tyson against the heavyweight legends

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by ross

Ok



Frazier was so smart he couldnt get outta the way of Foremans wide slow punches:rolleyes: but Ali who sat on the ropes and let Foreman hit him could;D

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Watch his whole career,Frazier was spent after the first Ali fight

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Ice already explained the matchup issue well, but ross doesn't understand the matchup concept. Prime Frazier was 67-71. Even prime for prime, Foreman wins for the reasons outlined by ICB, but you think Frazier just barreled forward, watch him in the first Jimmy Ellis fight or the Buster Mathis fight, or even Ali I. Behind the swarming style, there was well developed technique and solid ring strategy.

Whats sad is while Im rarely a "fan" of any boxer,but I knew watching Tyson coming up is he was going to be champ,it was inevitable. I looked at the division at the time,and watched him,and bluntly said,"He's going to be champ".
I dont dislike Tyson as a fighter,but he was painfully one dimensional, anybody who could take his power early had him late.
Of course I also called Foremans comeback,the fight against Guido Trane was frightening in its brutality, Ive almost never seen a guy so thoroughly abused,it wasnt where he's bleeding from,it was where isnt he bleeding from

When did Mike avoid Foreman?

Im sure Mike would have gladly taken another easy payday to batter an old has been, saying that, he did politely decline an offer from Frazier;D

Look at Foremans prime and tell me how many title successfull defences he made;D and for that matter Liston, it is incredible that these fighters get alot more credit for mediocre reigns whereas Mike wiped a division clean

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Originally Posted by ross

When did Mike avoid Foreman?

Im sure Mike would have gladly taken another easy payday to batter an old has been, saying that, he did politely decline an offer from Frazier;D

Look at Foremans prime and tell me how many title successfull defences he made;D and for that matter Liston, it is incredible that these fighters get alot more credit for mediocre reigns whereas Mike wiped a division clean

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Um,mmmmmmmmmmm Liston fought Ali not Pinklon Thomas

How many defences did he manage before that, he couldnt even catch Ali, Cooper and Jones decked him but Liston couldnt touch him.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ross

When did Mike avoid Foreman?

Im sure Mike would have gladly taken another easy payday to batter an old has been, saying that, he did politely decline an offer from Frazier;D

Look at Foremans prime and tell me how many title successfull defences he made;D and for that matter Liston, it is incredible that these fighters get alot more credit for mediocre reigns whereas Mike wiped a division clean

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George Foreman was in a much stronger era and id pick Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, over any of Mike Tyson's challengers. And actually its well known Mike Tyson avoided George Foreman, and Tyson also avoided David Tua, and Lennox Lewis in 1996.

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Originally Posted by ross

How many defences did he manage before that, he couldnt even catch Ali, Cooper and Jones decked him but Liston couldnt touch him.:rolleyes:

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One against Patterson
Who was better then anybody Tyson fought

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Originally Posted by ross

How many defences did he manage before that, he couldnt even catch Ali, Cooper and Jones decked him but Liston couldnt touch him.:rolleyes:

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Doug Jones never decked Muhammad Ali watch the fight.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Tyson also avoided Lennox Lewis in 1996.

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No Lennox galdly took a measly 4 million rather than go to court to force the issue (as he did later on to stop Mike having a warm up fight with Mercer a few months before their fight and to stop Rahman making a defence before their rematch) and take the bigger pay day and fame for the actual fight.

Lewis wasnt sure of himself at that point and more importantly he saw Mike still had a pulse and who was Tua back then?

Someone who a few years earlier had been sparked by Felix Savon;D

Ps, sorry it was Banks who decked Ali, not Jones, it was Jones he got a gift decision against.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by ICB

Tyson also avoided Lennox Lewis in 1996.

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No Lennox galdly took a measly 4 million rather than go to court to force the issue (as he did later on to stop Mike having a warm up fight with Mercer a few months before their fight and to stop Rahman making a defence before their rematch) and take the bigger pay day and fame for the actual fight.

Lewis wasnt sure of himself at that point and more importantly he saw Mike still had a pulse and who was Tua back then?

Someone who a few years earlier had been sparked by Felix Savon;D

Ps, sorry it was Banks who decked Ali, not Jones, it was Jones he got a gift decision against.

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Ali didnt get a gift,he started slow,but most of what Jones landed wasnt clean or legal,Jones best shots were to the back of the head

Tyson in his prime would beat fighters like Dempsey, Louis, Marciano and Fraiser as well as Foreman (toss up). However he was not greater champion than Louis who made 25 defences, Tyson burnt out after 4 years. He would struggle against the great boxers like Ali, Holmes and Lennox but that does not mean he could not beat them.

The thing with Mike Tyson is when you look at all his attributes at his best power, speed, elusiveness, sharpness, resiliance, stamina and skill, you could not make any fighter in history a dead cert to beat him, he was capable of doing what he did to Spinks and Holmes to anyone.

Purists dont like him because of what he let himself become but while he was the golden boy, the spokesman for the New York police department and the FBI, advertising Pepsi and his own nintendo games (no other fighter has had his appeal) people were saying that Mike would beat Ali.

Its only after King led him astray and basicly ruined him as a fighter that the media started to turn on him and every Tom Dick and Harry threw law suits at him that he became vilified, all his excellent work was quickly forgotten, that is until people moan about the state of the heavys and ask where the next Tyson is coming from to clean up the division and dominate;)

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

mike tyson would beat all except ali. marciano was to slow to keep up with tyson same goes for louis, frazier would get kod in the first round foreman wouldnt land anything cleanly so thats it mike would beat all except ali.

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That would make Ali and Tyson the top two of all time.
There is a bridge in Alaska for sale!!!

Any top champion had the stuff to defeat Ali or Tyson.

As Marciano was undefeared, difficult to say Tyson would win.
Not sure if Tyson could take the punches, but Marciano proved
he could take the heavy shots.

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Originally Posted by ross

The thing with Mike Tyson is when you look at all his attributes at his best power, speed, elusiveness, sharpness, resiliance, stamina and skill, you could not make any fighter in history a dead cert to beat him, he was capable of doing what he did to Spinks and Holmes to anyone.

Purists dont like him because of what he let himself become but while he was the golden boy, the spokesman for the New York police department and the FBI, advertising Pepsi and his own nintendo games (no other fighter has had his appeal) people were saying that Mike would beat Ali.

Its only after King led him astray and basicly ruined him as a fighter that the media started to turn on him and every Tom Dick and Harry threw law suits at him that he became vilified, all his excellent work was quickly forgotten, that is until people moan about the state of the heavys and ask where the next Tyson is coming from to clean up the division and dominate;)

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Mike Tyson didn't have the best power Foreman or Shavers did, i would say Patterson was also faster than Tyson handspeed wise. Tyson had the best resilience are you frigging kidding me ? Aren't you forgetting Ali, McCall, Tua, and he didn't have the best stamina either.......

Mike Tyson was a grown ass man the choices he made in his life were his own fault, no one else's so stop making out he was some stupid young kid who was led astray, he was always a nasty piece of work even when he was a kid.............

And the reason why people aren't calling him the greatest like you think he is because he wasn't. He was exposed for having weak mentality and a questionale heart and simply put he wern't as good as people thought, even in his fights with Tony Tucker, James Tillis, proved this and the reason why people turned on him because he was piece of shit as a human being, for what he done inside and outside the ring. Like i said it was his own fault no one elses.

Ah, look what I wrote again, I didnt say he had the most power ever or was the fastest ever but he had everything, he could knock you out with one shot from either hand, he could take big shots from big punchers, he could befuddle skilled boxers with his movement, if you were to put all the best attributes of a fighter together you would get Mike, or to put another way, if you had a list of the best attributes for a fighter to have, im sure Mike woould tick off the most.

Yeah Mike makes his own choices but if King never existed we may have seen Mike stop Holyfields heavy career in its tracks and Lewis may just have been another fighter that Tyson beat, Ifs and buts and all that but Mike was something special for those years he made the heavy division enjoyable.

People loved watching him because he was brutal and skilled, when people watched Holyfield it was to watch him struggle against the bigger men and with Lewis it was with baited breath to see if the next big shot that got through would spark him.