Had to know we'd get a longish reply from Bilbo as soon as religion / evolution became part of the topic ;D
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Had to know we'd get a longish reply from Bilbo as soon as religion / evolution became part of the topic ;D
By definition an individual species must be unable to reproduce with another species so I'm very sceptical of your interpretation of this first Eve story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Just a quick comment on the incest creationism story.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharlaVery good point Missy - I had not clicked onto the link between this and his other, more dominant obsession!Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
I went to a course on Australian Aboriginal culture yesterday and one of their pretty sophisticated laws was the 8 skins law.
Basically you belonged to a 'skin' and could not marry other particular skins - designed so the closest relative you could marry would be a fifth cousin. Designed specifically to avoid incest.
I went home to my religious flatmate and among other impressive things about their traditional laws/culture I recited this 8 skins law.
It suddenly occured to her that she believed in creation and it must've meant that at some stage if what she believed was literally true everyone slept with everyone. She looked pretty horrified. So glad I don't believe in that!
It is true that the original sons and daughters of Adam and Eve would have married each other other, hence brother sister marriages, however this was at the very start of creation and brother sister relations were acceptable then.
Only in Moses time in Leviticus were familial relationships outlawed, prior to that period they were commonplace, Abraham himself married his half sister.
The point is familial relationships are wrong today because of two reasons, one the Bible condems them so morally wrong and secondly because our genes today have too many copy errors since the fall so we need to spread the gene pool a bit.
Adam and Eve's children were born into a near perfect world and the copying errors and bad genes wern't an issue then. Only after thousands of years of denigration did that law need to be changed, for the health of mankind.
And anyway, regardless of whether you believe in creationism or not the first people were incestous.
Science has now proven that the entire human race does indeed desend from a single female (they call it the Eve hypotheses), they only differ with the Bible in the Time Line and the location.
That's why I laugh at scoffers who mock the idea of a first man and women, completely ignorant to the fact that even if you believe in evolution you have to accept there was a first human from whom we are all evolved anyhow.
I don't believe 'the first human' was something like Virgin Mary and spontaneously became preggers without a male being involved somewhere along the line.
Immaculate conception is more of a biblical idea i think.
You'll have to send me a link of this story so I can read what they really mean.
I suspect what it really means is the 'first eve' had a lot of human traits which were passed on and actual speciation occured over time probably in conjuction with other environmental factors or behavioural adaptations made possible by those traits.
There is nothing that says incest needs to occur for the formation of a new species via evolution at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharlaBy definition an individual species must be unable to reproduce with another species so I'm very sceptical of your interpretation of this first Eve story.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboJust a quick comment on the incest creationism story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharla
It is true that the original sons and daughters of Adam and Eve would have married each other other, hence brother sister marriages, however this was at the very start of creation and brother sister relations were acceptable then.
Only in Moses time in Leviticus were familial relationships outlawed, prior to that period they were commonplace, Abraham himself married his half sister.
The point is familial relationships are wrong today because of two reasons, one the Bible condems them so morally wrong and secondly because our genes today have too many copy errors since the fall so we need to spread the gene pool a bit.
Adam and Eve's children were born into a near perfect world and the copying errors and bad genes wern't an issue then. Only after thousands of years of denigration did that law need to be changed, for the health of mankind.
And anyway, regardless of whether you believe in creationism or not the first people were incestous.
Science has now proven that the entire human race does indeed desend from a single female (they call it the Eve hypotheses), they only differ with the Bible in the Time Line and the location.
That's why I laugh at scoffers who mock the idea of a first man and women, completely ignorant to the fact that even if you believe in evolution you have to accept there was a first human from whom we are all evolved anyhow.
I don't believe 'the first human' was something like Virgin Mary and spontaneously became preggers without a male being involved somewhere along the line.
Immaculate conception is more of a biblical idea i think.
You'll have to send me a link of this story so I can read what they really mean.
I suspect what it really means is the 'first eve' had a lot of human traits which were passed on and actual speciation occured over time probably in conjuction with other environmental factors or behavioural adaptations made possible by those traits.
There is nothing that says incest needs to occur for the formation of a new species via evolution at all.
Also if you choose to believe in it word for word then you have to side with the people who claim the Earth was created approx 6000 years ago or whatever they say. Also that God has planted older bones all around the place to try and fool you into disbelieving in him so he's got an inbuilt excuse to burn your ass up. Nice God.
Yeah and I struggle to understand why an all powerful god would only start with two people if it means he has to approve incest to begin with and then decide it's unacceptable later.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by SharlaBy definition an individual species must be unable to reproduce with another species so I'm very sceptical of your interpretation of this first Eve story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I don't believe 'the first human' was something like Virgin Mary and spontaneously became preggers without a male being involved somewhere along the line.
Immaculate conception is more of a biblical idea i think.
You'll have to send me a link of this story so I can read what they really mean.
I suspect what it really means is the 'first eve' had a lot of human traits which were passed on and actual speciation occured over time probably in conjuction with other environmental factors or behavioural adaptations made possible by those traits.
There is nothing that says incest needs to occur for the formation of a new species via evolution at all.
Also if you choose to believe in it word for word then you have to side with the people who claim the Earth was created approx 6000 years ago or whatever they say. Also that God has planted older bones all around the place to try and fool you into disbelieving in him so he's got an inbuilt excuse to burn your ass up. Nice God.
Wouldn't it be easier to just create more people from the beginning?!?! Seems again to set people up to be burned - changing the rules so what they're used to, been doing for several generations is suddenly wrong and they can now be committed to hell for all eternity for doing what he wanted them to do last week! :confused:
There were people prior to Adam and Eve they were black skinned made in the image of God. Prior to light there was no color and no color is black. (Remember the voice is first and it said ' let there be light".That is consciousness arising out of the formless void.(the real God not the modified one evolves and expands as opposed to "the jealous one" with a fixed point of view etc. How can a God be jealous? When that same God supposedly made everything ? Really!
Actually before light everything would be black. I think that is very logical. Australian aboriginal history is supposed to be much longer than European history I'm told. Perhaps their ideals are closer to the truth in many ways.
Some things that seemed logical about they way they see the world which i think is similar in some other cultures were:
They have plant and animal totems - they don't see themselves as being above the animals. this stops them from poaching things to excess. They do eat their totems but do not drive it close to extinction because that is like wiping out their own brother or sister etc.
They have mens law and women's law. My favourite example was the mother in Law - law.
Basically your mother in law decides your punishment if you beat or kill your wife.
It sounds bad for the guy but actually the mother in law has to set her punushment with a group of other women so she can't just set something really unfair.
Also you are not allowed to know her or any of the other potential mothers in law ever. You don't associate with them. I think it means you fear their punushment because you don't know how hard or easy they will go on you.
To the guys advantage though it also means she can't meddle in your affairs unless you go really wrong and your marriage is between you and your wife. No daily mother in law demands or anything.
Asked why they dno't have one common law the aboriganl guy sais it's because if they have one law and one gender is bigger and strong it sets them up to dominate. keeping it separate help to maintain equality.
The aboriginal way of seeing things - and their law is mixed up with their culture and stories of how things happened in the past - not a religion apparently but close - just seems to set things up for equality so much more than christianity.
Nothing to do with the fact that multiple hot women is one of the most common male fantasies at all I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by LEGIONQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I second that......as long as they were hot. 2 dudes would be wrong but 2 chicks is good stuff indeed.:woot22:
You wouldn't feel differently at all if you were homosexual and then vote two brothers is 'good stuff' ......
I'm not sure than when guys consider this issue they're logic is just slightly influenced by some other head than the one sitting on their shoulders! ;D
Most of the very ancient stories or scripture past along or written down were from a time when mankind felt and thought from the heart linked into the pituitary gland through the Thalamus in the center of the brain more than the mind around it being active first as it is today.
The dreamtime is more about the intent and deeper feeling behind why something evolved or grew to be that way more than exactly how it occurred.
Its from a time when humans were ran from the heart up to the Thalamus up and down the reptilian cortex directly to and from the heart more than the way the brain has evolved into a much larger modern analytical tool separating heart from mind as a choice.
Its hard for many to see the old as anything other than total bullshit where as once that was the true way of simply being.