Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Despite being a fan of his, I was going to call him out as well for cherry picking from 140 and beyond (in some fights). Problem is, when you're p4p number 1 you can cherry pick and still make your resume look good. E.G Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya.
Jermaine Taylor was not a cherry picker, although he spoke like one after his fights. - 'I'm going where the money's at'
Ricky Hatton was up until his split with Frank Warren.
Joe Calzaghe all the way up until his split with Frank Warren AND until the present day.
Eubank was - Despite me being an ignorant child when he was boxing and believing that he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Didn't know about Jones, Toney etc.
Sure Mayweather has had some easy fights, but I would not have considered DLH at 154, and Ricky Hatton, and Zab Judah, and probably not Gatti either for that matter, as cherry picking.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Despite being a fan of his, I was going to call him out as well for cherry picking from 140 and beyond (in some fights). Problem is, when you're p4p number 1 you can cherry pick and still make your resume look good. E.G Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya.
Jermaine Taylor was not a cherry picker, although he spoke like one after his fights. - 'I'm going where the money's at'
Ricky Hatton was up until his split with Frank Warren.
Joe Calzaghe all the way up until his split with Frank Warren AND until the present day.
Eubank was - Despite me being an ignorant child when he was boxing and believing that he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Didn't know about Jones, Toney etc.
Sure Mayweather has had some easy fights, but I would not have considered DLH at 154, and Ricky Hatton, and Zab Judah, and probably not Gatti either for that matter, as cherry picking.
Well apart from Dela Hoya which i give him full credit, Judah??? He just got beat by Baldomir who Floyd then fights and who is the worst champion at 147, he fights Hatton at 147 Hatton is not a 147 fighter he fights at 140.
He fights Gatti but doesnt fight Kosta,Hatton or Cotto at 140.
At 147 he fights Baldomir and doesnt fight fighters like Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Despite being a fan of his, I was going to call him out as well for cherry picking from 140 and beyond (in some fights). Problem is, when you're p4p number 1 you can cherry pick and still make your resume look good. E.G Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya.
Jermaine Taylor was not a cherry picker, although he spoke like one after his fights. - 'I'm going where the money's at'
Ricky Hatton was up until his split with Frank Warren.
Joe Calzaghe all the way up until his split with Frank Warren AND until the present day.
Eubank was - Despite me being an ignorant child when he was boxing and believing that he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Didn't know about Jones, Toney etc.
Sure Mayweather has had some easy fights, but I would not have considered DLH at 154, and Ricky Hatton, and Zab Judah, and probably not Gatti either for that matter, as cherry picking.
Well apart from Dela Hoya which i give him full credit, Judah??? He just got beat by Baldomir who Floyd then fights and who is the worst champion at 147, he fights Hatton at 147 Hatton is not a 147 fighter he fights at 140.
He fights Gatti but doesnt fight Kosta,Hatton or Cotto at 140.
At 147 he fights Baldomir and doesnt fight fighters like Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams.
fair enough, there is some cherry picling involved but not as much as some would say. Judah fought Cooto for example, but I don't think anyone would say Cotto cherry picked Judah.
As for Gatti, well a lot of people thought it might be a good fight, until Floyd totally schooled him. So maybe it became cherry picking after they fought.
The Hatton argument I never bought into. Mayweather after all did start at two weight divisions below Hatton, but Hatton fans seem to discount this fact. But I've had this argument before, no point in rehashing that one. Lets not forget it was Hatton that went after Floyd. If you are going to call Hatton a cherry then he had no business moving up to Welterweight in the first place.
BUt yeah OK there are guys he could have/should have fought. I just wanted to point out that some of the bouts that Floyd is criticized for were unjust criticism.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Sven Ottke
Now i have seen Jermaine Taylor and Ricky Hatton as cherry pickers?? are you for fucking real???
Taylor has fought Hopkins twice Winky Wright and Kelly Pavlik twice and the second time after getting ktfo!!!
Hatton?? Yes his early carrer was a bit patchy but blame good old Franky boy. Since he became champ by "cherry picking" p4p number 3 Kosta and taking a big pay cut he has fought only the best, Mayweather p4p the best and probably best of the past 20 years in the usa. Mallinaggi and Castillo both number 1 contenders to his 140 crown and now the p4p number 1, yes sure looks like Hatton has decided to stay home and fight bums for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:
It depends how you define cherry picker. Guys like Ottke/Erdei and Joe pre Lacy could have had better names on their resumes, and would fit the criteria of your last sentence, however they didn't get any credit for doing that and rightly so.
Cherry picking is when a fighter has influence on who they fight due to their high standing with fans/writers/broadcasters yet choose a path of lesser resistance. PBF after going to 140 fits that bill, and perhaps ODLH of the last 5 years. However ODLH in his prime is also a good example of someon who isn't a cherry picker, it's taking the tough fights (against somewhat unknown quantities to the mainstream) such as quartey when you really didn't have to.
IMO Hatton can be accused of some cherry picking, Castillo was never no.1 for the undisputed 140 crown, and Paulie's claim to fame is taking a beating from a weight drained Cotto. Yet these are the two fights that 'earned' him shots at the so called p4p champs. Cherry picking is avoiding the high risk/low reward fights, Ricky didn't have much to lose against Floyd and everything to gain (which also applies to Pac now) since it can be claimed he only lost to the very best.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Sven Ottke
Now i have seen Jermaine Taylor and Ricky Hatton as cherry pickers?? are you for fucking real???
Taylor has fought Hopkins twice Winky Wright and Kelly Pavlik twice and the second time after getting ktfo!!!
Hatton?? Yes his early carrer was a bit patchy but blame good old Franky boy. Since he became champ by "cherry picking" p4p number 3 Kosta and taking a big pay cut he has fought only the best, Mayweather p4p the best and probably best of the past 20 years in the usa. Mallinaggi and Castillo both number 1 contenders to his 140 crown and now the p4p number 1, yes sure looks like Hatton has decided to stay home and fight bums for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:
It depends how you define cherry picker. Guys like Ottke/Erdei and Joe pre Lacy could have had better names on their resumes, and would fit the criteria of your last sentence, however they didn't get any credit for doing that and rightly so.
Cherry picking is when a fighter has influence on who they fight due to their high standing with fans/writers/broadcasters yet choose a path of lesser resistance. PBF after going to 140 fits that bill, and perhaps ODLH of the last 5 years. However ODLH in his prime is also a good example of someon who isn't a cherry picker, it's taking the tough fights (against somewhat unknown quantities to the mainstream) such as quartey when you really didn't have to.
IMO Hatton can be accused of some cherry picking, Castillo was never no.1 for the undisputed 140 crown, and Paulie's claim to fame is taking a beating from a weight drained Cotto. Yet these are the two fights that 'earned' him shots at the so called p4p champs. Cherry picking is avoiding the high risk/low reward fights, Ricky didn't have much to lose against Floyd and everything to gain (which also applies to Pac now) since it can be claimed he only lost to the very best.
That's a very acceptable definition to me. Good stuff.:appl:
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Sven Ottke
Now i have seen Jermaine Taylor and Ricky Hatton as cherry pickers?? are you for fucking real???
Taylor has fought Hopkins twice Winky Wright and Kelly Pavlik twice and the second time after getting ktfo!!!
Hatton?? Yes his early carrer was a bit patchy but blame good old Franky boy. Since he became champ by "cherry picking" p4p number 3 Kosta and taking a big pay cut he has fought only the best, Mayweather p4p the best and probably best of the past 20 years in the usa. Mallinaggi and Castillo both number 1 contenders to his 140 crown and now the p4p number 1, yes sure looks like Hatton has decided to stay home and fight bums for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:
It depends how you define cherry picker. Guys like Ottke/Erdei and Joe pre Lacy could have had better names on their resumes, and would fit the criteria of your last sentence, however they didn't get any credit for doing that and rightly so.
Cherry picking is when a fighter has influence on who they fight due to their high standing with fans/writers/broadcasters yet choose a path of lesser resistance. PBF after going to 140 fits that bill, and perhaps ODLH of the last 5 years. However ODLH in his prime is also a good example of someon who isn't a cherry picker, it's taking the tough fights (against somewhat unknown quantities to the mainstream) such as quartey when you really didn't have to.
IMO Hatton can be accused of some cherry picking, Castillo was never no.1 for the undisputed 140 crown, and Paulie's claim to fame is taking a beating from a weight drained Cotto. Yet these are the two fights that 'earned' him shots at the so called p4p champs. Cherry picking is avoiding the high risk/low reward fights, Ricky didn't have much to lose against Floyd and everything to gain (which also applies to Pac now) since it can be claimed he only lost to the very best.
So a fighter can have Tszyu, Mayweather and Pac on his resume and still be accused of cherry picking? Just because he didn't have much to lose? The exact opposite of that would be to fight fighters who are well beneath your level (giving you everything to lose) - so would this exact opposite make you the opposite of a cherry picker? It makes no sense.
Since he beat Tszyu which high risk low reward fight would you have liked to have seen him be in? Junior Witter? That's the only one i can think of.
There isn't anybody out there much different to Malignaggi, Urango, Castillo, Maussa, Lazcano. You can throw other names at me like Torres, Bradley, etc.. but we all know they are all of a very similar standard.
So what would you're reaction be if he fought them guys and kept away from Mayweather and Pac? He's ducking the best?
Collazo's also a strange fight to take if you are cherry picking...especially at 147.
I'm struggling to see who he could have fought without been accused of ducking or cherry picking. Those guys i've metioned are the very best at 140 - sad but true. Most would agree that he would wipe the floor with the ones he hasn't already fought. So that only leaves Pac really....which by your calculation makes him a cherry picker because he has nothing to lose by fighting the p4p number 1. I'm astonished.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Hatton - Collazo: yeah I'd call that a path of low resistance in the Welterweight division. And if Mayweather is such a huge cherry picker at welterweight, then fighting Mayweather doesn't exactly make you a superstar of courage now does it?
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Hatton - Collazo: yeah I'd call that a path of low resistance in the Welterweight division. And if Mayweather is such a huge cherry picker at welterweight, then fighting Mayweather doesn't exactly make you a superstar of courage now does it?
Why would he want a path of low resistance in the welterweight division when he doesn't have long term ambition of fighting there? He had nobody to fight so rather than cancel the date he chose to fight a very good fighter in his back yard at his weight. Not textbook cherry-picking is it? I didn't call Mayweather a cherry picker so i don't know about all this superstar of courage talk - altho i would claim that any fighter shows a great deal nof courage just climbing through the ropes.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bomp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Floyd Mayweather after moving to 140 biggest cherry picker going.
Sven Ottke
Now i have seen Jermaine Taylor and Ricky Hatton as cherry pickers?? are you for fucking real???
Taylor has fought Hopkins twice Winky Wright and Kelly Pavlik twice and the second time after getting ktfo!!!
Hatton?? Yes his early carrer was a bit patchy but blame good old Franky boy. Since he became champ by "cherry picking" p4p number 3 Kosta and taking a big pay cut he has fought only the best, Mayweather p4p the best and probably best of the past 20 years in the usa. Mallinaggi and Castillo both number 1 contenders to his 140 crown and now the p4p number 1, yes sure looks like Hatton has decided to stay home and fight bums for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:
It depends how you define cherry picker. Guys like Ottke/Erdei and Joe pre Lacy could have had better names on their resumes, and would fit the criteria of your last sentence, however they didn't get any credit for doing that and rightly so.
Cherry picking is when a fighter has influence on who they fight due to their high standing with fans/writers/broadcasters yet choose a path of lesser resistance. PBF after going to 140 fits that bill, and perhaps ODLH of the last 5 years. However ODLH in his prime is also a good example of someon who isn't a cherry picker, it's taking the tough fights (against somewhat unknown quantities to the mainstream) such as quartey when you really didn't have to.
IMO Hatton can be accused of some cherry picking, Castillo was never no.1 for the undisputed 140 crown, and Paulie's claim to fame is taking a beating from a weight drained Cotto. Yet these are the two fights that 'earned' him shots at the so called p4p champs. Cherry picking is avoiding the high risk/low reward fights, Ricky didn't have much to lose against Floyd and everything to gain (which also applies to Pac now) since it can be claimed he only lost to the very best.
I dont think you can call Castillo a cherry pick? I mean the guy was ranked number 1 by the ring at the time of the fight the same ranking as Paulie was when he fought Hatton, i mean whoelse could Hatton have fought at the time of the Castillo fight? Only one i can think of is Witter and i think its fair to say HBO would rather see a Castillo( been on HBO and Showtime numerous occasions) than Witter.
The only fighter i can think of Hatton should of fought is Cotto at 140, you cant really call Hatton a cherry picker since he arrived at world championship level imo.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Hatton - Collazo: yeah I'd call that a path of low resistance in the Welterweight division. And if Mayweather is such a huge cherry picker at welterweight, then fighting Mayweather doesn't exactly make you a superstar of courage now does it?
Why would he want a path of low resistance in the welterweight division when he doesn't have long term ambition of fighting there? He had nobody to fight so rather than cancel the date he chose to fight a very good fighter in his back yard at his weight. Not textbook cherry-picking is it? I didn't call Mayweather a cherry picker so i don't know about all this superstar of courage talk - altho i would claim that any fighter shows a great deal nof courage just climbing through the ropes.
Ok fine, forget the Mayweather stuff, it wasn't so much directed at you. You do have a point about Collazo. But if Hatton has no intention of sticking around at welterweight (because why? not his best division? he's not that competitive there?) then I would question why he thinks he has any business stepping in to the ring against Mayweather. I don't have knowledge of what Hatton was thinking of, but he beats Mayweather, the best welterweight out there, I really can't see him moving back down to JWW, can you?
edit: May take is that Hatton needed a belt to make his fight against Mayweather a bigger fight. No mayweather, Hatton nevr moves up to welterweigt in the first place. Who else was champ at welterweight? Cotto and Margarito? You tell me if Collazo was a path of high resistance to get to Mayweather. Collazo was far from the toughest ranked welterweight at the time.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
I think Cherry Picking also might involve the period of time between fights. Even if you fight top notch guys, if you do it every 18 months or so, that's a form of cherry picking because you are calling the shots as to how rested and ready you are for those fights. De La Hoya did that until his lack of skills ran out and it really didn't matter anymore.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Oscar a cherry picker? Besides Forbes, Mayorga and Pacquaio, who has he cherry picked?
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Sure Mayweather has had some easy fights, but I would not have considered DLH at 154, and Ricky Hatton, and Zab Judah, and probably not Gatti either for that matter, as cherry picking.
Well apart from Dela Hoya which i give him full credit, Judah??? He just got beat by Baldomir who Floyd then fights and who is the worst champion at 147, he fights Hatton at 147 Hatton is not a 147 fighter he fights at 140.
He fights Gatti but doesnt fight Kosta,Hatton or Cotto at 140.
At 147 he fights Baldomir and doesnt fight fighters like Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams.
The Hatton argument I never bought into. Mayweather after all did start at two weight divisions below Hatton, but Hatton fans seem to discount this fact. But I've had this argument before, no point in rehashing that one. Lets not forget it was Hatton that went after Floyd. If you are going to call Hatton a cherry then he had no business moving up to Welterweight in the first place.
Well said - I pretty much ignore all the idiots who still ride the 'Ricky lost because he was at 147' or the 'Floyd wouldn't have beaten Hatton at 140' wave. It's wishful thinking at best..
You've made some great points. In defence of the Judah fight also, Floyd was scheduled to fight him BEFORE Zab's loss to Baldomir when he was the dominant and unified force in the Welterweight division. NOT cherry picking.
Re: Can you name a Cherry Picker?
As far as cherry picking World Titles goes, I'd have to say Arturo Gatti.
He also took on Oscar and Floyd in their primes though and got destroyed.
He was a warrior no doubt. But how he got a belt at 140 I do not know.
