Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!
Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!
Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.
I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
People are going to try pulling me to bits over this but I think before moving back down from Heavyweight Roy Jones ticked all these boxes including chin. I think that the knockouts he suffered were due to him draining his body so badly he was going into these fights at only around 60% of his true potential and he was extremely weak. He fought some very good fighters earlier in his career such as Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Mike McCallum and these caught him with better shots than the ones that Tarver and Johnson caught him with and they didnt even rock him. I think the only other thing on the list that people may argue is the heart of Jones because he was never in any tear up wars where he had to come from behind but that wasn't his fault he was just too good for his own good!
Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.
I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.
I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.
I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.
I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.
I know what your saying but I think that it was because he caught him clean and he had a slight delayed reaction and then lost his footing more because of the punch than any wet spot. Jones' balance in them days was imense I dont think a wet spot would have taken him off his feet like that. Also I can see what your saying about the Johnson punch he did hit his head hard on the canvas but even still there is no way that would have knocked jones out earlier in his career or now he has readjusted his body to a lightheavy again.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Im big fan of Roy Jones Jr but Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, never landed any big shots on Jones's chin. Toney was kept on the outside all night and never landed a telling blow, Hopkins landed few decent right hands here and there but not many. Hill landed a good shot on Jones when ?? McCallum mostly landed to the body i don't remember him landing any good shots on Jones's chin. Im not saying Jones didn't have a better chin before draining himself, but IMO even though all those fighters you mentioned are great fighters none of them ever landed a good shot on Jones, but i think that just shows how good Jones was in his prime that even great fighter's coundn't touch him.
I'm not saying that they gave him serious knockout blows but they all caught him as cleanly if not cleaner than the shots that finished him against Tarver and Johnson. Also the knockdown against Lou del Valle he suffered was a shot that was much cleaner than them.
I thought the Tarver punch was a great punch personally, probably the best clean shot RJJ took in his entire career, as for Glen Johnson i didn't think he hit Jones that hard personally, but watch how hard Jones's head hits the canvas that alone would have seriously hurt him no joke. I thought Jones slipped on a wetspot against Lou Del Valle, Del Valle just pushed a punch at Jones and it caught him off balance and because Jones was on a wetspot at the time didn't help either.
I have to reply, Jones was a great fighter he had all the skills but for vast parts of his career he did not fight the best. Not knocking him Calzaghe and Hopkins did the same, but the punches that starched him did not look solid at all that left hook from tarver would have bounced off say Hopkins or Calzaghe.
Jones is a better fighter than both of those guys and will be rememberd so but i do question his career choices.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Hopkins,Holyfield,R. Lopez,Robinson, complete Packages!
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
147 Donald Curry.
Curry was an amazing counter puncher i think he could have been ATG if he had a better chin, i just watched how he was schooling McCallum a few days ago until McCallum's fatal left hook. But what about Curry's left hook on McCrory that floored him ?? that was the quickest left hook i've ever seen, even RJJ himself would of been proud of that left hook.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
147 Donald Curry.
Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)
Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
147 Donald Curry.
Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)
Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG
He was an outstanding Amateur as well i think he had a record of 400-4 or something crazy like that.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bikersk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
I've often said 2 of the most complete fighters that my eyes have ever seen are:
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
I would also include:
SRR
PBF
Duran
I was waiting for this one from you cutmemick as i was reading through the thread. Hard to argue against.
bikersk not sure how much Alexis & Ricardo you have seen but as I've said those 2 for ME are the epitimy what a well rounded boxer should be. Those 2 new the sport inside out those were always 1 step ahead of you rarely wasted any punches and everytime a right hand was thrown it was with precise location and amazing power behind it. Time and time again they showed great ring generalship using the entire ring, jabs, hooks, body shots, straight rights I mean they had it all.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
I would have to have SRl and Evandar Holyfield up there
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Wille Pep is mentioned, He should be studied closer by modern fighters. Some of the stuff he got away with utilizing both hands square shouldered while passing through in front of people or going around their arm via great footwork to attack two arms against only one due to arm execution on exact positioning should be a study point.
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
147 Donald Curry.
Till Ragamuffin man smoked his boots ;)
Joking aside Curry was p4p no 1 even ahead of Hagler and should've gone down as an ATG
Curry poor handlers are more to blame. Any decent welterweight would of beaten Curry that night. He was a walking dead man. Lloyd just happen to be there at the right time
Re: Most complete fighter who gets all the ticks?
Roberto Duran...he was a great great boxer...he did have one situation where he did quit but other than that he had great heart and all the other stuff too
Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis and Hank Armstrong deserve some mentions too
