Re: How did Tyson even survive...
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Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
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Originally Posted by
Master
Do not believe that Tyson was avoiding Foreman. He was fighting Rudduck who at that time was far more dangerous than old George.
But in hindsight Rudduck was half the fighter that Old Foreman was....all Rudduck was, was a punch...one at a time....there was no strategy, there was no chin, there was no stamina.
George Foreman was ALWAYS tough....if he had the mental toughness of Ali or Louis he would have been the greatest of all time
If you could time warp the mental toughness and ring intelligence of old George into the body of young George, you would probably have the greatest of all time, too.
I dunno about that Foreman was great but his punch technique wasn't that good, and his defense was extremely leaky as Jimmy Young exposed.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aburwell89
Let alone dominate the heavyweight division? I mean, if you look at him size wise on paper, he should've gotten murdered. 5'11", 71" reach isn't exactly optimal heavyweight measurables, and while it's a known fact that he was quick and had good punching power, you'd think he would've just been peppered with jabs and never got inside of anyone.
Does anyone have a solid explaination for this? Because it really leaves me scratching my head.
Joe Frazier was similar in size to Tyson. Short fighters with short arms can become champions, they just normally don't stay on top past the age of 30 because they have to absorb punishment to get inside taller opponents.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
As said many times by others in this thread;
1 - Power. Had way more power in both hands than anyone else in the 80s
2 - Speed. Handspeed was also greater than any other fighter in his era
3 - Elusiveness - Cus and Tyson was a match made in heaven, the peak-a-boo style made him almost unhittable from power shots.
4 - (and most important) Intimidation - His reputation preceeded him, and 90% of his opponents lost the fight before the opening bell even sounded.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Foreman was honest enough to say that he was handpicking the opponents. He said he would never fight Lewis. At that time Rudduck would have been too dangerous for George.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Foreman was honest enough to say that he was handpicking the opponents. He said he would never fight Lewis. At that time Rudduck would have been too dangerous for George.
He didn't want to fight Larry Holmes either ;)
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
If you say so, I'll take your word for it. I mean everyone has always been interested with that matchup, same for a Shavers matchup, but it just never came about.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
If you say so, I'll take your word for it. I mean everyone has always been interested with that matchup, same for a Shavers matchup, but it just never came about.
It is very interesting match up Holmes could of out pointed the Foreman that fought Young, and Foreman could of KO'ed the Holmes that fought Weaver, both at there best were one of the greatest Heavyweights of all time, And i think they both could beat each other on any given night. I don't know who would of won the battle of the 40 year olds, Holmes still had enough movement to beat Foreman, but Foreman also improved his boxing brain and also had one of the best chins in Heavyweight history, tough one to call really.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
But this just goes back to the cliche but true maxim that styles make fights. Lewis against Foreman would have been the classic example to a boxer-puncher against a slugger and that's a sluggers worst nightmare. Same thing, but to a lesser degree with an older Holmes. And you make my point by citing McCall, who was really good matchup for Holmes.
Tyson would have won rounds against George, but he would have gotten caught eventually. Once Foreman caught you, goodnight (other than the unreal heart and chin of Holyfield. You can say what you want about punch technique, but none other than Joe Frazier calls Foreman the hardest puncher he ever fought.
The old Foreman would not have been intimidated. He would not have been out thought. His jab was actually better in his comeback that in his early days, and he was probably better defensively. And to comment on Jimmy Young "exposing" Foreman. Again. Styles, matchups, and a psychologically damaged Foreman. I stand by my original point. Old Foreman was a huge threat to Tyson.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
I remember all of that hoopla,Almost a circus atomshere with the Holmes/Foreman talk.Holmes was calling him out every chance he got $$$$.They were both different Fighters in come backs with Foreman finding great mental balance and a jab = to a right hand Lol.Oddly Alex Stewart busted him up jabbing and nice power shots,Stubby Bigfoot Martin gave him problems but The way he would use his big paws to reach out and position guys,move them around was something.But somewhat a plodder and almost TOO relaxed at times.Holmes retained a zip jab,Acurate and would look to throw a fast right cross.He shuffled around alot...would pose and feet got crossed at times.More of a showman,talking to the cameras and frustrating to watch.Agree a bit on McCall fight....somewhat close,I had McCall by a few.But I do think he got a gift Against Quinn Navarre,Quinn actually outjabbed Holmes and hurt him at times.Mercer stunned him bad with a jab,& Jesse fergussan Had him rocked badly a couple of times if my memorie is sound :-XHey....I would have watched Foreman Vs. Holmes in a comeback bout but I lean towards Foreman.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
I remember all of that hoopla,Almost a circus atomshere with the Holmes/Foreman talk.Holmes was calling him out every chance he got $$$$.They were both different Fighters in come backs with Foreman finding great mental balance and a jab = to a right hand Lol.Oddly Alex Stewart busted him up jabbing and nice power shots,Stubby Bigfoot Martin gave him problems but The way he would use his big paws to reach out and position guys,move them around was something.But somewhat a plodder and almost TOO relaxed at times.Holmes retained a zip jab,Acurate and would look to throw a fast right cross.He shuffled around alot...would pose and feet got crossed at times.More of a showman,talking to the cameras and frustrating to watch.Agree a bit on McCall fight....somewhat close,I had McCall by a few.But I do think he got a gift Against Quinn Navarre,Quinn actually outjabbed Holmes and hurt him at times.Mercer stunned him bad with a jab,& Jesse fergussan Had him rocked badly a couple of times if my memorie is sound :-XHey....I would have watched Foreman Vs. Holmes in a comeback bout but I lean towards Foreman.
Holmes would have been a very tough match for George. He had the reach and jab to give him fits. Just like I think George would be a bad matchup for Tyson, Holmes would be a bad matchup for George. Foreman was probably right to avoid that fight because loosing to an old Larry Holmes would have looked bad.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
I think at that point in time Larry Holmes fighting Foreman wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean people would have watched but it would be like watching Riddick Bowe fight someone now. In the late 80's early 90's Larry wasn't a force to be reckoned with.
Of course Foreman didn't want to fight Lennox, can you blame him??? Lennox was bigger, stronger, faster, and he could move better. Foreman would always have a puncher's chance vs anyone but it would have been way too risky to fight Lewis at that point in his career.
For Tyson, he had to have the intimidation factor working for him...if anyone fought back things got a little shakey. Tyson took big shots from Bruno and Rudduck. He came back to win because those guys were not keeping the pressure on or fighting smart, those guys always ended up fighting Tyson's fight....if we're talking Tyson-Foreman then George is one of the few I would trust to stand and trade with Tyson and come out on top.
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
But this just goes back to the cliche but true maxim that styles make fights. Lewis against Foreman would have been the classic example to a boxer-puncher against a slugger and that's a sluggers worst nightmare. Same thing, but to a lesser degree with an older Holmes. And you make my point by citing McCall, who was really good matchup for Holmes.
Tyson would have won rounds against George, but he would have gotten caught eventually. Once Foreman caught you, goodnight (other than the unreal heart and chin of Holyfield. You can say what you want about punch technique, but none other than Joe Frazier calls Foreman the hardest puncher he ever fought.
The old Foreman would not have been intimidated. He would not have been out thought. His jab was actually better in his comeback that in his early days, and he was probably better defensively. And to comment on Jimmy Young "exposing" Foreman. Again. Styles, matchups, and a psychologically damaged Foreman. I stand by my original point. Old Foreman was a huge threat to Tyson.
Oh no doubt i never said it wouldn't be a bad style match up for Tyson, im actually one of the people that thinks Foreman would of beat prime Tyson. The reason i bring up the punch technique is because its scary to think how much power Foreman would of had if he had the speed along with the punch technique.
I don't think Foreman was that good against boxers with movement, i mean did you see how Morrison totally out boxed Big George just by using simple movement ?? and also Jimmy Young was the same. I think against pure boxers Foreman would struggle badly, fighters like Lewis, Holmes.
Re: How did Tyson even survive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Thats actually where your wrong Lyle Holmes was a force in the early 90's, Holmes beat Ray Mercer, almost beat prime Holyfield i had it 7-5 for Holyfield. And he should of beat Oliver McCall and that would of made him 2nd oldest Heavyweight champion in history. And the public did want to see Holmes vs Foreman it was a well talked about fight, but Foreman didn't want the fight. Im not saying Foreman ducked Holmes but he didn't want the fight for whatever reason.
But this just goes back to the cliche but true maxim that styles make fights. Lewis against Foreman would have been the classic example to a boxer-puncher against a slugger and that's a sluggers worst nightmare. Same thing, but to a lesser degree with an older Holmes. And you make my point by citing McCall, who was really good matchup for Holmes.
Tyson would have won rounds against George, but he would have gotten caught eventually. Once Foreman caught you, goodnight (other than the unreal heart and chin of Holyfield. You can say what you want about punch technique, but none other than Joe Frazier calls Foreman the hardest puncher he ever fought.
The old Foreman would not have been intimidated. He would not have been out thought. His jab was actually better in his comeback that in his early days, and he was probably better defensively. And to comment on Jimmy Young "exposing" Foreman. Again. Styles, matchups, and a psychologically damaged Foreman. I stand by my original point. Old Foreman was a huge threat to Tyson.
Oh no doubt i never said it wouldn't be a bad style match up for Tyson, im actually one of the people that thinks Foreman would of beat prime Tyson. The reason i bring up the punch technique is because its scary to think how much power Foreman would of had if he had the speed along with the punch technique.
I don't think Foreman was that good against boxers with movement, i mean did you see how Morrison totally out boxed Big George just by using simple movement ?? and also Jimmy Young was the same. I think against pure boxers Foreman would struggle badly, fighters like Lewis, Holmes.
I agree 100%.
