Miranda vs Kessler - ALMOST A DONE DEAL!

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Originally Posted by Pantera

Great news!
The Kessler team came back to the table and everyone has agreed to the important numbers. Showtime will pick this up for a May 10 fight.

A great fight for us fans and a win win situation for the fighters.

I couldnt be happier! I hope my boy can prove his weight at 160lbs was an issue and he is gonna back bigtime at 168lbs.

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I hope you're right, but do you have a link to support this? I'm not seeing an agreement being reported anywhere.

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Originally Posted by liquid

You can't prove that by me. Mayorga managed to beat a champion and defend his title. That's the only difference I see between the two.

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Excellent point

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Originally Posted by Pantera

Miranda won the IBF champion from Abraham (just not offically) and defended it successfully twice. ;D

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That was pretty lame

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

That was pretty lame

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Come on VD, beating Willie Gibbs is what defines a TRUE champion! :biglaugh:

I think Kessler would smoke Miranda, by the way.

Right. Not officially. If Miranda hadn't slapped Abraham's balls around he might have an argument.

OK... some changes are happening (might be pished back a few weeks) but looking good to happen!

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Originally Posted by ono

I think this will be a closer fight than many expect. I remember Miranda landing some absolute gems on Pavlik.

If the same happens to Kessler, who knows.


Does Kessler have the same level of determination and heart as Pavlik? Can he absorb the shots just like Pavlik did? And can he fire back with enough power and intensity as Pavlik did?

I think a lot on here just remember him being ko'd but the fight was very close. Pavlik's chin and heart kept him in that fight.

There is a chance Kessler can dominate with straight punches. But there is also a chance that he could unravel if he's hurt. Nobody has ever seen him in a situation like that.....so it could be very interesting.

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I usually agree with your posts, but I think your dead wrong here, along with many others in this thread. I don't see those "gems" Miranda landed on Pavlik at all. Taylor landed a couple of gems on Pavlik, Miranda didn't come close to those kind of shots. The fact is, that whole fight Pavlik was the one backing Miranda up. The entire time. And Miranda does not pack his power when he is on the back foot. He connected with Pavliks chin plenty sure, but go back and really watch the way his feet were set at the time. They were almost all arm punches he was throwing. It was definetly an action packed fight, but it was also one sided in my view. Pavlik's chin and heart did not keep him in the fight, his own power, jab and technique dictated the fight. I think it's honestly pretty funny how much of a chance people are giving Miranda in this fight. It just proves to a tee that boxing really is about what a fighter has done for you lately. People are talking about how this is so gutsy for Kessler to take as a comeback fight, and that he's never fought anyone like Kessler, etc. For christs sake, Kessler lost a COMPETITIVE UD to Joe Calzaghe, where he landed some wicked uppers and right hands throughout. Calzaghe is on a completely different plane than Miranda in general, not to mention he is naturally bigger. The last time Miranda was in against a remotely quality fighter he got KTFO. Let's get real here, please. Is a KO over David Banks supposed to vindicate him as a SMW threat? This is ridiculous imo. Kessler has WAY too much for Miranda, not only in terms of overall ability but stylistically. Miranda is going to eat straight punches down the middle something fierce. The question will be whether he can take them. I really don't think so at all. Kessler is bigger and stronger than Miranda and probably even Pavlik, with his accurate conventional style how the hell is Miranda about to make him go backwards? He won't, and if he tries he'll get timed on the way in with right hands.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I usually agree with your posts, but I think your dead wrong here, along with many others in this thread. I don't see those "gems" Miranda landed on Pavlik at all. Taylor landed a couple of gems on Pavlik, Miranda didn't come close to those kind of shots. The fact is, that whole fight Pavlik was the one backing Miranda up. The entire time. And Miranda does not pack his power when he is on the back foot. He connected with Pavliks chin plenty sure, but go back and really watch the way his feet were set at the time. They were almost all arm punches he was throwing. It was definetly an action packed fight, but it was also one sided in my view. Pavlik's chin and heart did not keep him in the fight, his own power, jab and technique dictated the fight. I think it's honestly pretty funny how much of a chance people are giving Miranda in this fight. It just proves to a tee that boxing really is about what a fighter has done for you lately. People are talking about how this is so gutsy for Kessler to take as a comeback fight, and that he's never fought anyone like Kessler, etc. For christs sake, Kessler lost a COMPETITIVE UD to Joe Calzaghe, where he landed some wicked uppers and right hands throughout. Calzaghe is on a completely different plane than Miranda in general, not to mention he is naturally bigger. The last time Miranda was in against a remotely quality fighter he got KTFO. Let's get real here, please. Is a KO over David Banks supposed to vindicate him as a SMW threat? This is ridiculous imo. Kessler has WAY too much for Miranda, not only in terms of overall ability but stylistically. Miranda is going to eat straight punches down the middle something fierce. The question will be whether he can take them. I really don't think so at all. Kessler is bigger and stronger than Miranda and probably even Pavlik, with his accurate conventional style how the hell is Miranda about to make him go backwards? He won't, and if he tries he'll get timed on the way in with right hands.

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Good post mate. Makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I usually agree with your posts, but I think your dead wrong here, along with many others in this thread. I don't see those "gems" Miranda landed on Pavlik at all. Taylor landed a couple of gems on Pavlik, Miranda didn't come close to those kind of shots. The fact is, that whole fight Pavlik was the one backing Miranda up. The entire time. And Miranda does not pack his power when he is on the back foot. He connected with Pavliks chin plenty sure, but go back and really watch the way his feet were set at the time. They were almost all arm punches he was throwing. It was definetly an action packed fight, but it was also one sided in my view. Pavlik's chin and heart did not keep him in the fight, his own power, jab and technique dictated the fight. I think it's honestly pretty funny how much of a chance people are giving Miranda in this fight. It just proves to a tee that boxing really is about what a fighter has done for you lately. People are talking about how this is so gutsy for Kessler to take as a comeback fight, and that he's never fought anyone like Kessler, etc. For christs sake, Kessler lost a COMPETITIVE UD to Joe Calzaghe, where he landed some wicked uppers and right hands throughout. Calzaghe is on a completely different plane than Miranda in general, not to mention he is naturally bigger. The last time Miranda was in against a remotely quality fighter he got KTFO. Let's get real here, please. Is a KO over David Banks supposed to vindicate him as a SMW threat? This is ridiculous imo. Kessler has WAY too much for Miranda, not only in terms of overall ability but stylistically. Miranda is going to eat straight punches down the middle something fierce. The question will be whether he can take them. I really don't think so at all. Kessler is bigger and stronger than Miranda and probably even Pavlik, with his accurate conventional style how the hell is Miranda about to make him go backwards? He won't, and if he tries he'll get timed on the way in with right hands.

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Great post, I agree almost 100%.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I usually agree with your posts, but I think your dead wrong here, along with many others in this thread. I don't see those "gems" Miranda landed on Pavlik at all. Taylor landed a couple of gems on Pavlik, Miranda didn't come close to those kind of shots. The fact is, that whole fight Pavlik was the one backing Miranda up. The entire time. And Miranda does not pack his power when he is on the back foot. He connected with Pavliks chin plenty sure, but go back and really watch the way his feet were set at the time. They were almost all arm punches he was throwing. It was definetly an action packed fight, but it was also one sided in my view. Pavlik's chin and heart did not keep him in the fight, his own power, jab and technique dictated the fight. I think it's honestly pretty funny how much of a chance people are giving Miranda in this fight. It just proves to a tee that boxing really is about what a fighter has done for you lately. People are talking about how this is so gutsy for Kessler to take as a comeback fight, and that he's never fought anyone like Kessler, etc. For christs sake, Kessler lost a COMPETITIVE UD to Joe Calzaghe, where he landed some wicked uppers and right hands throughout. Calzaghe is on a completely different plane than Miranda in general, not to mention he is naturally bigger. The last time Miranda was in against a remotely quality fighter he got KTFO. Let's get real here, please. Is a KO over David Banks supposed to vindicate him as a SMW threat? This is ridiculous imo. Kessler has WAY too much for Miranda, not only in terms of overall ability but stylistically. Miranda is going to eat straight punches down the middle something fierce. The question will be whether he can take them. I really don't think so at all. Kessler is bigger and stronger than Miranda and probably even Pavlik, with his accurate conventional style how the hell is Miranda about to make him go backwards? He won't, and if he tries he'll get timed on the way in with right hands.

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You make good points... But a few things...
Miranda, naturally, is probably bigger and stronger than both Kessler and Calzaghe. He walk around over 200lbs. He was 192lbs in the ring with Banks. So size is not going to be against Miranda.
Yes, he did hit Pavlik with everything he had that night and it did not hurt him. If Miranda is accurate in saying he was far from 100% that night and had nothing on his punches, than this is probably why people think Pavlik has some granite chin. At 100%, fighting closer to his natural weight, maybe..... maybe Pantera DOES posess the power to really hurt someone like Pavlik or Kessler.

Anyway. I just rewatched Calzaghe/Kessler last night. Kessler is a bad ass top fighter. He is one tough nut to crack. Can Miranda crack him? It will not be easy, but if his weight loss troubles hold any water, I give him a chance. I for one will be behind him 100%.

Great fight and looking forward to it!

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Originally Posted by liquid

You can't prove that by me. Mayorga managed to beat a champion and defend his title. That's the only difference I see between the two.

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Miranda has never been dominated the way Mayorga was by Trinidad and De la Hoya.
The arguement that Mayorga decides to slug it disguising his boxing skill is also applicable to Miranda.
Should Miranda focus less on his power I belive he can box quite effectively. Although out hustled, the fight with Abraham showed moments of decent boxing form Miranda, as did the blow out of Banks.

Mayorga however struggeled with Fernado Vargas. A way past it Fernado Vargas. If Mayorga could box that competently, he wouldn't have chosen to slug it out with Vargas at a higher weight than he was comfortable as we've all seen Vargas out boxed by both De la Hoya and Mosely.

this is pretty good news, kessler i feel would win a decision or late stoppage, miranda always has the punchers chance though

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I usually agree with your posts, but I think your dead wrong here, along with many others in this thread. I don't see those "gems" Miranda landed on Pavlik at all. Taylor landed a couple of gems on Pavlik, Miranda didn't come close to those kind of shots. The fact is, that whole fight Pavlik was the one backing Miranda up. The entire time. And Miranda does not pack his power when he is on the back foot. He connected with Pavliks chin plenty sure, but go back and really watch the way his feet were set at the time. They were almost all arm punches he was throwing. It was definetly an action packed fight, but it was also one sided in my view. Pavlik's chin and heart did not keep him in the fight, his own power, jab and technique dictated the fight. I think it's honestly pretty funny how much of a chance people are giving Miranda in this fight. It just proves to a tee that boxing really is about what a fighter has done for you lately. People are talking about how this is so gutsy for Kessler to take as a comeback fight, and that he's never fought anyone like Kessler, etc. For christs sake, Kessler lost a COMPETITIVE UD to Joe Calzaghe, where he landed some wicked uppers and right hands throughout. Calzaghe is on a completely different plane than Miranda in general, not to mention he is naturally bigger. The last time Miranda was in against a remotely quality fighter he got KTFO. Let's get real here, please. Is a KO over David Banks supposed to vindicate him as a SMW threat? This is ridiculous imo. Kessler has WAY too much for Miranda, not only in terms of overall ability but stylistically. Miranda is going to eat straight punches down the middle something fierce. The question will be whether he can take them. I really don't think so at all. Kessler is bigger and stronger than Miranda and probably even Pavlik, with his accurate conventional style how the hell is Miranda about to make him go backwards? He won't, and if he tries he'll get timed on the way in with right hands.

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I think Miranda is a pretty sloppy puncher to be honest, even when he isn't on the back foot his punching technique is sloppy. I disagree that Miranda didn't land any *Gems* on Pavlik. As i remember it he landed some beauty's at the end of round 1 which stunned Pavlik for a second and bloodied his nose. I do agree that his punching power was made much more ineffective by Pavlik backing him up and because Miranda's feet wern't set at the time. But he still landed hard shots on Pavlik that would of knocked out most of the other Middleweights IMO, or at least stopped them from coming forward. I do agree Kessler will beat Miranda pretty handily i think Kessler is in a different class to Miranda, but i disagree that Kessler vs Calzaghe was competitive, i had it 8 rounds to 4 and many other people had it 9 rounds to 3, im not sure what you class as *Competitive* but after about round 4 i see it as a pretty dominant performance from Calzaghe personally. I do agree though Kessler's straight punches right down the pipe will do some serious damage on Miranda who loops his punches, like i said Kessler will give Miranda a boxing lesson IMO. Miranda is pretty 1 dimensional yes he has good power but i think his punching technique is quite sloppy and his defense is pretty sloppy as well. I see Kessler winning one sided decision although it wouldn't surprise me if Kessler stopped Miranda late on.

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think Miranda is a pretty sloppy puncher to be honest, even when he isn't on the back foot his punching technique is sloppy. I disagree that Miranda didn't land any *Gems* on Pavlik. As i remember it he landed some beauty's at the end of round 1 which stunned Pavlik for a second and bloodied his nose. I do agree that his punching power was made much more ineffective by Pavlik backing him up and because Miranda's feet wern't set at the time. But he still landed hard shots on Pavlik that would of knocked out most of the other Middleweights IMO, or at least stopped them from coming forward. I do agree Kessler will beat Miranda pretty handily i think Kessler is in a different class to Miranda, but i disagree that Kessler vs Calzaghe was competitive, i had it 8 rounds to 4 and many other people had it 9 rounds to 3, im not sure what you class as *Competitive* but after about round 4 i see it as a pretty dominant performance from Calzaghe personally. I do agree though Kessler's straight punches right down the pipe will do some serious damage on Miranda who loops his punches, like i said Kessler will give Miranda a boxing lesson IMO. Miranda is pretty 1 dimensional yes he has good power but i think his punching technique is quite sloppy and his defense is pretty sloppy as well. I see Kessler winning one sided decision although it wouldn't surprise me if Kessler stopped Miranda late on.

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I agree with most of your post, but I think Pavlik did so well by not only backing Miranda up, but also by being inside and smothering Miranda's power. Miranda did land some great shots, but I don't thing he got his full power as Kelly was breathing down his neck and he could not get full momentum in his shots. Pavlik fought him perfectly. Miranda has a much better chance at nailing someone who is boxing him and trying to keep him at range. In that respect, I think he will do better in this fight than against Pavlik, but still get out gunned in the end. He will test Kessler's toughness though IMO.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Miranda has never been dominated the way Mayorga was by Trinidad and De la Hoya.
The arguement that Mayorga decides to slug it disguising his boxing skill is also applicable to Miranda.
Should Miranda focus less on his power I belive he can box quite effectively. Although out hustled, the fight with Abraham showed moments of decent boxing form Miranda, as did the blow out of Banks.

Mayorga however struggeled with Fernado Vargas. A way past it Fernado Vargas. If Mayorga could box that competently, he wouldn't have chosen to slug it out with Vargas at a higher weight than he was comfortable as we've all seen Vargas out boxed by both De la Hoya and Mosely.

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And you honestly think Miranda wouldn't get dominated by ODLH or Trinidad as well ?? and Miranda was dominated by Pavlik. The fact is Mayorga has had a better career than Miranda has had and i don't think you can say Miranda is a better boxer, there both pretty sloppy offensively and defensively, the only difference is that at least Mayorga held a title and beat Vernon Forrest x2 who was fresh off beating Shane Mosley.

Miranda should be just about right for Kessler but it will be interesting to see how he approaches it. Miranda obviously can't fight for shit when he's getting backed up but I'm not sure if that will be Kessler's plan. Either way he should win, just the much better fighter.