Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
You can list all of the robberies and fights that you want to - but we're only talking about high profile fights here...
Even if America has had twice as many 'robberies'... it's probably had 20 times as many high profile international fights as Germany etc.
So statistically - just listing the countries in which robberies have happened and tallying them is gash.
No smoke with out fire.
Tallying the countries isn't the point. Forrest Gump can workout America will have more robberies due to more high-profile fights. Fuck sake ;D
I'm trying to establish if the attitude of American's thinking they have no chance of getting a decision in Europe, or Brits thinking they need a KO to get a draw in Germany is actually based on any facts?
We should have MORE than a couple of instances, no?
Really? I got the feeling you were insinuating that there has been more in the USA so that it must make the stigma that you get bad decisions in Europe baseless.
You should outline the point you're trying to make at the start of your thread. ;) Otherwise it gets a bit vague.
All I can say is, where has this stigma came from?
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
You can list all of the robberies and fights that you want to - but we're only talking about high profile fights here...
Even if America has had twice as many 'robberies'... it's probably had 20 times as many high profile international fights as Germany etc.
So statistically - just listing the countries in which robberies have happened and tallying them is gash.
No smoke with out fire.
Tallying the countries isn't the point. Forrest Gump can workout America will have more robberies due to more high-profile fights. Fuck sake ;D
I'm trying to establish if the attitude of American's thinking they have no chance of getting a decision in Europe, or Brits thinking they need a KO to get a draw in Germany is actually based on any facts?
We should have MORE than a couple of instances, no?
Really? I got the feeling you were insinuating that there has been more in the USA so that it must make the stigma that you get bad decisions in Europe baseless.
You should outline the point you're trying to make at the start of your thread. ;) Otherwise it gets a bit vague.
All I can say is, where has this stigma came from?
Hmm.. not even I'm that thick.
Where has this stigma come from? Precisely. That's what I would like to find out. Surely someone here knows?
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Maybe I should spell it out;D
I dont care what it is, the judges, the promoters, the ref etc.. Its dodgy and you know it.. Boxing is a corrupt business no matter where, but it sucks that when a fighter goes to europe he knows he needs a KO just to earn a draw.
You were given examples but to categorize every single fight is going to be difficult, and I'll bet you a million bucks that the stigma started decades before this forum was created.. So its not like a few of us yanks around here started a whisper campaign about it and now its full fire.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Yes that classes him as European. Like Alfred Asaro who reffed Benn-McClellan is from Belgium/France which also classes him as European - hence why it was unnecessary to mention them.
Understand? ;)
yea i understand that
you're trying to just insinuate that the US is the capital of bad judging and bad ref's, when it's spread pretty evenly world wide, if you believe that Holyfield/Valuev is the only REAL bad call then you need to stop sucking on the bong buddy, it's clear Europe has had very bad calls, but so has every other fucking corner of the planet, it's the point i tried to make earlier, it's a huge problem in the SPORT itself, not any single given country or area
Fucks sake :rolleyes:
I too believe that bad refs and bad judging goes on EVERYWHERE!!!
I'm trying to find out if there's any actual EVIDENCE to back up peoples claims that Germany/Europe is the robbery capital of boxing.
WE should be able to name loads of fights. But so far no-one can name fuck all apart from Holyfield-Valuev and disputed Froch-Dirrell decision.
Someone here that knows about boxing history must be able to help me out?
Your right my friend, bad judging is everywhere although some places are more notorious than others. In the states, Nevada has had some pretty dodgy decisions and in Europe, Italy was always known as a place where you needed a knock-out. I remember maybe 10yrs back an englishman won a title in Italy (it may have been robin reid) and the boxing fraternity were really taken aback by this. Not because of the fighter involved but because it was in Italy.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
haha...
nice name :LOLATYOU:.
I remember someone else had it once, can't recall exactly who. But yea, don't be trying to claim the arcade scores they got with that name at the time.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
Maybe I should spell it out;D
I dont care what it is, the judges, the promoters, the ref etc.. Its dodgy and you know it.. Boxing is a corrupt business no matter where, but it sucks that when a fighter goes to europe he knows he needs a KO just to earn a draw.
You were given examples but to categorize every single fight is going to be difficult, and I'll bet you a million bucks that the stigma started decades before this forum was created.. So its not like a few of us yanks around here started a whisper campaign about it and now its full fire.
This is not just about "yanks" believing you can't get a fair game in Europe.
From when I was a kid it's been common knowledge that "Brits can't get a decision in Germany/Italy".. it's still commonly said by fans, Journos and TV pundits. Froch has just said he refuses to fight Abraham in Germany because of dodgy decisions.
I want some evidence to back this claim up. I've shown in recent times Brits have got decisions in "world" title fights over there.
So far nobody has named any shocking robberies of Ameican's that would have been out of the norm in the USA.
I too think this idea stems from decades ago. But it might also be some unfounded prejudice nonsense that stuck over decades from one or two dodgy decisions that doesn't hold much weight anymore. So if we don't know where the belief originates from and can't back it up with our own evidence then we're being pretty ignorant, no?
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
Maybe I should spell it out;D
I dont care what it is, the judges, the promoters, the ref etc.. Its dodgy and you know it.. Boxing is a corrupt business no matter where, but it sucks that when a fighter goes to europe he knows he needs a KO just to earn a draw.
You were given examples but to categorize every single fight is going to be difficult, and I'll bet you a million bucks that the stigma started decades before this forum was created.. So its not like a few of us yanks around here started a whisper campaign about it and now its full fire.
This is not just about "yanks" believing you can't get a fair game in Europe.
From when I was a kid it's been common knowledge that "Brits can't get a decision in Germany/Italy".. it's still commonly said by fans, Journos and TV pundits. Froch has just said he refuses to fight Abraham in Germany because of dodgy decisions.
I want some evidence to back this claim up. I've shown in recent times Brits have got decisions in "world" title fights over there.
So far nobody has named any shocking robberies of Ameican's that would have been out of the norm in the USA.
I too think this idea stems from decades ago. But it might also be some unfounded prejudice nonsense that stuck over decades from one or two dodgy decisions that doesn't hold much weight anymore. So if we don't know where the belief originates from and can't back it up with our own evidence then we're being pretty ignorant, no?
I know you Fenster.. Thats a loaded question, its not that simple with you;D
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Youngblood
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
haha...
nice name :LOLATYOU:.
I remember someone else had it once, can't recall exactly who. But yea, don't be trying to claim the arcade scores they got with that name at the time.
I forgot we had an arcade :headscratch:
I got owned by Spicoli because of the NY Giants:mad:
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owned by Spicoli
Maybe I should spell it out;D
I dont care what it is, the judges, the promoters, the ref etc.. Its dodgy and you know it.. Boxing is a corrupt business no matter where, but it sucks that when a fighter goes to europe he knows he needs a KO just to earn a draw.
You were given examples but to categorize every single fight is going to be difficult, and I'll bet you a million bucks that the stigma started decades before this forum was created.. So its not like a few of us yanks around here started a whisper campaign about it and now its full fire.
This is not just about "yanks" believing you can't get a fair game in Europe.
From when I was a kid it's been common knowledge that "Brits can't get a decision in Germany/Italy".. it's still commonly said by fans, Journos and TV pundits. Froch has just said he refuses to fight Abraham in Germany because of dodgy decisions.
I want some evidence to back this claim up. I've shown in recent times Brits have got decisions in "world" title fights over there.
So far nobody has named any shocking robberies of Ameican's that would have been out of the norm in the USA.
I too think this idea stems from decades ago. But it might also be some unfounded prejudice nonsense that stuck over decades from one or two dodgy decisions that doesn't hold much weight anymore. So if we don't know where the belief originates from and can't back it up with our own evidence then we're being pretty ignorant, no?
I know you Fenster.. Thats a loaded question, its not that simple with you;D
lol, I have no ulterior motive.
I would love for some definitive proof to back up this claim about robberies in Europe. Or at least some history to find out where this idea originated from.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
lol, I have no ulterior motive.
I would love for some definitive proof to back up this claim about robberies in Europe. Or at least some history to find out where this idea originated from.
I can remember Harry Carpenter and/or Reg Gutteridge saying something like "the old saying that you need a knockout to get a draw in Italy." It just fits in nicely with the general Italian stereotype of everything being corrupt (although that's an accurate stereotype :) ). I'm not sure how many fights from Italy the BBC and ITV covered in the post-war years but I don't think it was too many, maybe that "old saying" comes from boxers and cornermen who fought out there, lost close decisions and maybe thought they'd done better than they had done and they're not exactly unbiased observers. There probably were one or two outright robberies in Italy over the years but I'm sure close decisions in Italy and Germany go roughly the same way they do in Britain and America, and that all countries are pretty similar in this regard.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Listing Fights that happened in America against fighters who clearly are American or fight the majority of their fights in America are clearly Farcial.
People are pissed about the involvement of Europe's and UK's ref's in fights in addition to the decisions
Benn-McClellan
Hatton-Tzyu
Dirrell-Froch
Abraham-Miranda
Its clear what your trying to establish, but quite empty in theory
Well name the dodgy decisions then? That's all i'm trying to get at. If decisions in Europe are so stunningly biased we should ALL know more than the odd fucking Holyfield-Valuev fight.
As for Europe's refs
American ref Randy Neumann did Abraham-Miranda and
Panamanian ref Hector Afu did Dirrell-Froch. ;)
Look at Chris Eubanks career. He benefited from more than one gift win. Where? In the UK.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Martin Camara getting robbed against John david Jackson for the wbo light middle title. Jackson was a mile ahead when Camara clobbered him and all sorts of shennigans led to the bout being declared a 11 round no contest. An absolute fucking robbery.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
lol, I have no ulterior motive.
I would love for some definitive proof to back up this claim about robberies in Europe. Or at least some history to find out where this idea originated from.
I can remember Harry Carpenter and/or Reg Gutteridge saying something like "the old saying that you need a knockout to get a draw in Italy." It just fits in nicely with the general Italian stereotype of everything being corrupt (although that's an accurate stereotype :) ).
I'm not sure how many fights from Italy the BBC and ITV covered in the post-war years but I don't think it was too many, maybe that "old saying" comes from boxers and cornermen who fought out there, lost close decisions and maybe thought they'd done better than they had done and they're not exactly unbiased observers. There probably were one or two outright robberies in Italy over the years but I'm sure close decisions in Italy and Germany go roughly the same way they do in Britain and America, and that all countries are pretty similar in this regard.
That's exactly what I've been thinking.
Recently Colin Lynes lost in a European title shot to M'baye (non-Televised here). The word coming back was Lynes had been robbed, he said this himself on Steve Bunces radio show. And yet reports from neutrals that watched the fight said he lost a boring fight fair and square.
I think this probably happened numerous times in the past.
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Brodie-Jorrin - ENG (The American was favoured in the Brits backyard. Shocking)
Agreed that was one shocking decision, really felt for Brodie that night !
Also the classic 1st fight of Mayweather Castillo ! ;D
Re: Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mattyhitman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Brodie-Jorrin - ENG (The American was favoured in the Brits backyard. Shocking)
Agreed that was one shocking decision, really felt for Brodie that night !
Also the classic 1st fight of Mayweather Castillo ! ;D
Far from a robbery. It was a close fight that was probably split over a round or two. The scorecards were too wide, but many still feel Mayweather did enough. It's like calling Calzaghe-Hopkins a robbery, it wasn't it was a close fight that just went Calzaghe's way, even if the scorecards were too wide (I had Hopkins edging it btw).
In terms of Italy, there was Vito Antuofermo's controversial draw with Marvin Hagler in... Las Vegas :p
