Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
No it doesn't, it is a Catchweight fight, it is not a Welterweight Catchweight fight. A catchweight fight is a negotiated weight limit BETWEEN two weight classes. Otherwise there would be no reason to mention the catchweight at all, they always fall within a weight class.
If it's between 140 and 147, then it's a welterweight fight. That's what a welterweight fight is. 145 is between those weights, so it's a welterweight fight.
So in your opinion there are no catchweights?
Sure, but a catchweight simply means that the normal limit for a weight class is moved down. But the limit of a weight is NOT what makes it a fight in a particular weight class. The weight class can be any weight between one weight and another. 170 for instance is a light heavy fight because it is above 168 but below 175. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
If it's between 140 and 147, then it's a welterweight fight. That's what a welterweight fight is. 145 is between those weights, so it's a welterweight fight.
So in your opinion there are no catchweights?
Sure, but a catchweight simply means that the normal limit for a weight class is moved down.
But the limit of a weight is NOT what makes it a fight in a particular weight class. The weight class can be any weight between one weight and another. 170 for instance is a light heavy fight because it is above 168 but below 175. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
Maybe, I'm not making my case clear enough.
The limits of the weight class are precisely what makes a fight in a particular weight class. In this case 141 at the low end and 147 at the high end is defined by ALL institutions of professional boxing to define the Welterweight class. Should boxers choose to come in at 142, 146 whatever they are fighting within the RECOGNIZED weight class limits.
Now, the term catchweight comes into play when the official recognized limits of weightclasses are moved and therefore by definition cease to adhere to the established limits of a weightclass.
This is a catchweight fight.
I have to go to a movie now, we can continue later.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Good so you agree that Cotto can come in at 147.
You guys bitching and moaning about the weight and split can save it. No one forced Cotto to take the fight. He has a team of negotiators who settled on those terms with the Paquiao camp. If Cotto and his team are satisfied with the terms, then there's no reason anyone else should care. 145 is a welterweight fight by definition, period. It's perfectly legitimate for the belt to be at stake and Cotto doesn't have a problem with it.
But Manny has issues with fighting at 147 which automatically devalues this fight. No matter who wins IMO.
This is not for the WW crown whatsoever, despite what we are being fed here. Manny is too chicken to fight for that kind of thing. :rolleyes:
Really Miles? I know you have some heavy dislike for the Pacquiao/Roach camp but to call Manny a chicken is a stretch. He already fought Barrera, Morales, and Marquez multiple times!! Then he moved up in weight and was considered the smaller man against Diaz, De La Hoya, Hatton, and now Cotto. Who else is willing to fight these types of fighters and scale as many weights?!
I don't get how people are complaining about P4P fighters matching up with each other. Pac is going up 5 pounds from his last fight and Cotto just needs to lose 1.
But! I don't think the title should be on the line if the limit isn't 147 IMO.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Great news for Manny and for all boxing fans who prefer the actual fights over bearuocratic nonsense.
This will be an historic event with Manny fighting to be the first seven weight world champion in the history of boxing.
Of course a few whiners will moan and argue that Cotto should be stripped and that the well known and respected Antonin Decaire take on Rafal Jackiewicz for the vacant strap but for those of us unburdened by cares of technical rulings regarding fighters weighing two pounds under the max limit we can enjoy a proper good tearup.
I couldn't agree with Bilbo more!
It's 2 pounds FFS. Cotto is happy with it, Manny is happy with it and so is the WBO. It's a perfectly legitimate WW fight and I for one can't wait to see it! :cool:
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Hey everyone! Write to the Nevada Athletic State Commission to protest this fight along with the FLoyd-JMM fight. It's a farce I tell you! No catchweight fights you hear me!
Business & Industry - Nevada Athletic Commission
And the sanctity of an alphabet belt organization must be protected! Floyd and Manny are chicken I say!
:chick07mj8:
Nah, I'm just fukking. Just like Violent Demise said, he's going to get high and order the fight! Though I'm not going to get high but will enjoy this fight and the Floy-JMM fight!:cool:
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Who gives a fuck. They are fighting eachother. Cotto coming in at 145 will make almost zero difference. It makes roughly the same difference as Pac fighting somebody naturally so much bigger does.
All those calling Pac a pussy etc need to give their heads a wobble.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
There you have it. So now the people can go back to b-itching about the catchweight instead.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
You almost have to wonder why there's still even weight divisions any more since so many fights lately take place at catch weights.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
I hope that the belt really is not on the line. If they fight at a catchweight just for the fight then thats okay but if Pac wants the welterweight title his team needs to adhere to the welterweight division range. Welterweight range is not 140.1 to 145. Its nonsensical. If Cotto weighed in at 146 then would he be stripped of his 147 title??? Either way, if a weight class title is on the line then no team should tell the other what part of the weight range they are allowed to put their belt up for. Its changing the rules entirely for a title fight. The rules have to be adamant. Boxing is already dirty enough. This would then open up more bull for boxing. Keep the title out of it and let the fight remain a catchweight fight.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
There you have it. So now the people can go back to b-itching about the catchweight instead.
Hah!! The problem now is that Cotto fans are gonna see that their boy still has a belt even after he gets thumped, and it will bother them because they will know in their hearts that PAC really should be champ.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
There you have it. So now the people can go back to b-itching about the catchweight instead.
Hah!! The problem now is that Cotto fans are gonna see that their boy still has a belt even after he gets thumped, and it will bother them because they will know in their hearts that PAC really should be champ.
Or it is a foot in for a rematch at 147 if Cotto loses. If the higher up really don't want Manny in with Mayweather yet, why not keep all the money again, fight would sell better than most other options even if Cotto loses a closeish decision.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
global
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
There you have it. So now the people can go back to b-itching about the catchweight instead.
Hah!! The problem now is that Cotto fans are gonna see that their boy still has a belt even after he gets thumped, and it will bother them because they will know in their hearts that PAC really should be champ.
Or it is a foot in for a rematch at 147 if Cotto loses. If the higher up really don't want Manny in with Mayweather yet, why not keep all the money again, fight would sell better than most other options even if Cotto loses a closeish decision.
Good point, I hadn't considered that. But I don't think it will be close. And PAC won't bother with a second fight in order to take the belt, cause I don't think gives a damn about the belt in the first place, else he'd fight at 147. And I don't believe PAC or Roach really think that one or two pounds makes a difference.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
There you have it. So now the people can go back to b-itching about the catchweight instead.
I'm satisfied now.
Re: Cotto's welterweight belt is on the line!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
match
You almost have to wonder why there's still even weight divisions any more since so many fights lately take place at catch weights.
Catchweights only occur when champions from different divisions meet. It's not big deal imo. Hopkins was 175 champ Pavlik 160, meet at 170 why is that a problem? Nobody really gives a tuppeny fuck about an alphabet belt anyway.
@ Killersheep, I didn't understand your point about a 145 lb not being valid as a welterweight fight. If a fighter wishes to weigh in at 145 he is perfectly allowed to, he can weigh in at at 141 if he likes.
You keep talking about the rules being changed to set a max limit of 145 but the rules arn't being changed at all. Cotto is AGREEING to come in at 145, he's not being ordered to. It's an agreement between two fighters, both who are happy with the arrangement so what does it have to do with anybody else?
Let me clarify that some more. If Cotto came in over the 145 limit, the fight won't get cancelled, he won't have broken the WBO regulations. All that will happen is that he will have broken the contract with Manny, and would likely have to pay him lots of cash. It has nothing at all to do with the WBO or Cotto and Manny changing the max weight limits for the welterweight division, they don't have the power to do that, it's simply a seperate agreement and should Cotto violate it, he breaks the contract with Manny NOT the WBO.
It's a shame the sanctioning fees arn't being paid, although $400,000 is a lot of dough to cough up.
It wouldn't suprise me Manny really wants that belt that he might pay the fees himself? :thinking2:
If not, well then he probably doesn't care.
It would be nice for him to be a bonafida seven weight world champ but it doesn't really matter, people refer to Calzaghe as a two weight world champ but there was no significant belt on the line against Hopkins either.
Anyhoo, cannot wait for the fight, it's gonna be a barnburner.
