middle weight and when you say one dimensional fighter or flawed he was beat by Vargas who was a come forward guy and could be hit easy and i have Vargas winning that fight by a point and it was a not a robbery so do not cut down Pavliks opponents when Winky has not beat better fighters at middle weight then Pavlik has so to me i think Pavlik has more then enough to win a fight with Winky and thats all i will say about that

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Listen Wacko Trinidad was done after the Hopkins fight he was a shell when he got Winky and his power did not carry well in middle weight and all of Winky's big wins came against people were he had the size advantage against and he has not beat better fighters or accomplished more then Pavlik has at middle weight and when you say one dimensional fighter or flawed he was beat by Vargas who was a come forward guy and could be hit easy and i have Vargas winning that fight by a point and it was a not a robbery so do not cut down Pavliks opponents when Winky has not beat better fighters at middle weight then Pavlik has so to me i think Pavlik has more then enough to win a fight with Winky and thats all i will say about that

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Ahhhhhhhhh cry me a river.

As I previously said...this is a wait & see fight. Since that’s all that you will say about that…read the last post that you tossed up.

If you compare the opposition at 160lbs & don’t think that Wright faced better fighters…something’s wrong with your powers of deduction. Also…toss Hopkins in that barrel at a catch weight…that really punctuates your train of thought.

Trinidad like Pavlik consentrates on power too much & falls apart when pressed against someone with game & defense. Many feel that Vargas lost that fight & got the win based on his HBO contracts...just like De la Hoya got by for Hopkins against Sturm...you don't know anymore than I do & it's all just speculation on both parts.

Also…I never said that Pavlik didn’t deserve to be where he is or anything like that. You just got all defensive during a discussion between myself & Ice…odd that you popped into that.

Hmmmmmmm…oh well…anyways, as I stated before…Pavlik is a force to be reckoned with but he's faced some really limited & flawed fighters defensively. Wright's an entirely different animal when on game than Pavlik could ever be.

I just don't think that Wright's an easy TKO.

Hello wacko i never said easy ko my friend and you are bias if you say Winky was robbed because i not the only one that thought Vargas one the fight it could of gone either way depends how you look at it sorry it pisses you off what i said but i am sorry you are all knowing right

If you don't mind me jumping in here, I like to think Pavlik can come out the victor, but as i stated in an earlier post alot of it has to do with how Wright approaches this fight. He could outbox Pavlik and use the ring all night, as we know Pav will come forward all the time. It's not that Pavlik doesn't pose a threat, but he is simplistic in his approach and a veteran like Winky could give him major problems. If he tries to bang with Kelly, forget it, but he won't. Alot of what Kelly benefits from is his size, coupled with high workrate and very good power. But if it wasn't for his size I think he would have already beenn beaten, especially by guys like Taylor or Wright. He isn't a finesse guy, just a come forward beat/wear you down type who's desire is unquestionable; but a good boxer with size similar to Kelly will probably beat him. This is the type fight Kelly needs, to see where he stands and make him realize his flaws. I would imagine Kelly knows he has flaws but will keep doing it his way until he loses. He's a good champion but not unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination.

Ok who has Winky beat at middle weight that at the moment was better then Taylor, Hopkins lost to Taylor twice and Winky tied with Taylor then won against Quarty and then lost to Hopkins and he has not beat the better guys at middle weight and Trinidad was a shell when they fought and no one has given Pavlik problems yet he so i do not get your why you bring Trinidad with Pavlik because Pavlik has not been troubled yet

Height,weight,power,size.strength,range,all favour in of Kelly..And I've seen some indicate that Kelly is jab,jab right hand. I presume they have not seen alot of Kelly's fights? He digs well the body,has a big uppercut too.

Like I mentioned before,Winky lost to Vargas,because he was getting tagged to the body. Kelly would do the same but hits harder and throws more. I HIGHLY doubt Wright could take Kelly pounding on him for 12 rounds. JT shook Winky a few times,Kelly hits much much harder. The size difference is just too much, and I don't see what anyone has mentioned in Winky's favour nor anything which would indicate he could win. He doesn't have the power,and to keep an animal like Pavlik off,that;s what you need(or good lateral movement a la Calzaghe)

Winky is a great fighter and has overall faced better fighters than Kelly,but then again,so had Taylor. Anyone who stands in front of Pavlik at 160 is not winning imo.

CC El Gamo very well put someone that points out that Pavlik is not just a head hunter and can get down to the body just as good and also i agree that a guy like Joe would be the guy to give Pavlik the most problems even more so then Hopkins and Kess might be good as well because he pretty solid fighter and has the power that could trouble Pavlik that would be a fight that i like to see be a pretty gory fight and i would love to see it

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Hello wacko i never said easy ko my friend and you are bias if you say Winky was robbed because i not the only one that thought Vargas one the fight it could of gone either way depends how you look at it sorry it pisses you off what i said but i am sorry you are all knowing right

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Hey babe...I'm just talking here...you don't have it in you to piss me off...don't flatter yourself.

Now, that being said...if you don't open yourself up to the possibility that that fight was so close on the cards & that many boxing pundits who favored Vargas up until the match & during gave it to Wright...then you my friend are ocularly challenged.

Thanks...I'm glad you consider me "knowing all right"...as you so ignorantly put it...you might want to read the below post... ::**

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

It'll have to be a "wait & see'er" for me.

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If you can't understand that...it means that I will have to wait & see before I am convinced of either winning or losing to the other.

Fair enough i will just have to wait in see i guess and when i hear cry me a river i did not get what your saying because all i did is state the opposition and their success at middle weight so i do not get were i was out of line with that one thats all

I think Looking at only offense for the most part for Pavlik might be, With all due respect to some top minds and fans ......Over simplifying Things abit.
Look, I think the world of Kelly,I respect him immensely and think that he can bring a renewed fanfare that this great sport NEEDS.Hes the type of fighter that the first time you see him,You start searching and hunting for his fights and bios.Sh!! if they had an action figure and Lunch-box Im buying that for my nephews lol.
1+1 = 2.yes,everywhere but in boxing.Myself included on this,I think Everyone should look at the BIG picture here and take a DEEP BREATH on Pavlik.He Is at the brink of huge fights,big $$$,Super stardom AND more Importantly Big time talented Opponents that are just as hungry.....and MUCH MUCH more experienced fighters who have faced superior opponents all in all.Power ,even from a naturally bigger man,can be nullified with superb boxing and guile.
Now IF Wright fights stupid and Gos forward on Pavlik Trying to prove he hits harder......all bets are off ;) He can be 100 percent sure Pavlik will walk forward with a two fisted assault with defense 2nd priority.Wright has the skills to Box him and show him a whole nother level and EVERY man can be hurt on any given day......except Marion Wilson ;D Hope it happens ,Good clash of styles.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Listen Wacko Trinidad was done after the Hopkins fight he was a shell when he got Winky and his power did not carry well in middle weight and all of Winky's big wins came against people were he had the size advantage against and he has not beat better fighters or accomplished more then Pavlik has at middle weight and when you say one dimensional fighter or flawed he was beat by Vargas who was a come forward guy and could be hit easy and i have Vargas winning that fight by a point and it was a not a robbery so do not cut down Pavliks opponents when Winky has not beat better fighters at middle weight then Pavlik has so to me i think Pavlik has more then enough to win a fight with Winky and thats all i will say about that

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I said cry me a river due to the way you approached your "point of view".

You call me a "know it all" or whatever...but you seem to be forcefully asserting your point of view as the end of the matter...& that's just not the case.

Your'e opinion is your opinion...but don't go trying to act like "your word is bond" & that that's that...because at the end of the day all discussions are nothing more than opinions.

Wnky is a fighter that is campaigning two to four weights out of his division & has faced the best in those weights...again...I say that he's fought better opposition...but again...that is just my opinion & I am open to debate about it...but maybe not so matter of factly from you.

Well you could also say you saying that ice had a moot point because he said Trinidad carried was a natural welterweight and then you say he carried his power but i say he did not have the power at middle weight to fight the way he fought in the lower weights that means he lost power along the way and just i say that is all i have to say about doesn't mean i am right or wrong it means that was all the points i think i need to make so you know were i stand did not say you were wrong or no one else post their opinions stop taking what i said and say there was a hidden message when there was not

And if you think that i think i am right all the time you are very mistaken i know when i make a mistake and will fess up to it and i am sorry if you did feel the way i posted was like that is the bottom line because i did not mean that in no way shape or form and cc for your thoughts i watch how i type next time