Fighters From Europe Are really overrated

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing

This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIwZoLKtMW4. The one where your man looks liked it was his first time in the ring....

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i dunno what the hell you were watching, cause i just see a bad stoppage, and it's clear that Arnaoutis was gonna take Ortiz out in the next round :rolleyes:...

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Agreed. Mighty Mike is still P4P in my eyes. ;D

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I think that Marquez & Mayweather only made their fight so they could both avoid Mighty Mike. In fact the shameful ducking of Mighty Mike by PBF, JMM, Pac, Cotto, Mosley, Paul Williams & Kelly Pavlik is nothing but a smear on the sport of boxing.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i dunno what the hell you were watching, cause i just see a bad stoppage, and it's clear that Arnaoutis was gonna take Ortiz out in the next round :rolleyes:...

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Agreed. Mighty Mike is still P4P in my eyes. ;D

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I think that Marquez & Mayweather only made their fight so they could both avoid Mighty Mike. In fact the shameful ducking of Mighty Mike by PBF, JMM, Pac, Cotto, Mosley, Paul Williams & Kelly Pavlik is nothing but a smear on the sport of boxing.

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Arnaoutis makes PBF and Pac look like Charlie Zelenoff and Kid Thunder ;D

If Euro fighters were so overrated, why are the Klitchko's dominating the Heavyweight scene? And Lewis before the Klitchko's?

Naseem Hamed ... i hate the guy. I generally hate all loud mouth and arrogant boxers, but he's not overrated. He got serious talent but wasted it IMO.

And I don't think you should be generalizing that Euro fighters are overrated. It all depends on the boxer and not the nationality. Im Filipino, but I can say that Boom2x Bautista was overrated ;D

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

No offense to anyone here, but since this is a message board, I have to call it the way I see it. And after reading quite a few posts and threads here, Euro fighters get way overhyped by the media and by their fanboys.

A few on the list:
Rickey Hatton, Nigel Benn, Prince Naseem, Mighty Mike, Henry Cooper, Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Dariusz Michalczewski, Max Schmeling, Frank Bruno, etc.

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Well by fanboy, I presume you mean a Fanatic, rather than its true meaning in boxing: Fan(cy); a financial backer (sponsor) of a fighter.

By definition a fanatic is going to overrate; that is a bit of a no-brainer.

But now I am going to bite on your juicy worm, and perhaps yank you into the lake, because I will not be caught.....

You have picked some awful, awful examples:

Ricky Hatton was an underrated fighter, who upset an old excellent fighter in Kostya Tszyu. He then used his support to get him some big fights, and showed himself capable against all but the very best, Hatton was hardly overrated.

Nigel Benn was an exciting face first puncher, who got found out at 160lbs, only to reinvent himself as a smartish fighter at 168lbs, who used his experience to beat the streaking Gerald McClellan and give a prime Eubank hell in a fight perhaps he could of edged.

Naseem Hamed was an excellent fighter who fought and beat everything put in front of him, before getting a bit to cocky and losing Barrera. Unable to regain the fire that got him to the top, Naseem called it a day, disappointed, but hardly overrated, anyone who saw the Vazquez or Badillo fights, know Naseem was mighty fine at his best.

Sir 'enry was a British institution, I do not think even his biggest fans considers him great. But he was brave, had a mean left hook and always gave his best, and we like those qualities in Britain.

Lewis has shown himself the Heavyweight of the last 15 years. The fact that it is six years since he retired and we have yet to even find a fighter to have a legitimate claim to his Championship, shows to a point how good he was.

Calzaghe beat everything put on front of him, and now it seems is that determined to keep his '0' that he is now 47-0 having added his son to the record. ;D

Michalczewski sucked so much, that for whatever reason, a near prime Roy Jones Jr choose not to fight him....

Schmeling unlike Buster probably holds the record for biggest upset in Heavyweight history when he beat Joe Louis. Add this to a two year reign as champ, a title lost on a debatable decision, and being involved in the most important fight in boxing history, and I would say Max was hardly overrated.

Bruno was a 80s version of Cooper, it is just the division is that bad today, there is a case that Bruno could of been a top fighter in this era, rather than just being a top ten contender that he was in the 80s.

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Get it together man!!!! Dariuz sat ringside at the Jones vs Virgil hill fight, witnessed Roy stop a man that had never been stopped with body shot...then hopped his ass on a plane and never went back to the states.

DM was the most overrated of all the so called "european guys that roy ducked",... He would have been toyed with like Richard Hall. Eubank stood the best chance against prime roy, Benn and the rest would have gone to sleep at 160-168....

Eubank states in his own fucking book that its unlikely that he would have beat jones. Futhermore while he was still competing it was him that said if he didnt see way to beat jones that he wouldnt face him. They never fought so... go figure... Benn is probably the only one that really wanted to face face jones, but after he and gman beat the hell out of each other, he would have been torn to shreds by roy..so call that unfortunate timing...

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

No offense to anyone here, but since this is a message board, I have to call it the way I see it. And after reading quite a few posts and threads here, Euro fighters get way overhyped by the media and by their fanboys.

A few on the list:
Rickey Hatton, Nigel Benn, Prince Naseem, Mighty Mike, Henry Cooper, Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Dariusz Michalczewski, Max Schmeling, Frank Bruno, etc.

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Well by fanboy, I presume you mean a Fanatic, rather than its true meaning in boxing: Fan(cy); a financial backer (sponsor) of a fighter.

By definition a fanatic is going to overrate; that is a bit of a no-brainer.

But now I am going to bite on your juicy worm, and perhaps yank you into the lake, because I will not be caught.....

You have picked some awful, awful examples:

Ricky Hatton was an underrated fighter, who upset an old excellent fighter in Kostya Tszyu. He then used his support to get him some big fights, and showed himself capable against all but the very best, Hatton was hardly overrated.

Nigel Benn was an exciting face first puncher, who got found out at 160lbs, only to reinvent himself as a smartish fighter at 168lbs, who used his experience to beat the streaking Gerald McClellan and give a prime Eubank hell in a fight perhaps he could of edged.

Naseem Hamed was an excellent fighter who fought and beat everything put in front of him, before getting a bit to cocky and losing Barrera. Unable to regain the fire that got him to the top, Naseem called it a day, disappointed, but hardly overrated, anyone who saw the Vazquez or Badillo fights, know Naseem was mighty fine at his best.

Sir 'enry was a British institution, I do not think even his biggest fans considers him great. But he was brave, had a mean left hook and always gave his best, and we like those qualities in Britain.

Lewis has shown himself the Heavyweight of the last 15 years. The fact that it is six years since he retired and we have yet to even find a fighter to have a legitimate claim to his Championship, shows to a point how good he was.

Calzaghe beat everything put on front of him, and now it seems is that determined to keep his '0' that he is now 47-0 having added his son to the record. ;D

Michalczewski sucked so much, that for whatever reason, a near prime Roy Jones Jr choose not to fight him....

Schmeling unlike Buster probably holds the record for biggest upset in Heavyweight history when he beat Joe Louis. Add this to a two year reign as champ, a title lost on a debatable decision, and being involved in the most important fight in boxing history, and I would say Max was hardly overrated.

Bruno was a 80s version of Cooper, it is just the division is that bad today, there is a case that Bruno could of been a top fighter in this era, rather than just being a top ten contender that he was in the 80s.

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Get it together man!!!! Dariuz sat ringside at the Jones vs Virgil hill fight, witnessed Roy stop a man that had never been stopped with body shot...then hopped his ass on a plane and never went back to the states.

DM was the most overrated of all the so called "european guys that roy ducked",... He would have been toyed with like Richard Hall. Eubank stood the best chance against prime roy, Benn and the rest would have gone to sleep at 160-168....

Eubank states in his own fucking book that its unlikely that he would have beat jones. Futhermore while he was still competing it was him that said if he didnt see way to beat jones that he wouldnt face him. They never fought so... go figure... Benn is probably the only one that really wanted to face face jones, but after he and gman beat the hell out of each other, he would have been torn to shreds by roy..so call that unfortunate timing...

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I guess I'm not the only one that thinks DM ducked Roy. And I'm probably one of the few guys here that thinks if both had fought in their primes, Roy comes out on top.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Well by fanboy, I presume you mean a Fanatic, rather than its true meaning in boxing: Fan(cy); a financial backer (sponsor) of a fighter.

By definition a fanatic is going to overrate; that is a bit of a no-brainer.

But now I am going to bite on your juicy worm, and perhaps yank you into the lake, because I will not be caught.....

You have picked some awful, awful examples:

Ricky Hatton was an underrated fighter, who upset an old excellent fighter in Kostya Tszyu. He then used his support to get him some big fights, and showed himself capable against all but the very best, Hatton was hardly overrated.

Nigel Benn was an exciting face first puncher, who got found out at 160lbs, only to reinvent himself as a smartish fighter at 168lbs, who used his experience to beat the streaking Gerald McClellan and give a prime Eubank hell in a fight perhaps he could of edged.

Naseem Hamed was an excellent fighter who fought and beat everything put in front of him, before getting a bit to cocky and losing Barrera. Unable to regain the fire that got him to the top, Naseem called it a day, disappointed, but hardly overrated, anyone who saw the Vazquez or Badillo fights, know Naseem was mighty fine at his best.

Sir 'enry was a British institution, I do not think even his biggest fans considers him great. But he was brave, had a mean left hook and always gave his best, and we like those qualities in Britain.

Lewis has shown himself the Heavyweight of the last 15 years. The fact that it is six years since he retired and we have yet to even find a fighter to have a legitimate claim to his Championship, shows to a point how good he was.

Calzaghe beat everything put on front of him, and now it seems is that determined to keep his '0' that he is now 47-0 having added his son to the record. ;D

Michalczewski sucked so much, that for whatever reason, a near prime Roy Jones Jr choose not to fight him....

Schmeling unlike Buster probably holds the record for biggest upset in Heavyweight history when he beat Joe Louis. Add this to a two year reign as champ, a title lost on a debatable decision, and being involved in the most important fight in boxing history, and I would say Max was hardly overrated.

Bruno was a 80s version of Cooper, it is just the division is that bad today, there is a case that Bruno could of been a top fighter in this era, rather than just being a top ten contender that he was in the 80s.

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Get it together man!!!! Dariuz sat ringside at the Jones vs Virgil hill fight, witnessed Roy stop a man that had never been stopped with body shot...then hopped his ass on a plane and never went back to the states.

DM was the most overrated of all the so called "european guys that roy ducked",... He would have been toyed with like Richard Hall. Eubank stood the best chance against prime roy, Benn and the rest would have gone to sleep at 160-168....

Eubank states in his own fucking book that its unlikely that he would have beat jones. Futhermore while he was still competing it was him that said if he didnt see way to beat jones that he wouldnt face him. They never fought so... go figure... Benn is probably the only one that really wanted to face face jones, but after he and gman beat the hell out of each other, he would have been torn to shreds by roy..so call that unfortunate timing...

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I guess I'm not the only one that thinks DM ducked Roy. And I'm probably one of the few guys here that thinks if both had fought in their primes, Roy comes out on top.

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Even considering Roy would have won, it absolutely doesn't mean that DM wasn't a very good overall fighter. Plus, all the other points britboys are mostly valid in my opinion, he gave good proof that a lot of the fighters you did mention as underrated in fact were not.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Well by fanboy, I presume you mean a Fanatic, rather than its true meaning in boxing: Fan(cy); a financial backer (sponsor) of a fighter.

By definition a fanatic is going to overrate; that is a bit of a no-brainer.

But now I am going to bite on your juicy worm, and perhaps yank you into the lake, because I will not be caught.....

You have picked some awful, awful examples:

Ricky Hatton was an underrated fighter, who upset an old excellent fighter in Kostya Tszyu. He then used his support to get him some big fights, and showed himself capable against all but the very best, Hatton was hardly overrated.

Nigel Benn was an exciting face first puncher, who got found out at 160lbs, only to reinvent himself as a smartish fighter at 168lbs, who used his experience to beat the streaking Gerald McClellan and give a prime Eubank hell in a fight perhaps he could of edged.

Naseem Hamed was an excellent fighter who fought and beat everything put in front of him, before getting a bit to cocky and losing Barrera. Unable to regain the fire that got him to the top, Naseem called it a day, disappointed, but hardly overrated, anyone who saw the Vazquez or Badillo fights, know Naseem was mighty fine at his best.

Sir 'enry was a British institution, I do not think even his biggest fans considers him great. But he was brave, had a mean left hook and always gave his best, and we like those qualities in Britain.

Lewis has shown himself the Heavyweight of the last 15 years. The fact that it is six years since he retired and we have yet to even find a fighter to have a legitimate claim to his Championship, shows to a point how good he was.

Calzaghe beat everything put on front of him, and now it seems is that determined to keep his '0' that he is now 47-0 having added his son to the record. ;D

Michalczewski sucked so much, that for whatever reason, a near prime Roy Jones Jr choose not to fight him....

Schmeling unlike Buster probably holds the record for biggest upset in Heavyweight history when he beat Joe Louis. Add this to a two year reign as champ, a title lost on a debatable decision, and being involved in the most important fight in boxing history, and I would say Max was hardly overrated.

Bruno was a 80s version of Cooper, it is just the division is that bad today, there is a case that Bruno could of been a top fighter in this era, rather than just being a top ten contender that he was in the 80s.

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Get it together man!!!! Dariuz sat ringside at the Jones vs Virgil hill fight, witnessed Roy stop a man that had never been stopped with body shot...then hopped his ass on a plane and never went back to the states.

DM was the most overrated of all the so called "european guys that roy ducked",... He would have been toyed with like Richard Hall. Eubank stood the best chance against prime roy, Benn and the rest would have gone to sleep at 160-168....

Eubank states in his own fucking book that its unlikely that he would have beat jones. Futhermore while he was still competing it was him that said if he didnt see way to beat jones that he wouldnt face him. They never fought so... go figure... Benn is probably the only one that really wanted to face face jones, but after he and gman beat the hell out of each other, he would have been torn to shreds by roy..so call that unfortunate timing...

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I guess I'm not the only one that thinks DM ducked Roy. And I'm probably one of the few guys here that thinks if both had fought in their primes, Roy comes out on top.

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You are. Just look at how many DM threads and fans this board has - Practically heaving with them. No-one talks much about Roy around here.

Who's this Roy Jones guy :confused:

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I'm a fight fan and have pretty good knowledge on the sport and probably might learn more at this forum, but I look at things objectively or try to.

And now there is all this hoopla and hype about Mighty Mike Arnaoutis. Some folks on here talking about that he's going to knock out Mayweather or Pacman if they meet up. Does he even belong in the same sentence with those 2? Yeah Mighty Mike will knock those 2 out maybe 8 years from now when Floyd and Manny are shot fighters and are still fighting because they need to pay their taxes.

Maybe the last all time geat European fighter was Bob Fitzsimmons when the Marquess of Queensbury Rules started to be implemented in boxing. I think you have to go back that far for a great European fighter. :-\

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You do realise that the Mighty Mike Arnaoutis thread on here was a massive, blatant joke to wind some pacfans up? You weren't stupid enough to think that it was serious were you? :-\

Also plenty of British boxing fans picked PBF to school and stop Hatton and for Pacman to do the same as long as he could handle the size difference. I would like to see the legions of people you seem to be talking about.

Every country will get a little excited over their fighters... Lacy was the next big thing at Super Middle weight... look at him now. Chad Dawson is going to be the next big thing at thing at Light Heavy, once he can dominantly beat an old ex-crack head and Sam Peter was the second coming of George Foreman.

Shit job trolling.

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

Get it together man!!!! Dariuz sat ringside at the Jones vs Virgil hill fight, witnessed Roy stop a man that had never been stopped with body shot...then hopped his ass on a plane and never went back to the states.

DM was the most overrated of all the so called "european guys that roy ducked",... He would have been toyed with like Richard Hall. Eubank stood the best chance against prime roy, Benn and the rest would have gone to sleep at 160-168....

Eubank states in his own fucking book that its unlikely that he would have beat jones. Futhermore while he was still competing it was him that said if he didnt see way to beat jones that he wouldnt face him. They never fought so... go figure... Benn is probably the only one that really wanted to face face jones, but after he and gman beat the hell out of each other, he would have been torn to shreds by roy..so call that unfortunate timing...

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I guess I'm not the only one that thinks DM ducked Roy. And I'm probably one of the few guys here that thinks if both had fought in their primes, Roy comes out on top.

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Even considering Roy would have won, it absolutely doesn't mean that DM wasn't a very good overall fighter. Plus, all the other points britboys are mostly valid in my opinion, he gave good proof that a lot of the fighters you did mention as underrated in fact were not.

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I'm not saying these fighters are not good, but compared to the hype they get compared to their level of accomplishments and opponents are a little bit unwarranted in my opinion.

For example, Prince Naseem was good just not an elite fighter in my eyes, and same thing with Hatton, but they get trumped up and hyped up a little bit no?

As for Joe Calzaghe, he beat a 43 year old Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, in my eyes those 2 are way past their primes physically and boxing wise. If this fight had taken place 10 years ago, then yeah it would be something to talk about.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I guess I'm not the only one that thinks DM ducked Roy. And I'm probably one of the few guys here that thinks if both had fought in their primes, Roy comes out on top.

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Even considering Roy would have won, it absolutely doesn't mean that DM wasn't a very good overall fighter. Plus, all the other points britboys are mostly valid in my opinion, he gave good proof that a lot of the fighters you did mention as underrated in fact were not.

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I'm not saying these fighters are not good, but compared to the hype they get compared to their level of accomplishments and opponents are a little bit unwarranted in my opinion.

For example, Prince Naseem was good just not an elite fighter in my eyes, and same thing with Hatton, but they get trumped up and hyped up a little bit no?

As for Joe Calzaghe, he beat a 43 year old Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, in my eyes those 2 are way past their primes physically and boxing wise. If this fight had taken place 10 years ago, then yeah it would be something to talk about.

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Nobody is talking about it though. Everyone on here knows his win over Jones means hardly anything. His win over Hopkins took on more value when Hopkins schooled Pavlik - Now if you want to talk about hyping a fighter....

With Hatton i think you have confused his fan-base with hype. Nobody believes he is/was the 2nd coming. Pretty much everyone on here knew where he was at.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I'm a fight fan and have pretty good knowledge on the sport and probably might learn more at this forum, but I look at things objectively or try to.

And now there is all this hoopla and hype about Mighty Mike Arnaoutis. Some folks on here talking about that he's going to knock out Mayweather or Pacman if they meet up. Does he even belong in the same sentence with those 2? Yeah Mighty Mike will knock those 2 out maybe 8 years from now when Floyd and Manny are shot fighters and are still fighting because they need to pay their taxes.

Maybe the last all time geat European fighter was Bob Fitzsimmons when the Marquess of Queensbury Rules started to be implemented in boxing. I think you have to go back that far for a great European fighter. :-\

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You do realise that the Mighty Mike Arnaoutis thread on here was a massive, blatant joke to wind some pacfans up? You weren't stupid enough to think that it was serious were you? :-\

Also plenty of British boxing fans picked PBF to school and stop Hatton and for Pacman to do the same as long as he could handle the size difference. I would like to see the legions of people you seem to be talking about.

Every country will get a little excited over their fighters... Lacy was the next big thing at Super Middle weight... look at him now. Chad Dawson is going to be the next big thing at thing at Light Heavy, once he can dominantly beat an old ex-crack head and Sam Peter was the second coming of George Foreman.

Shit job trolling.

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Nooooooo!!! This cannot be so!! :(:p;D

Actually, I don't see too many European fighters being overhyped so I don't know what this thread is all about.

Fighters like Hamed, Hatton, Calzaghe and so on were all good fighters. Calzaghe on his day could be a lot more than good. But I don't see anything overhyped about those fighters.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I'm a fight fan and have pretty good knowledge on the sport and probably might learn more at this forum, but I look at things objectively or try to.

And now there is all this hoopla and hype about Mighty Mike Arnaoutis. Some folks on here talking about that he's going to knock out Mayweather or Pacman if they meet up. Does he even belong in the same sentence with those 2? Yeah Mighty Mike will knock those 2 out maybe 8 years from now when Floyd and Manny are shot fighters and are still fighting because they need to pay their taxes.

Maybe the last all time geat European fighter was Bob Fitzsimmons when the Marquess of Queensbury Rules started to be implemented in boxing. I think you have to go back that far for a great European fighter. :-\

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You do realise that the Mighty Mike Arnaoutis thread on here was a massive, blatant joke to wind some pacfans up? You weren't stupid enough to think that it was serious were you? :-\

Also plenty of British boxing fans picked PBF to school and stop Hatton and for Pacman to do the same as long as he could handle the size difference. I would like to see the legions of people you seem to be talking about.

Every country will get a little excited over their fighters... Lacy was the next big thing at Super Middle weight... look at him now. Chad Dawson is going to be the next big thing at thing at Light Heavy, once he can dominantly beat an old ex-crack head and Sam Peter was the second coming of George Foreman.

Shit job trolling.

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Nooooooo!!! This cannot be so!! :(:p;D

Actually, I don't see too many European fighters being overhyped so I don't know what this thread is all about.

Fighters like Hamed, Hatton, Calzaghe and so on were all good fighters. Calzaghe on his day could be a lot more than good. But I don't see anything overhyped about those fighters.

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he,s,jealous

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Even considering Roy would have won, it absolutely doesn't mean that DM wasn't a very good overall fighter. Plus, all the other points britboys are mostly valid in my opinion, he gave good proof that a lot of the fighters you did mention as underrated in fact were not.

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I'm not saying these fighters are not good, but compared to the hype they get compared to their level of accomplishments and opponents are a little bit unwarranted in my opinion.

For example, Prince Naseem was good just not an elite fighter in my eyes, and same thing with Hatton, but they get trumped up and hyped up a little bit no?

As for Joe Calzaghe, he beat a 43 year old Hopkins and a 39 year old Roy Jones, in my eyes those 2 are way past their primes physically and boxing wise. If this fight had taken place 10 years ago, then yeah it would be something to talk about.

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Nobody is talking about it though. Everyone on here knows his win over Jones means hardly anything. His win over Hopkins took on more value when Hopkins schooled Pavlik - Now if you want to talk about hyping a fighter....

With Hatton i think you have confused his fan-base with hype. Nobody believes he is/was the 2nd coming. Pretty much everyone on here knew where he was at.

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You're a good and sensible poster, so I apologized to people out there that are offended by this thread I made, and you do have a point with fan base and hype. It's just that some posters on the internet and real life makes some ridiculous statements, like "Hatton will knock out Floyd or Pacman." I just knew that Hatton is a good fighter but in my eyes isn't within the same realm as Floyd or Pacman. Dariusz Michalczewski, a solid fighter but not an elite fighter like RJJ, neither is Calzaghe in my opinion.

And as a new poster I didn't know about the Mighty Mike joke, its just that I read some old posts here and many posters were making even more riduculous statements like, "Floyd duck fighters" or "Pacman fought a drained DeLaHoya at 147 and should have fought him at 154 to make the fight fair." Which in my opinion are idiotic statements themselves. SO it's hard to tell which is joking and which are real statements.

Could somebody please tell us when somebody has ever said that Henry Cooper was one of the top fighters from his era etc... etc...

Having fans/admiration is vastly different to how your ability is rated.

It seems like this rant/baiting is purely based of assumptions you've created to help support whatever the point you're trying to make is.

edit: ok... saying that Oscar was shot/weight drained is idiotic? Fucking hell. This kid is all over the place isn't he. It shouldn't matter if you're a new poster or not... that shouldn't stop you from seeing the blatant sarcasm about 'Mighty' Mike.